Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[Loren Pechtel]

Same old story. I think that the fact that many of these youths are not on a career track gives them no fear of a massive future loss of income or social standing of being a party to arson or breaking into and demolishing the store.

I think there's also an issue of there being a segment of the population that sees jail as a normal part of life arbitrarily handed out by the system rather than punishment for their wrongdoing. The thing is the odds of being caught for any given minor crime are low--they're in a situation where the outcome of committing a crime are normally desirable (after all, why else would they commit the crime) and rarely bad. A low probability of punishment doesn't teach the right lesson and if anything is a recipe for mental illness.

I don't know how to fix the problem, though.

 

[ZiprHead]

I don't know how to fix the problem, though.

Funny, you always seem so sure of everything.

 

[Arctish]

Even Trayvon's (girl)friend admitted he was seeking to "whoop" Z's "ass".

Please stop repeating this lie. You know it isn't true. You know Jeantel's testimony was consistent with Zimmerman's statement in the 911 call that Martin was trying to avoid Zimmerman. You also know that whoop ass quote referred to what Jeantel believed Martin would have done if/when Zimmerman attacked him, and that she said "whoop ass" was different from, and less severe than, the "bashing" the defense claimed Martin gave Zimmerman. She said Martin would have defended himself when Zimmerman attacked by whooping Zimmerman's ass, and that Martin did not attack or bash Zimmerman.

If you're still having trouble understanding Jeantel's dialect I'm sure there are people who can help you parse out her meaning.

 

[RavenSky]

Maybe because we are awaiting the result of the investigation rather than jumping to conclusions like you seem to be doing.

You really shouldn't be talking to yourself in the mirror dude.

 

[RavenSky]

~~ Moderator

 

[RavenSky]

Apparently Ferguson MO police are tear gassing people in their own back yards now, and are forcing reporters out - including threatening at least one reporter with arrest if he didn't leave. Police also requested (& got) a "no-fly-zone" over the community claiming that a police helicopter was shot at, but even the media believes it is to prevent media helicopters from recording what police are doing.

There have been some looting and other stuff that shouldn't happen, but it sounds like the majority have been non-violent peaceful protests that have been tear gassed anyway.

 

[Toni]

Obviously, looting and burning stores is wrong. Brown's family and activists like Al Sharpton have said so, in no uncertain terms. But, there's also Spike Lee's point from when Do the Right Thing came out, about how many people who saw the movie were more upset by Mookie smashing Sal's window, than by the cops choking Radio Raheem to death.

Are we supposed to know who "Mookie" and the others are?

Well, yes. The references are to a well known film by a well known director/producer/writer/actor. If one doesn't know who Mookie and the others are, that information is easily available using a decent internet search engine (i.e. not internet explorer although that might get you there as well.) There is almost certainly at least one Wikipedia entry about the film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_the_Right_Thing


Not only is this film famous and well known within the monolithic black community but plenty of white folks have seen it, too or are at least familiar with the film. It even won an Academy Award for best original screen play.

Anyway, if I don't know the references to a film character, I look them up. Or alternatively, I just don't reply because, as the saying goes, I prefer to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. But that's just me and how I do things.

 

[Toni]

Why are you surprised by that? It's not bad when you do things to black people. You can even kill them if you like. However, if a black person does anything, it is automatically bad. If you have a problem with that, then you're a politically correct person who is persecuting me just because I'm white. Why do you hate white people? And why do you hate our freedom? [/conservolibertarian]

Nonsense. It's exactly the opposite. Black on black crime is the most common kind yet if you go by the media accounts you'd think a black person is most at risk from whites because those are the cases that receive national coverage, lead to riots and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson show up to shake down big bucks. Black on black shootings? Meh. Black on white shootings? Who cares, and besides we do not want to be perceived as racists. But any time there is a white person who shoots a black person there is an immediate feeding frenzy and assumptions are made that the reason for the shooting was racial.

Huh. When I turn on the major media news, the impression I get is that most crime is committed by black people against white people. I guess we're seeing more about white folks shooting black folks, or at least unarmed black teenagers and young black men is because it seems to be happening with an alarming frequency.

 

[Derec]

Well, yes. The references are to a well known film by a well known director/producer/writer/actor.

Tyler Perry's Medea Does the Right Thing?
No, of course I know of Spike Lee. I think he is a racist and thus choose not to give him any more money by watching his movies.

If one doesn't know who Mookie and the others are, that information is easily available using a decent internet search engine (i.e. not internet explorer although that might get you there as well.)

MSIE is a search engine? But yes, of course one could look it up, but my point of posting the question is that your tone assumed that everybody would know who these characters are. As if you had talked about Luke, Leia, Yoda and Han Solo or Jerry, George, Kramer and Elaine.

Not only is this film famous and well known within the monolithic black community but plenty of white folks have seen it, too or are at least familiar with the film. It even won an Academy Award for best original screen play.

It may be a cult film among the "monolithic black community" but the movie or its characters are not household names in the US as a whole.

