Who did the Original Sin? God or man?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Who did the Original Sin? God or man?

Christian tradition tells us that Eve was deceived by the talking serpent that some see as Satan. This makes sense as we are told that Satan is the number one deceiver of man. I see God putting Satan in Eden as God intentionally wanting to deceive Eve and that of course led to Eve making Adam sin.

Christian tradition also tells us that God chose Jesus to be sacrificed even before the earth was created.
I see choosing to punish the innocent instead of the guilty as a sin.

These two instances of God choosing to do evil and sin, I see as the Original first and second sins.

Do you?

If you do, you will likely agree that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL

 

[Tom Sawyer]

There are many Christians who are very good because they just ignore any of the bullshit in the Christian faith which would interfere with their being good and cherry pick out the parts which are more palpable to them and build their religious beliefs around those.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

There are many Christians who are very good because they just ignore any of the bullshit in the Christian faith which would interfere with their being good and cherry pick out the parts which are more palpable to them and build their religious beliefs around those.

To me, if a Christian is good, he will put his morality ahead of his tribal affiliations and get out of Christianity all together.

That or turn to Gnostic Christianity.

I do know what you mean though.

Regards
DL

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What if he puts his tribal affiliations to Gnostic Christianity ahead of his morality? Would he still be good then?

 

[Keith&Co.]

If sin is read as a crime against God, CAN God sin?

And if he can, can't he just pardon himself?

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

What if he puts his tribal affiliations to Gnostic Christianity ahead of his morality? Would he still be good then?

As esoteric ecumenists, we tend to embrace any better rules, lays or ideologies, but if it did happen, then yes, that Gnostic Christian would be doing the immoral thing and putting his affiliations, which Gnostic Christians would condemn, ahead of his moral sense and would be just as evil and morally corrupt as any other religionist who did the same.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

If sin is read as a crime against God, CAN God sin?

And if he can, can't he just pardon himself?

Sin against God is a joke. How can a mere human hurt an all powerful God?

If Yahweh is the God in question, I have a big fat broomstick here waiting for him to back into.

That is one sin I would love to be found guilty for, given his sins against humanity.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

The original sin was their thinking for themselves and becomming aware. They were suddenly aware and covered with fig leaves. Loss of innocence, you can not sin if you are innocent of the world.

As allegory the Garden Of Eden and the fall story may have been about the trasition from a nomadic life to agrarian,, according to my Oxford Commentary. They now had to work at farmimh instead of of free roaming.

The role of Eve forever made woman the bane and downfall and seducer of men. It made women second class worthy of abuse.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

The original sin was their thinking for themselves and becomming aware. They were suddenly aware and covered with fig leaves. Loss of innocence, you can not sin if you are innocent of the world.

As allegory the Garden Of Eden and the fall story may have been about the trasition from a nomadic life to agrarian,, according to my Oxford Commentary. They now had to work at farmimh instead of of free roaming.

The role of Eve forever made woman the bane and downfall and seducer of men. It made women second class worthy of abuse.

U C 20/20 here.

That was the Christian view. Not the original Jewish view of Eden which was where man was elevated.

I think the Cane and Abel story suits your view of the transition from shepherd to farmer more though.

Regards
DL

 

[Horatio Parker]

We must've done something to deserve this.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

There is no original sin in Genesis. That was a gotchya invented by Paul. You live a perfect, noble, honest life but you are not a Christian? You are doomed since only being a Christian can remove original sin.

But there is no original sin in the OT. The tall tales there are to explain why life is hard and often unpleasant. God threw the gardener out of Eden to protect his magic fruit trees, the source of God and sons knowledge and immortality. Which God had no intention of sharing with his gardener.

 

[steve_bank]

Charley is right, original sin was a Catholic invention. Unless you are baptized a Catholic you are eternally screwed. I grew up Catholic.

I still have the old Catholic guilt, feeling like I am doing something wrong.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Charley is right, original sin was a Catholic invention. Unless you are baptized a Catholic you are eternally screwed. I grew up Catholic.

I still have the old Catholic guilt, feeling like I am doing something wrong.

Paul was not a Catholic. Catholicism was a later development. Paul's epistles were adopted as divine revelation by the Catholic Church. It took several hundred years to create the Catholic Church and define it's dogmas. And that process was not always peaceful.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

We must've done something to deserve this.

If you are punished without knowing why, then the punisher is a high order prick with Satanic morals.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

There is no original sin in Genesis. That was a gotchya invented by Paul. You live a perfect, noble, honest life but you are not a Christian? You are doomed since only being a Christian can remove original sin.

But there is no original sin in the OT. The tall tales there are to explain why life is hard and often unpleasant. God threw the gardener out of Eden to protect his magic fruit trees, the source of God and sons knowledge and immortality. Which God had no intention of sharing with his gardener.

I see it more as just a yarn of a rite of passage that the Christians, as you say, used to further the false guilt that keeps the coins flowing to the Church coffers.

Speaking of which. Here is the latest of the Popes pleas for cash while indicating that God can only be had through his corrupted church.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_bvGTc6SM8[/YOUTUBE]

All I can say to that is that if I had a -----

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vCww3j2-w[/YOUTUBE]

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Charley is right, original sin was a Catholic invention. Unless you are baptized a Catholic you are eternally screwed. I grew up Catholic.

I still have the old Catholic guilt, feeling like I am doing something wrong.

Such is the long lasting effects od child abuse.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc[/YOUTUBE]

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

Charley is right, original sin was a Catholic invention. Unless you are baptized a Catholic you are eternally screwed. I grew up Catholic.

I still have the old Catholic guilt, feeling like I am doing something wrong.

Paul was not a Catholic. Catholicism was a later development. Paul's epistles were adopted as divine revelation by the Catholic Church. It took several hundred years to create the Catholic Church and define it's dogmas. And that process was not always peaceful.

Christianity in general should be called Paulism. He dispensed with the Jewish requirements.

There was never qany abuse for me. The Catholics schools I went to provided a positive environment that countered a lousy family situation.

Christianity is not all bad in these times.

 

[Learner]

Must we go through this again? Forgotten already... or you (plural) just didn't know?

The prophecy of the Messiah, The Saints (later to be called Christians) Heaven and Hell predates even the Torah. Its in the Book of Enoch folks!

And... Paul also used the term "Saints" before the term Christian was used, no coincidence there, one would think.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Charley is right, original sin was a Catholic invention. Unless you are baptized a Catholic you are eternally screwed. I grew up Catholic.

I still have the old Catholic guilt, feeling like I am doing something wrong.

Paul was not a Catholic. Catholicism was a later development. Paul's epistles were adopted as divine revelation by the Catholic Church. It took several hundred years to create the Catholic Church and define it's dogmas. And that process was not always peaceful.

Christianity in general should be called Paulism. He dispensed with the Jewish requirements.

There was never qany abuse for me. The Catholics schools I went to provided a positive environment that countered a lousy family situation.

Christianity is not all bad in these times.

True as secular forces have brought it to heel.

It is still a religion of lying clergy with an immoral homophobic and misogynous ideology.

You are right that it is not all bad, if you are not a woman who seeks equality or a gay that seeks to not be discriminated against without a just cause.

You are giving respect to an organization of liars.

Shame on you.

Regards
DL

 

[Keith&Co.]

And... Paul also used the term "Saints" before the term Christian was used, no coincidence there, one would think.

Well, more likely, Paul used a word that SOME people translated to "saints," nu? Is there any other translation for the word he actually used, in a language he actually spoked?