Tell an offensive joke, go to jail

[LordKiran]

So, if I have my scorecard right: Higgins has outed himself as a religious consevative and Don Don is headed to a Scottish prison for offending Religious people?

Hey, I used to be a member of a Jewish gang. We were called the Four Skinheads.

But real skinheads and Nazis are stupid and crazy. I would find it personally difficult not to punch one in the face...i guess remembering how they are mentally ill might help to be tolerant. Also I find it difficult to blame governments banning them. We ban al Qaeda. Same thing.

Mental illness? Come on Don, I have no particular fondness for the neo-nazis but that doesn't stop me from having a humanized understanding of them. A lot of them are failures in their personal lives and so this is kind of all they have. I wonder how many would kill themselves or others if they didn't have this neo-nazi-ethno-collectivism thing going for them and I don't even mean any of this in a derisive way.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, if I have my scorecard right: Higgins has outed himself as a religious consevative and Don Don is headed to a Scottish prison for offending Religious people?

Hey, I used to be a member of a Jewish gang. We were called the Four Skinheads.

But real skinheads and Nazis are stupid and crazy. I would find it personally difficult not to punch one in the face...i guess remembering how they are mentally ill might help to be tolerant. Also I find it difficult to blame governments banning them. We ban al Qaeda. Same thing.

Mental illness? Come on Don, I have no particular fondness for the neo-nazis but that doesn't stop me from having a humanized understanding of them.

Funny, because they don't seem to want to do that with the Jewish.

 

[LordKiran]

Mental illness? Come on Don, I have no particular fondness for the neo-nazis but that doesn't stop me from having a humanized understanding of them.

Funny, because they don't seem to want to do that with the Jewish.

No, but is that really the type of person we're going to start basing our own behaviors on? Tsk, tsk, tsk...I'd like to at least try to rise above that if nothing else.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It sounds like he was making fun of Nazis.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldyDb-fWSps[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Mental illness? Come on Don, I have no particular fondness for the neo-nazis but that doesn't stop me from having a humanized understanding of them.

Funny, because they don't seem to want to do that with the Jewish.

No, but is that really the type of person we're going to start basing our own behaviors on? Tsk, tsk, tsk...I'd like to at least try to rise above that if nothing else.

No. I think that protection of free speech doesn't include genocide.

 

[dismal]

No, but is that really the type of person we're going to start basing our own behaviors on? Tsk, tsk, tsk...I'd like to at least try to rise above that if nothing else.

No. I think that protection of free speech doesn't include genocide.

Well, that's good but also irrelevant because "speech" and "genocide" are not the same thing.

 

[repoman]

No, but is that really the type of person we're going to start basing our own behaviors on? Tsk, tsk, tsk...I'd like to at least try to rise above that if nothing else.

No. I think that protection of free speech doesn't include genocide.

This is a good bit from a great misanthropist, that uses Jews for a larger analysis

 

[The Colourful Jester]

How long do we wait for Mr Pies arrest?

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/ti2bVS40cz0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ronburgundy]

The UK has just set a precedent by convicting a man of a jailable hate-crime for posting a video of a comedy bit where he secretly trained his girlfriend's dog to give a Nazi salute when asked "Do you want to gas the Jews?"
Part of the bit included showing the dog seemingly intently watching footage of Hitler rallies.

To avoid red-herrings about this particular guy's political views, they have no relevance to the case.
The judge said that it is irrelevant whether the expression was sincere or if it was done for comedic effect. The ruling was based on the mere fact that was likely to be offensive to some Jews made it a crime for which he now faces possible jail time (he already spent a night in jail when first arrested for it).

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925

Not occur to him to use Seig Heil or some other less disturbing thing to get the dog to do a salute, instead of "Do you want to gas the Jews?" I'm not losing sleep over this.

He did also use "Seig Heil". Ironically, many Germans didn't lose sleep over the Nazis initial actions either for your exact same reasons that well, I don't like that/those people anyway.

