There are No Conscientious Explanations to Disprove the Proof for God and Jesus Being God

[Cobalt]

Fact: Jesus is the most documented person in antiquity more than any 10 figures combined. If He didn't exist, neither did Aristotle, Julius Caesar, Plato, Tiberius. Doublestandards show something is wrong with you.

We know legend theory is impossible because the Apostles preached the eyewitness testimony from the beginning in which the first churches were setup. Paul converted 2 years after the cross, spent 15 days with Peter, and spent time with James and John also eyewitnesses.

Almost all scholars who do accredited or peer review journal work on the resurrection agree the Apostles truly believe they saw Jesus alive from the dead. I accept that too because the evidence is overwhelming.

Where scholars argue lots after that is with no really agreed upon naturalistic explanation. Nothing really ever sticks as a naturalistic explanation to account for their eyewitness testimony in various group settings because group hallucinations are impossible and people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie.

Ah, here we see a subtle argument by copy & paste. This appears to be mindless reiteration of some Gary Habermas fan fiction. I've seen more sophisticated posts from bots.

 

[untermensche]

I would love to see the standard that shows proof of what people who may or may not have existed thousands of years ago believed.

The most documented people in antiquity most certainly existed. Please see the 27 books of the NT for the proof Jesus is God.

I've read the entire Bible. More than once.

It is filled with claims, but no proof.

And of course, the bigger the claim the more proof is required.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I have personally met people who truly believe they've successfully performed a rain dance.
I have personally met people who truly believe they've met ghosts.

You've never met a group of people who said they saw someone together who was alive from the dead.

Actually, i have.
So shut up your damned superiority complex and show some evidence for your claims.

 

[revivin]

Let me say in all honestly I too can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings. Therefore, I gave into this evidence and accepted Jesus as Creator, Lord and Savior. Seemed like the logical thing to do since nobody on this atheist site can find a naturalistic explanation either.

 

[revivin]

Try not act superior Keith out of your frustration you can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings seeing Jesus alive from the dead.

 

[untermensche]

Let me say in all honestly I too can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings. Therefore, I gave into this evidence and accepted Jesus as Creator, Lord and Savior. Seemed like the logical thing to do since nobody on this atheist site can find a naturalistic explanation either.

There are many natural explanations.

Peer pressure; wanting to belong to some group so you say things you know aren't true.

Ambition; the desire to be the biggest friend of the creator and have everyone know it.

Malice; lies as a way to strike out at perceived enemies of god.

And this is off the top of my head. The list is probably quite long.

 

[revivin]

Let me say in all honestly I too can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings. Therefore, I gave into this evidence and accepted Jesus as Creator, Lord and Savior. Seemed like the logical thing to do since nobody on this atheist site can find a naturalistic explanation either.

There are many natural explanations.

Peer pressure; wanting to belong to some group so you say things you know aren't true.

Ambition; the desire to be the biggest friend of the creator and have everyone know it.

Malice; lies as a way to strike out at perceived enemies of god.

And this is off the top of my head. The list is probably quite long.

Again, people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie so that covers these naturalistic theories.

Peter said, "We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty" (2 Pet. 2.16).

 

[Keith&Co.]

Let me say in all honestly I too can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings. Therefore, I gave into this evidence and accepted Jesus as Creator, Lord and Savior. Seemed like the logical thing to do since nobody on this atheist site can find a naturalistic explanation either.

Naturalistic explanations have been offered.
You're too busy proselytizing to notice.

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Try not act superior Keith out of your frustration you can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings seeing Jesus alive from the dead.

I've already offered one.
You're avoiding it.

 

[revivin]

Naturalistic explanations have been offered.

Those naturalistic theories have been shown why they fail. Please respond to that reason given.

John also said, "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched...we proclaim to you what we have seen and heard" (1 John 1.1,3).

 

[Keith&Co.]

Again, people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie so that covers these naturalistic theories.

Of course, the tales of the Apostles' deaths may be fictional, too.
People will certainly lie about things they konow to be a lie.

Peter said, .

And you can show that Peter wrote this book?

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Naturalistic explanations have been offered.

Those naturalistic theories have been shown why they fail. Please respond to that reason given. .

Then don't say 'no one has managed to come up with an explanation' when you mean you've managed to deny the explanations they've come up with.
Who wrote John?
How do you know?

 

[Ford]

rev,

If you're here to proselytize, do us all a favor and go away.

 

[untermensche]

Again, people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie so that covers these naturalistic theories.

I don't know if these people willingly died. I believe many were killed.

What first hand testimony do we have of any of their deaths?

Peter said, "We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty" (2 Pet. 2.16).

You mean the story that claims Jesus is some kind of god has one of the characters saying he is a witness to it?

And that is in any way convincing?

