Socialism Is Always Doomed to Fail

[arkirk]

You cannot make any comments on "all economics".

You don't know many economic theories and most can never be tried because of the dominance of the systems that exist and own the natural means of production. The minerals and the commodities like fertile land, and the minds and habits of the population.

We are stuck with this piece of junk of system that is just a casino for rich people and a death and misery lottery for others.

At this point it would take incredible violence to rid ourselves of this monstrosity.

It is a sore point with Capitalists and even some socialists. The environment owns us, all our money, the air we breathe, all the land and animals, oceans...in short everything. If we were a little smarter we would attempt to serve not the master, the owner, or the oligarch, but instead the principles that help our environment remain a fit place for humans to abide.

Given that 7 billion humans are living to the highest average life expectancy ever before achieved in human history, with the highest achieved by the wealthy capitalist countries, I'd say the current environment is the healthiest and fittest environment for humans that has ever been achieved.

Axulus: Have you been paying attention to the news? American life expectancy is decreasing. More than 2 billion people are food insecure. The entire middle east is war torn. There are refugees everywhere. Capitalism is NOT A SYSTEM. Instead, it is a license for exploitation of the unfinancialized parts of the planet. There is starvation in Yemen because the U.S. is cooperating with the Saudis to bomb the country into submission. Capitalism has a lot of bad things about it. One that is rather clear is that it serves warmongers very well.

 

[barbos]

Well. capitalism is the best system to increase entropy.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Given that 7 billion humans are living to the highest average life expectancy ever before achieved in human history, with the highest achieved by the wealthy capitalist countries, I'd say the current environment is the healthiest and fittest environment for humans that has ever been achieved.

Axulus: Have you been paying attention to the news? American life expectancy is decreasing. More than 2 billion people are food insecure. The entire middle east is war torn. There are refugees everywhere. Capitalism is NOT A SYSTEM. Instead, it is a license for exploitation of the unfinancialized parts of the planet. There is starvation in Yemen because the U.S. is cooperating with the Saudis to bomb the country into submission. Capitalism has a lot of bad things about it. One that is rather clear is that it serves warmongers very well.

War has been around since pretty much day 1 of human existence, capitalism is getting almost to a point to shed it completely because we trade now instead of fight for resources. Yemen wasn't a paradise and then capitalism came around.

 

[Trausti]

Given that 7 billion humans are living to the highest average life expectancy ever before achieved in human history, with the highest achieved by the wealthy capitalist countries, I'd say the current environment is the healthiest and fittest environment for humans that has ever been achieved.

Axulus: Have you been paying attention to the news? American life expectancy is decreasing.

Obesity, opioid crisis

More than 2 billion people are food insecure.

But enough about Venezuela.

The entire middle east is war torn.

Yeah, that's never happened before.

There are refugees everywhere.

All trying to get into capitalist countries.

 

[steve_bank]

Well. capitalism is the best system to increase entropy.

From a thermodynamics view the economy is an entropy reverser. Just like a refregerator.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

There are refugees everywhere.

All trying to get into capitalist countries.

like Germany and Sweden.

 

[barbos]

Well. capitalism is the best system to increase entropy.

From a thermodynamics view the economy is an entropy reverser. Just like a refregerator.

Not really and refrigerator actually increase entropy of refrigerator+room system.

 

[Trausti]

There are refugees everywhere.

All trying to get into capitalist countries.

like Germany and Sweden.

When you offer them generous benefits at taxpayer expense, it's worth passing through all those other safe countries.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

like Germany and Sweden.

When you offer them generous benefits at taxpayer expense, it's worth passing through all those other safe countries.

I thought you wrote it was the capitalism not the socialism they were seeking:

All trying to get into capitalist countries.

You have a good sense of humor. Very funny op.

 

[arkirk]

Given that 7 billion humans are living to the highest average life expectancy ever before achieved in human history, with the highest achieved by the wealthy capitalist countries, I'd say the current environment is the healthiest and fittest environment for humans that has ever been achieved.

Axulus: Have you been paying attention to the news? American life expectancy is decreasing. More than 2 billion people are food insecure. The entire middle east is war torn. There are refugees everywhere. Capitalism is NOT A SYSTEM. Instead, it is a license for exploitation of the unfinancialized parts of the planet. There is starvation in Yemen because the U.S. is cooperating with the Saudis to bomb the country into submission. Capitalism has a lot of bad things about it. One that is rather clear is that it serves warmongers very well.