The law is all about precedent and the rationale given, which in this case was simply that because it is likely to be offensive to some people, it is a crime. Again, ironically the very type of rationale the Nazis used to exert authoritarian control over thought and political dissent. Your comment is the epitome of someone with no regard for the principle of free speech and only caring when the speech you agree with is punished.

 

[repoman]

The UK has just set a precedent by convicting a man of a jailable hate-crime for posting a video of a comedy bit where he secretly trained his girlfriend's dog to give a Nazi salute when asked "Do you want to gas the Jews?"
Part of the bit included showing the dog seemingly intently watching footage of Hitler rallies.

To avoid red-herrings about this particular guy's political views, they have no relevance to the case.
The judge said that it is irrelevant whether the expression was sincere or if it was done for comedic effect. The ruling was based on the mere fact that was likely to be offensive to some Jews made it a crime for which he now faces possible jail time (he already spent a night in jail when first arrested for it).

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925

Not occur to him to use Seig Heil or some other less disturbing thing to get the dog to do a salute, instead of "Do you want to gas the Jews?" I'm not losing sleep over this.

He did also use "Seig Heil". Ironically, many Germans didn't lose sleep over the Nazis initial actions either for your exact same reasons that well, I don't like that/those people anyway.

The law is all about precedent and the rationale given, which in this case was simply that because it is likely to be offensive to some people, it is a crime. Again, ironically the very type of rationale the Nazis used to exert authoritarian control over thought and political dissent. Your comment is the epitome of someone with no regard for the principle of free speech and only caring when the speech you agree with is punished.

Not a fan of the title of this video, but this is THE man who brought the charges (or at least was used) against Meecham. It is really worth listening to his rationale about other thing, for good or ill.



Is it possible that he may be hypocritical in the way he treats Israel and Scotland, hmm?

 

[ronburgundy]

Well in the meter-o-comedy, this is dead on the left side of 'not a joke'.

Training a dog to give a salute when asking them if they want Jews to be victims of another genocide is funny only to people that think Nazism is funny.

Want Nazi funny, talk to Mel Brooks. "Two coats!" Funny.

That this is rare speaks well for the tolerance of the police and courts. That it happens at all may be a concern - but it is possible that the balance between maintaining public order and freedom of speech does not, in fact, lie at the ultimate extreme end of that spectrum. Tolerating intolerance is sometimes a self destructive approach for those who want to live in a tolerant society.

I'd agree with this. The OP opens up as if this were some sort of over reaction to a joke. This wasn't a joke. Anti-Semitism isn't a fucking joke.

There is no evidence that he was trying to spread anti-semitism and the court did not convict him on that presumption. He was convicted solely for saying something that others might find offensive, and the judge said even if it was intended only as a joke, that would have no relevance to it being a crime. IOW, the judge ruled that offensive jokes are a crime and therefore the defense that this was a joke is moot.

And by the way, most comedy about Hitler and the Nazi has been attacked as offensive, including Mel Brook's The Producers and various Monty Python sketches.

 

[ronburgundy]

No, but is that really the type of person we're going to start basing our own behaviors on? Tsk, tsk, tsk...I'd like to at least try to rise above that if nothing else.

No. I think that protection of free speech doesn't include genocide.

No speech is genocide and genocide is not simply speech. And this speech did not by any rational analysis even suggest that genocide was a good thing. If anything, it makes Nazis look like trained dogs, mindlessly saluting for "treats".

 

[repoman]

Not "Hate Crimes", but a parallel system of "Hate Incidents"

However, the uploader (who is in Ireland) by using the phrase "vibrant enrichment" could be found guilty.

It is a dog whistle for this type of meme

 

[Lion IRC]

It sounds like he was making fun of Nazis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldyDb-fWSps

LOL
I loved the capuchimonkey doing the nazi salute in Raiders of The Lost Ark

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/l8dOczp

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The UK has just set a precedent by convicting a man of a jailable hate-crime for posting a video of a comedy bit where he secretly trained his girlfriend's dog to give a Nazi salute when asked "Do you want to gas the Jews?"
Part of the bit included showing the dog seemingly intently watching footage of Hitler rallies.

