Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[Nice Squirrel]

As far as "blaming the victim", hopefully we get to examine Michael Brown's history

Unless the police officer intimately knew Brown before the shooting, I think that it is irrelevant even if he posted a selfie of him flipping the bird and wearing a Tupac t-shirt. Or that an eyewitness has a gap in her teeth and has an accent.

But don't let us stop you blame the victim.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Only when obstructing a federal investigation I think.

Interesting. So, the FBI starts investigating it and then when they lie to the FBI investigators, it becomes a matter for the FBI to investigate. I guess Quantico teaches a course about Machiavelli.

The FBI investigates civil rights violations.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

My take on this is that the cop - do we know if he's white or black - lost his cool. If the guy wasn't dead we'd have likely seen a host of charges filed to cover butts and make the case that the police were only doing their jobs. Sad but typical.

And local cops aren't the most professional and highly skilled. That's been my experience.

But it doesn't justify rioting.

 

[Derec]

Black on black crime is the most common kind yet if you go by the media accounts

Citation please.

Look here for homicides.
Note that while the raw number of white on white homicides is slightly higher than black on black homicides the white population in the US is about six times higher than black population, so black-on-black homicide rate, as fraction of population, is still more than five times as high as white-on-white homicide rate.
And black-on-white homicide rate is more than two times higher than white-on-black homicide rate even without adjusting for population sizes.
But that's not the impression you'd get from news media or by listening to hysteria like "there is an open season on black men" referring not to the 2,447 homicides of blacks committed by other blacks but rather to the much smaller 193 homicides committed by whites (or white hispanics for that matter).

 

[Nice Squirrel]

According to the police Brown attacked the police officer. This sentence of yours is as much an intentional misrepresentation of the case as was saying that Trayvon was killed over Skittles, that Renisha was merely knocking on the door to seek help after an accident or that Crawford was shot holding a toy gun.

And you are right "Tray-Von" was killed as he ripped up a sidewalk to bash the head in of Zimmerman who he was stalking. "Ren-Isha" was violently attacking the screen door to get wooden stakes for a murderous rampage.

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Citation please.

Look here for homicides.

And that just disproved your point. Thanks for playing!

 

[Derec]

Unless the police officer intimately knew Brown before the shooting, I think that it is irrelevant even if he posted a selfie of him flipping the bird and wearing a Tupac t-shirt. Or that an eyewitness has a gap in her teeth and has an accent.

The police officer claims Brown attacked him. There are also claims of shoplifting that precipitated the contact with the police in the first place. Surely his history helps establish how likely he was to have done that. If he had disciplinary problems at school involving violence for example, would be relevant as would any prior accusations of theft. His mother already let it slip that he barely graduated high school, but I wonder if his challenges were merely academic or also behavioral.
We do not know that yet, but you can't seriously claims all these questions are irrelevant as to what had happened.

But don't let us stop you blame the victim.

I am not blaming the victim, I am saying that we should wait for the conclusion of the investigation but also that we should get all the pertinent facts, including about the shootee, before forming a conclusion. I thus think Brown's history is very relevant.

 

[Derec]

And you are right "Tray-Von" was killed as he ripped up a sidewalk to bash the head in of Zimmerman who he was stalking. "Ren-Isha" was violently attacking the screen door to get wooden stakes for a murderous rampage.

Even Trayvon's (girl)friend admitted he was seeking to "whoop" Z's "ass". Physical evidence as well as eyewitnesses confirm that Z was on the ground being attacked by Trayvon.
Renisha was drunk out of her mind. That doesn't change the fact that she wasn't merely knocking (even forceful knocking doesn't damage the door or cause visible injuries to one's hands) and wasn't looking for help as the accident in question was three hours earlier and she already refused help.

And that just disproved your point. Thanks for playing!

No I have not. I have proven it.
If you have a city with a population of a million and another city of 100,000 and in the first you have 1200 homicides and in the second you have 1000 homicides, which has a higher homicide rate?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The police officer claims Brown attacked him.

I know that. This is relevant. What isn't relevant is the bullshit you posted below.

There are also claims of shoplifting that precipitated the contact with the police in the first place. Surely his history helps establish how likely he was to have done that. If he had disciplinary problems at school involving violence for example, would be relevant as would any prior accusations of theft. His mother already let it slip that he barely graduated high school, but I wonder if his challenges were merely academic or also behavioral.
We do not know that yet, but you can't seriously claims all these questions are irrelevant as to what had happened.

Please Dr. Derec let's look into his parental issues? And yes, in the American system of justice we can and do discount people's high school record and stupid shit they did in the past.

But don't let us stop you blame the victim.

I am not blaming the victim, I am saying that we should wait for the conclusion of the investigation but also that we should get all the pertinent facts, including about the shootee, before forming a conclusion. I thus think Brown's history is very relevant.

Of course you do.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Even Trayvon's (girl)friend admitted he was seeking to "whoop" Z's "ass".

Exactly, as a expert in hand-to-hand combat he plotted this assault for months. He originally was going to rob the convenience store too but was too high on the marijuana and Black rage and only attempted to steal some ingredients for Purple Dank. He then yelled out in a secret Black language only Negros can hear, "OOOOOOmmmmmBBBAAAA-Cariggie!" which translates as "kill whitey".. and the hunt was on.