War has been around since pretty much day 1 of human existence, capitalism is getting almost to a point to shed it completely because we trade now instead of fight for resources. Yemen wasn't a paradise and then capitalism came around.

You have to be kidding! You just don't seem able to see past the end of your nose. You never address the problems. You just point to them and say...they're not us. It hurts a bit to even look at the shit our country and our corporations are doing world wide. War mongering is still high on the Capitalist wish list...and extra $160 billion just this year. Our increase is almost double Russia's whole military budget. Capitalism is a system amassing money in private hands. Selling bombs and guns can do this very nicely and we cannot make our government stop...because it is owned by war industries. War does not have to be. And it better slow to a stop pretty soon because we are experiencing environmental feedback from it...even if we are heartless and uncaring about the damage we do elsewhere.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The "collective" is meant to stand for "worker-owned" companies with no "outside" owners. There are some employee owned ESOP type of companies in the US. But the average socialist would not consider Apple to be a socialist company!

But that means Jason's definition is wrong, not bilby's which was bilby's point. Btw, I think family-owned businesses where the workers are the owners and the owners are the workers, like some small farms and some small mom and pop shops are socialist according to your definition.

It simply doesn't compare, except maybe in the case of employee owned companies. Maybe not even then, since in the old forum I started a thread asking if employee owned companies are an example of Socialism and was told that they aren't.

Owning stock does mean you own a portion of the company, in direct proportion to the amount of stock owned. Only the stockholders own the company, not the general public as in the case of textbook Socialism. It is pooled ownership, not collective ownership, and some pool members own more of the company than other pool members.

 

[coloradoatheist]

War has been around since pretty much day 1 of human existence, capitalism is getting almost to a point to shed it completely because we trade now instead of fight for resources. Yemen wasn't a paradise and then capitalism came around.

You have to be kidding! You just don't seem able to see past the end of your nose. You never address the problems. You just point to them and say...they're not us. It hurts a bit to even look at the shit our country and our corporations are doing world wide. War mongering is still high on the Capitalist wish list...and extra $160 billion just this year. Our increase is almost double Russia's whole military budget. Capitalism is a system amassing money in private hands. Selling bombs and guns can do this very nicely and we cannot make our government stop...because it is owned by war industries. War does not have to be. And it better slow to a stop

Except war isn't inherent to capitalism, it's inherent to humans and we are striving to get rid of war long term and hopefully those places will get there, but will be a commitment to improving their economy and embracing capitalism and getting rid of the religion over time. The biggest issue with capitalism is that's too successful.

 

[arkirk]

There are refugees everywhere.

All trying to get into capitalist countries.

like Germany and Sweden.

They are trying to get away from the bombing and other dangers of war the capitalists are raining down on their home country. Quit playing dumb.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

War has been around since pretty much day 1 of human existence, capitalism is getting almost to a point to shed it completely because we trade now instead of fight for resources. Yemen wasn't a paradise and then capitalism came around.

You have to be kidding! You just don't seem able to see past the end of your nose. You never address the problems. You just point to them and say...they're not us. It hurts a bit to even look at the shit our country and our corporations are doing world wide. War mongering is still high on the Capitalist wish list...and extra $160 billion just this year. Our increase is almost double Russia's whole military budget. Capitalism is a system amassing money in private hands. Selling bombs and guns can do this very nicely and we cannot make our government stop...because it is owned by war industries. War does not have to be. And it better slow to a stop

Except war isn't inherent to capitalism, it's inherent to humans and we are striving to get rid of war long term and hopefully those places will get there, but will be a commitment to improving their economy and embracing capitalism and getting rid of the religion over time. The biggest issue with capitalism is that's too successful.

Are we talking about Central America, the issues with capitalism in the drug trade?

 

[untermensche]

You cannot make any comments on "all economics".

You don't know many economic theories and most can never be tried because of the dominance of the systems that exist and own the natural means of production. The minerals and the commodities like fertile land, and the minds and habits of the population.

We are stuck with this piece of junk of system that is just a casino for rich people and a death and misery lottery for others.