To avoid red-herrings about this particular guy's political views, they have no relevance to the case.
The judge said that it is irrelevant whether the expression was sincere or if it was done for comedic effect. The ruling was based on the mere fact that was likely to be offensive to some Jews made it a crime for which he now faces possible jail time (he already spent a night in jail when first arrested for it).

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925

Not occur to him to use Seig Heil or some other less disturbing thing to get the dog to do a salute, instead of "Do you want to gas the Jews?" I'm not losing sleep over this.

He did also use "Seig Heil". Ironically, many Germans didn't lose sleep over the Nazis initial actions either for your exact same reasons that well, I don't like that/those people anyway.

The law is all about precedent and the rationale given, which in this case was simply that because it is likely to be offensive to some people, it is a crime. Again, ironically the very type of rationale the Nazis used to exert authoritarian control over thought and political dissent. Your comment is the epitome of someone with no regard for the principle of free speech and only caring when the speech you agree with is punished.

Exactly. I said this exact thing in my thread “People that disagree with me should be jailed”.

However, in the real world, there is a difference between the importance of free speech and looking the other way when people propagate flagrant anti-semitism. “Who wants to gas the Jews” is beyond repugnant. The attempted normalization of anti-semitism is alarming and should be stopped in its tracks.

I’m sorry if you think that not defending such an ideal is some sort of bad epitome. Personally, in my opinion, the Nazis are the worst mankind ever managed to shit out of their brains.

 

[bilby]

Nuance exists. The law is not mathematics or physics, where there is one right answer and any deviation from it is erroneous.

Tolerating intolerance is the death of toleration. As long as this stuff isn't routine, I think it is preferable to defending Nazis in the name of some absurd adherence to absolute and inviolable principles.

Absolute freedom of speech, like any 'absolute', has serious flaws; Not least of which is that it enables people to turn their brains off.

If you live your life as a slave to absolute and inviolable principles, then you are barely living at all.

I don't hold any truths to be self evident; nor does 95% of the world.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nazism lost its right to free speech because of their actions between 1939 and 1945, primarily the mass production of execution of civilians. Fuck the Nazis.

 

[dismal]

He did also use "Seig Heil". Ironically, many Germans didn't lose sleep over the Nazis initial actions either for your exact same reasons that well, I don't like that/those people anyway.

The law is all about precedent and the rationale given, which in this case was simply that because it is likely to be offensive to some people, it is a crime. Again, ironically the very type of rationale the Nazis used to exert authoritarian control over thought and political dissent. Your comment is the epitome of someone with no regard for the principle of free speech and only caring when the speech you agree with is punished.

Exactly. I said this exact thing in my thread “People that disagree with me should be jailed”.

However, in the real world, there is a difference between the importance of free speech and looking the other way when people propagate flagrant anti-semitism. “Who wants to gas the Jews” is beyond repugnant. The attempted normalization of anti-semitism is alarming and should be stopped in its tracks.

I’m sorry if you think that not defending such an ideal is some sort of bad epitome. Personally, in my opinion, the Nazis are the worst mankind ever managed to shit out of their brains.

Tip: if you want to empower the government to punish speech you find offensive because you assume the government will always agree with you on what's offensive you're the Nazi. People without the fascist streak are able to tolerate that people who say something others find offensive may not end up in jail.

 

[Trausti]

Nazism lost its right to free speech because of their actions between 1939 and 1945, primarily the mass production of execution of civilians. Fuck the Nazis.

Ditto the communists and the socialists.

 

[dismal]

Nazism lost its right to free speech because of their actions between 1939 and 1945, primarily the mass production of execution of civilians. Fuck the Nazis.

Ditto the communists and the socialists.

Let's not forget the Democrats. What those fuckers did during the civil war...