Renisha was drunk out of her mind. That doesn't change the fact that she wasn't merely knocking (even forceful knocking doesn't damage the door or cause visible injuries to one's hands) and wasn't looking for help as the accident in question was three hours earlier and she already refused help.

I agree. Like I stated above she too yelled, ""OOOOOOmmmmmBBBAAAA-Cariggie!" as she pounded the screen door into a Zulu spear.

And that just disproved your point. Thanks for playing!

No I have not. I have proven it.

Black on Black murders are the most common, but yet white on white ones have bigger numbers. Yep. Totally. You win.

 

[Derec]

Black on Black murders are the most common, but yet white on white ones have bigger numbers. Yep. Totally. You win.

There is six times as many whites as there are blacks in the US. Yet you have comparable raw numbers.
I do not think you understand how things like homicide rates work.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I had a chuckle on the drive to work today. On NPR they were saying the problem with federal charges is that you have to demonstrate race was a factor in the killing in order to convict. Merely a police coverup to cover their own butts for baseless violence against a civilian isn't enough.

That's because the federal crime is specifically civil rights violations (but it is very inconsistently applied - blacks who attack whites for clearly racial reasons like the LA Four or Jenna Six are generally not being prosecuted on civil rights grounds) while regular assault or murder charges are the bailiwick of the states unless there is a federal connection (like Tim McVeigh bombing a federal building.)

Typically federal charges go one way regarding race because there isn't too much of an endemic problem of blacks being charged and convicted of murder. Back in the good ole days, places where whites could get away with violence against blacks was in large part due to a systemic illness in the local court systems that allowed it to go unpunished.

The Federal Civil Rights angle was played because it was the only way to ensure justice in certain cases.

 

[ZiprHead]

As I understand it, many eye-witnesses claim he was shot from 35 feet away with his hands in the air. The police are not releasing the video of the incident at this time.

 

[Derec]

As I understand it, many eye-witnesses claim he was shot from 35 feet away with his hands in the air. The police are not releasing the video of the incident at this time.

I think the only eyewitnesses were Brown's friend and police officer himself. Obviously, neither are unbiased and disinterested witnesses.
I'd love to see a video but I do not think there is one as I understand the police cruiser in question was not fitted with a dash cam.

 

[Derec]

Typically federal charges go one way regarding race because there isn't too much of an endemic problem of blacks being charged and convicted of murder. Back in the good ole days, places where whites could get away with violence against blacks was in large part due to a systemic illness in the local court systems that allowed it to go unpunished.

The Federal Civil Rights angle was played because it was the only way to ensure justice in certain cases.

That is bullshit. If you use federal government to prosecute so-called "hate crimes" by one race while ignoring those by another is clearly racial discrimination and is not justifiable by what used to happen. It justified federal government getting involved in the first place, but not the glaring racial disparity in prosecuting racially motivated crimes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is interesting to me that - so far at least - we don't have much defense of the police officer in this case. Perhaps, finally, we have a case that is so indisputable and so egregious that none of the usual members are going to try to blame the victim?

No matter what else may or may not have happened, Michael Brown was not only unarmed, not only 30 feet away from the police office when he was murdered, he was putting his arms up and getting down on the ground when he was shot in the face and torso approximately 8 times (after being previously shot twice). All this for the high crime of walking in the street.

You're not seeing defense of the police because it looks wrong.

There are times one should shoot a fleeing suspect but I don't see that this qualifies unless there's more to it that we aren't hearing about.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

http://jezebel.com/this-is-why-were...source=jezebel_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

As a black person in America, it's getting exhausting to still have to explain, in the year 2014, your right to exist in this country. To explain that you are a human being whose value sits no lower than anyone else's. To explain our basic humanity. And perhaps worst of all, to explain exactly why we are outraged.

We shouldn't have to explain why it's not acceptable for unarmed teenagers to be gunned down by the police.

We shouldn't have to explain why even though Mike Brown's life didn't matter to you or a Ferguson police officer, it mattered to someone.

We shouldn't have to explain that the clothes we wear don't protect us against, or make us more susceptible to, violence. Four little girls were bombed in their church dresses and Martin Luther King Jr. was gunned down in a suit and tie.

We shouldn't have to explain that the right to due process—that which was not afforded to Mike Brown—is in the Constitution of the United States of America. In fact, it's in there twice.

Also:

We shouldn't have to explain why the correct response to these tragedies is not, "but what about black on black crime?" 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites and no one ever attempts to undermine any of the senseless violence they suffer.

 

[Derec]

There are times one should shoot a fleeing suspect but I don't see that this qualifies unless there's more to it that we aren't hearing about.

If that is what happened ballistics should be able to confirm it pretty easily. And if that's what happened it would look pretty bad for the cop.

Edited duplicate quote and duplicate reply


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We shouldn't have to explain why the correct response to these tragedies is not, "but what about black on black crime?" 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites and no one ever attempts to undermine any of the senseless violence they suffer.

That completely ignores the fact that black-on-black murder rate is more than 5 times higher than white-on-white murder rate as I was telling you before.

 

[ksen]

Guys, has derec posted anything about how we need to check into the history and childhood upbringing of the police officer yet?

 

[repoman]

Same old story. I think that the fact that many of these youths are not on a career track gives them no fear of a massive future loss of income or social standing of being a party to arson or breaking into and demolishing the store.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Guys, has derec posted anything about how we need to check into the history and childhood upbringing of the police officer yet?

Well, at least the officer isn't running around bragging about it. He reportedly going into protective custody.