Anyway, if I don't know the references to a film character, I look them up. Or alternatively, I just don't reply because, as the saying goes, I prefer to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. But that's just me and how I do things.

Not knowing the characters from a niche movie from a quarter century ago is being a fool?

 

[Derec]

Huh. When I turn on the major media news, the impression I get is that most crime is committed by black people against white people. I guess we're seeing more about white folks shooting black folks, or at least unarmed black teenagers and young black men is because it seems to be happening with an alarming frequency.

Not my experience. When there is a black perp and white victim the race of the perp is downplayed or even outright hidden. When it's the reverse it's emphasized. That leads to silly hysteria that there is an "open season on blacks" by white people.

 

[Derec]

Maybe because we are awaiting the result of the investigation rather than jumping to conclusions like you seem to be doing.

You really shouldn't be talking to yourself in the mirror dude.

I am not jumping to conclusions. I do not know whether the police officer was in the wrong or not. But your side, including the local state rep who called it "murder" and done "only because he was black" and DailyKos who called it an "execution" are the ones jumping to conclusions by prejudging the case.

I think we should wait until the investigation is done. I also think Michael Brown's background is highly relevant. That is not jumping to conclusions, just seeking more information.

 

[Toni]

You really shouldn't be talking to yourself in the mirror dude.

I am not jumping to conclusions. I do not know whether the police officer was in the wrong or not. But your side, including the local state rep who called it "murder" and done "only because he was black" and DailyKos who called it an "execution" are the ones jumping to conclusions by prejudging the case.

I think we should wait until the investigation is done. I also think Michael Brown's background is highly relevant. That is not jumping to conclusions, just seeking more information.

Michael Brown was an 18 year old recent high school graduate who was about to start his tech college program in HVAC.

I think that the background of the police officer who shot Brown is at least as relevant. More so, actually.

 

[Toni]

Tyler Perry's Medea Does the Right Thing?
No, of course I know of Spike Lee. I think he is a racist and thus choose not to give him any more money by watching his movies.

So, one way to handle this situation would be to look it up in Wikipedia, ask a question about the reference or simply not comment on the reference. None of those options is insulting and the first two have the side benefit of potentially gaining information.

If one doesn't know who Mookie and the others are, that information is easily available using a decent internet search engine (i.e. not internet explorer although that might get you there as well.)

MSIE is a search engine? But yes, of course one could look it up, but my point of posting the question is that your tone assumed that everybody would know who these characters are. As if you had talked about Luke, Leia, Yoda and Han Solo or Jerry, George, Kramer and Elaine.

I never watched Seinfeld. But I know who Jerry, Kramer and Elaine are. I fly under the same geek flag as all those devotees of Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTR, etc, and a few other geek flags as well.

Not only is this film famous and well known within the monolithic black community but plenty of white folks have seen it, too or are at least familiar with the film. It even won an Academy Award for best original screen play.

It may be a cult film among the "monolithic black community" but the movie or its characters are not household names in the US as a whole.

Just because you are not familiar with characters from films doesn't mean that those character names are not household names in the U.S. as a whole. Rather than simply being a cult film (surely it left 'cult film' status 20 years ago), it not only received an academy award (they show the awards on tv) but is well regarded by most film critics, appearing on the best film lists of many main stream media including NYT and Variety.

Anyway, if I don't know the references to a film character, I look them up. Or alternatively, I just don't reply because, as the saying goes, I prefer to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. But that's just me and how I do things.

Not knowing the characters from a niche movie from a quarter century ago is being a fool?

I wasn't referring to you as a fool in the least. And still am not, although you are clinging to the notion that Do the Right Thing is a niche film. Personally I find it foolish of me if I don't bother to check out references I might not understand or ask questions to help me understand--and go ahead and shine a big light on the fact that I am too lazy to make that much effort. But as I said: that's me and how I do things.

 

[RavenSky]

You really shouldn't be talking to yourself in the mirror dude.

I am not jumping to conclusions. I do not know whether the police officer was in the wrong or not. But your side, including the local state rep who called it "murder" and done "only because he was black" and DailyKos who called it an "execution" are the ones jumping to conclusions by prejudging the case.

I think we should wait until the investigation is done. I also think Michael Brown's background is highly relevant. That is not jumping to conclusions, just seeking more information.

Gee, I control Daily Kos and local state reps!!! damn I'm fucking powerful! Now if only I was powerful enough to make Derec stop posting stupid shit.

Bottom line, Derec - you absolutely are the one who ALWAyS jumps to immediate conclusions, always on the basis of gender and/or race. The ONLY reason you want to wait for more information in this case is that you haven't yet found some right-wing rag publishing enough made up crap about Michael Brown for you to *conclude* Michael Brown was a thug who deserved to die. But it's coming... everyone here knows it. So until then, don't try to pretend otherwise because it makes you look ridiculous.

 

[laughing dog]

I think we should wait until the investigation is done. I also think Michael Brown's background is highly relevant. That is not jumping to conclusions, just seeking more information.