At this point it would take incredible violence to rid ourselves of this monstrosity.

It is a sore point with Capitalists and even some socialists. The environment owns us, all our money, the air we breathe, all the land and animals, oceans...in short everything. If we were a little smarter we would attempt to serve not the master, the owner, or the oligarch, but instead the principles that help our environment remain a fit place for humans to abide.

Given that 7 billion humans are living to the highest average life expectancy ever before achieved in human history, with the highest achieved by the wealthy capitalist countries, I'd say the current environment is the healthiest and fittest environment for humans that has ever been achieved.

Humans have progressed in all systems.

Humans would have progressed when they entered the Industrial Revolution no matter what.

Progress was inevitable.

But Colonialism and child labor in slave shops was not.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Except war isn't inherent to capitalism, it's inherent to humans and we are striving to get rid of war long term and hopefully those places will get there, but will be a commitment to improving their economy and embracing capitalism and getting rid of the religion over time. The biggest issue with capitalism is that's too successful.

Are we talking about Central America, the issues with capitalism in the drug trade?

Not quite sure what you are asking. Fighting drugs would be a govt limitation of the free market.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Given that 7 billion humans are living to the highest average life expectancy ever before achieved in human history, with the highest achieved by the wealthy capitalist countries, I'd say the current environment is the healthiest and fittest environment for humans that has ever been achieved.

Humans have progressed in all systems.

Humans would have progressed when they entered the Industrial Revolution no matter what.

Progress was inevitable.

But Colonialism and child labor in slave shops was not.

The Industrial revolution was built on the ideals of capitalism and the beginning of it.

Child labor or sweat shops were because the previous systems were so bad that these alternatives were better than what was there.

 

[untermensche]

Given that 7 billion humans are living to the highest average life expectancy ever before achieved in human history, with the highest achieved by the wealthy capitalist countries, I'd say the current environment is the healthiest and fittest environment for humans that has ever been achieved.

Humans have progressed in all systems.

Humans would have progressed when they entered the Industrial Revolution no matter what.

Progress was inevitable.

But Colonialism and child labor in slave shops was not.

The Industrial revolution was built on the ideals of capitalism and the beginning of it.

Child labor or sweat shops were because the previous systems were so bad that these alternatives were better than what was there.

The Industrial Revolution was a part of human progress that became inevitable due to the progress made during slavery and monarchy.

It just so happened that a primitive system like capitalism was dominant when this turning point in human history occurred.

And because, by sheer chance, capitalism was dominant we see the insane brutality of Colonialism and child labor and slave labor of all kinds even after slavery was abolished in law.

Capitalism when it begins is just slavery where the master does not have to care about or care for the slave. It was more efficient slavery.

It was made tolerable in the US because of the blood spilled by unions, by socialists.

Capitalism still exists simply because of the power it attained by being dominant during the Industrial and then Technological Revolutions.

Pure chance.

Not because the system is even good.

 

[arkirk]

Given that 7 billion humans are living to the highest average life expectancy ever before achieved in human history, with the highest achieved by the wealthy capitalist countries, I'd say the current environment is the healthiest and fittest environment for humans that has ever been achieved.

Humans have progressed in all systems.

Humans would have progressed when they entered the Industrial Revolution no matter what.

Progress was inevitable.

But Colonialism and child labor in slave shops was not.

The Industrial revolution was built on the ideals of capitalism and the beginning of it.

Child labor or sweat shops were because the previous systems were so bad that these alternatives were better than what was there.

You are wrong again, Colorado Atheist. The industrial revolution had child laborers picking clinkers out of feed to steel mills and working inhuman shifts in slaughterhouses. Capitalism has NO IDEALS..UNLESS LUST FOR MONEY AND POWER ARE IDEALS.

 

[coloradoatheist]

The Industrial revolution was built on the ideals of capitalism and the beginning of it.

Child labor or sweat shops were because the previous systems were so bad that these alternatives were better than what was there.

You are wrong again, Colorado Atheist. The industrial revolution had child laborers picking clinkers out of feed to steel mills and working inhuman shifts in slaughterhouses. Capitalism has NO IDEALS..UNLESS LUST FOR MONEY AND POWER ARE IDEALS.

Huh? Child labor existed because that alternative to it was worse than the labor they had to do.