 

[revivin]

Of course, the tales of the Apostles' deaths may be fictional

These are very well multiply recorded events from James the first martyr in Acts to Paul almost being killed 7 times before his final martyrdom in 65 AD Neronian persecutions.

A crowd of 500 "most of whom are still alive" at the time of Paul writing (1 Cor. 15.6). This may have been the same group as in Matt. 28.16: the rendezvous was to "to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them." Unlike the other accounts which were unexpected and by surprise, and to gather such a large number of people, this meeting was held outdoors. The women were told to tell the disciples to meet Jesus in Galilee as well. "And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted" (Matt. 28.17) may be a reference to many present, both believers and non-believers. Paul had firsthand contact with them. So it was not a legend. He knew some of the people had died in the interim, but most were still alive. He is saying in effect they are still around to be questioned. You can talk to some of the witnesses. He never could have made this challenge if this event had not occurred.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Of course, the tales of the Apostles' deaths may be fictional

These are very well multiply recorded events from James the first martyr in Acts to Paul almost being killed 7 times before his final martyrdom in 65 AD Neronian persecutions.

You do know that writing down '500 people saw this' does not actually equal 501 accounts of an event, right?
What documentation do you have of these events outside of the Bible?

A crowd of 500 "most of whom are still alive" at the time of Paul writing (1 Cor. 15.6). This may have been the same group as in Matt. 28.16: the rendezvous was to "to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them." Unlike the other accounts which were unexpected and by surprise, and to gather such a large number of people, this meeting was held outdoors. The women were told to tell the disciples to meet Jesus in Galilee as well. "And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted" (Matt. 28.17) may be a reference to many present, both believers and non-believers. Paul had firsthand contact with them. So it was not a legend. He knew some of the people had died in the interim, but most were still alive. He is saying in effect they are still around to be questioned. You can talk to some of the witnesses. He never could have made this challenge if this event had not occurred.

Your cut/pasting needs to be better attributed, revivin.
Plagiarism is ill-becoming an apologist.

 

[revivin]

Keith,

The reason why your sins need to be atoned for is because your sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell to be eternally separated from God. Atonement cannot be accomplished by anyone other than God. Only He has the power to forgive sins by His precious blood on the cross.

With John in the Temple Peter said, "You killed the author of life, but God raised him to life. And we are witnesses of this fact!" (Acts 3.15). Not just Peter, but "all the Apostles" (1 Cor. 15.7).

 

[revivin]

I don't really care too much about the 17 non-Christian sources for Jesus because they are not as early as the 26 books of the NT in the first century before the Apostles were martyred around 65 AD. Revelation, of course, was written by John around 95 AD.

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Again, Peter said, "Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead" (Acts 10.40-41).

 

[Ford]

The reason why your sins need to be atoned for is because your sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell to be eternally separated from God. Atonement cannot be accomplished by anyone other than God. Only He has the power to forgive sins by His precious blood on the cross.

So at this point you've dropped all pretense and are just straight up preaching.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Keith,

The reason why your sins need to be atoned for is

Sins are crimes against gods. I don't believe in gods. I don't, therefore, accept that there are sins. Thus, i see no reason to accept that i need atonement.
This is pretty straightforward, really. And i think you're shifting topics to avoid the fact that you don't have historical evidence of who wrote all the books of The Books.

because your sin leads to death

Near as i can tell, we die whether we sin or if we don't.

and the second death which is Hell to be eternally separated from God.

As far as i can tell at the moment, i am separated from God and feel no repercussions. I am also separated from Amateratsu. And from Thor. And from Easter. And Inana.
No consequences appear to exist.

Atonement cannot be accomplished by anyone other than God.

Something of a snake-oil salesman, then.
Speakers for God tell me i have a problem and their god is the only cure.
Does it also cure baldness?

Only He has the power to forgive sins by His precious blood on the cross.

Only he has the power to punish people for sins against his rules, too.
Why should i dance his dance? Seems like a rigged jury, to me.
Lucky for me, he doesn't exist.

With John in the Temple
Peter said, "You killed the author of life,
but God raised him to life. And we are
witnesses of this fact!" (Acts 3.15).
Not just Peter, but "all the Apostles" (1
Cor. 15.7).

Still can't attribute your quotes, I see.
And i'm guessing you still can't show who wrote Peter or John? Or when?

 

[revivin]

So at this point you've dropped all pretense and are just straight up preaching.

You asked for evidence. This is it.

"Last of all he was seen of me also" (1 Cor. 15.8). "Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?" (1 Cor. 9.1).

"And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man" (Acts 9.7).

Paul reports knowing some of the disciples personally who had seen Jesus resurrected including Peter, James, and John. Acts confirms this (Acts 9.26-30; 15.1-35). And Paul says in 1 Cor. 15.11 that whether "it was I or they, this is what we preach" referring to the resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, 'evidence' is another word you don't understand fully. Or, really, much at all.
Got it.