Michael Brown's background is immaterial to what happened unless there is some actual disinterested evidence that Mr. Brown and the police officer had some prior history that is relevant. Which would mean you should also what to know the police officer's background. Funny, how that did not crop up in your posts. Hmmm.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Huh. When I turn on the major media news, the impression I get is that most crime is committed by black people against white people. I guess we're seeing more about white folks shooting black folks, or at least unarmed black teenagers and young black men is because it seems to be happening with an alarming frequency.

Not my experience. When there is a black perp and white victim the race of the perp is downplayed or even outright hidden. When it's the reverse it's emphasized. That leads to silly hysteria that there is an "open season on blacks" by white people.

Really? That is never the case here.

 

[RavenSky]

I wonder if this is the type of "background" Derec is waiting for?

Black Residents In Ferguson, Missouri, Are Stopped And Arrested Far More Than Whites. But a higher percentage of white residents have contraband, according to a racial profiling report from the Missouri Attorney General’s Office.

Black residents make up 67.4% of the population of Ferguson MO, yet:

...blacks represent 86% of all traffic stops last year. And despite representing nearly a third of Ferguson’s population, whites only made up 12.7% of the stops performed by Ferguson police. The remaining stops involved people of other races.

The report reveals that there were 521 arrests in 2013. Of those, 483, or 92.7%, involved blacks. A mere 6.9% involved whites, according to the report.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/blacks-overwhelmingly-get-stopped-by-the-police-in-ferguson

According to the report issued by the Attorney General's office, whites are searched only 6.85% of the time, compared to 12.13% for blacks, yet whites are found to have "contraband" 34.04% of the time vs 21.71% for blacks. More interesting, however, is the fact that whites are then arrested in only 5.25% of the stops but blacks are arrested 10.43% of the time they are stopped.

The report includes a "disparity index" wherein a 1.0 means no disparity between population percentage and proportion of stops. Disparity index for whites = .38 Disparity indexes for Hispanic, Asian, American Indian and "other" are .37, .37, .41, and .35 respectively. Disparity index for blacks in Ferguson MO is 1.37

http://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/2013/reports/161.pdf

 

[Sabine Grant]

Not only the background of the involved LEO should be scrutinized but also which mentality may have been at play affecting St Louis County Police. If the 08/12/14 TRMS investigative journalism report is accurate, Sgt. Daniel O Neil (who revealed his name publicly) would have been the whistle blower regarding a Lt. remarks addressing "arresting more African Americans", "let's have a Black day" etc.... When he identified himself to Internal Affairs and brought forth his testimony, that is when retaliative measures in his Dept. started.

Worth watching the transcript video of 08/12/14 which the first part covers the above :

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I wonder if this is the type of "background" Derec is waiting for?



Black residents make up 67.4% of the population of Ferguson MO, yet:

...blacks represent 86% of all traffic stops last year. And despite representing nearly a third of Ferguson’s population, whites only made up 12.7% of the stops performed by Ferguson police. The remaining stops involved people of other races.

The report reveals that there were 521 arrests in 2013. Of those, 483, or 92.7%, involved blacks. A mere 6.9% involved whites, according to the report.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/blacks-overwhelmingly-get-stopped-by-the-police-in-ferguson

According to the report issued by the Attorney General's office, whites are searched only 6.85% of the time, compared to 12.13% for blacks, yet whites are found to have "contraband" 34.04% of the time vs 21.71% for blacks. More interesting, however, is the fact that whites are then arrested in only 5.25% of the stops but blacks are arrested 10.43% of the time they are stopped.

The report includes a "disparity index" wherein a 1.0 means no disparity between population percentage and proportion of stops. Disparity index for whites = .38 Disparity indexes for Hispanic, Asian, American Indian and "other" are .37, .37, .41, and .35 respectively. Disparity index for blacks in Ferguson MO is 1.37

http://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/2013/reports/161.pdf

No, this is not what Derec is looking for. This is what Derec will be running away from or trying desperately to deny.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

According to the report issued by the Attorney General's office, whites are searched only 6.85% of the time, compared to 12.13% for blacks, yet whites are found to have "contraband" 34.04% of the time vs 21.71% for blacks. More interesting, however, is the fact that whites are then arrested in only 5.25% of the stops but blacks are arrested 10.43% of the time they are stopped.

The report includes a "disparity index" wherein a 1.0 means no disparity between population percentage and proportion of stops. Disparity index for whites = .38 Disparity indexes for Hispanic, Asian, American Indian and "other" are .37, .37, .41, and .35 respectively. Disparity index for blacks in Ferguson MO is 1.37

http://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/2013/reports/161.pdf

This doesn't prove discrimination. It's not like we are dealing with random things.

When they find whites in drug territory it's usually an easy bust, they'll see the buy and then scoop up the buyer. Basically 100% chance of contraband. There's no corresponding easy bust for blacks.

And *WHY* are they arrested? How many are for outstanding warrants?