Even if religion did only good and no ill, god would still not be real.

[repoman]

I guess I am burned out on the threads that point out all of the real negative things that exist in and increase by religion. The ancient rigid roles violent social structures that are buttressed though the claim of being from the word of god.

I am not sure what else to say, but I have not seen this as a thread topic here and I think it may be useful for deconversion.

Basically, telling people that the most joyous and hopeful things in life that they feel are not from god, that is really cutting to the heart of the illusion.

 

[Lion IRC]

Even if religion(s) objectively resulted in nothing but ill, that would not disprove the existence of God. Atheism isn't true or false depending on whether atheists do evil.

 

[James Brown]

I have to agree with both repoman and Lion IRC.

As someone who has spent the last few years publicly criticizing religion, I have become quite familiar with how people of faith rise to the defense of God. As it turns out, there aren’t a hundred ways of doing this. There appear to be just three: either a person argues that a specific religion is true, or he argues that religion is useful, or he simply attacks atheism as intolerant, elitist, irrational, or otherwise worthy of contempt. Any conversation between atheists and believers is liable to fall into one or more of these ruts, or lurch back and forth between them:

--Sam Harris, God's Enemies Are More Honest Than His Friends

When someone argues that religion does good things, he's saying that religion is useful, but it doesn't have to be true.

 

[Keith&Co.]

When someone argues that religion does good things, he's saying that religion is useful, but it doesn't have to be true.

That was Syed's exact argument.
Even if there were no god, his belief in Allah was the only thing that made him a contributing member of society. The only thing that made ANYONE a contributing member. No one who ever did anything worthwhile was ever an atheist.

 

[J842P]

Even if religion(s) objectively resulted in nothing but ill, that would not disprove the existence of God. Atheism isn't true or false depending on whether atheists do evil.

Correct. Are you agreeing with repoman?

 

[phands]

Religion is always a crock of crap, but the real reason to doubt the existence of gawd is the utter, overwhelming lack of even the tiniest iota of proof for one, despite many thousands of years of claiming there is.

 

[Lion IRC]

Even if religion(s) objectively resulted in nothing but ill, that would not disprove the existence of God. Atheism isn't true or false depending on whether atheists do evil.

Correct. Are you agreeing with repoman?

Yep. (Insofar as you can't prove/disprove theism/atheism by appealing to non sequiturs)

 

[DBT]

Evidence provides justification. Absence of evidence cannot be used to justify a belief. A belief held without evidence is an unjustified belief, a belief held on faith.

 

[Lion IRC]

Agreed.
Plenty of evidence for God.

Atheism on the other hand is entirely predicated upon the alleged absence of evidence.

And, as you say, a belief held without evidence is unjustified.

 

[DBT]

Agreed.
Plenty of evidence for God.

Atheism on the other hand is entirely predicated upon the alleged absence of evidence.

And, as you say, a belief held without evidence is unjustified.

You have it backwards.

 

[James Brown]

LionIRC, serious question.

Why should I be a Christian?

 

[sinkorswim]

Agreed.
Plenty of evidence for God.

Atheism on the other hand is entirely predicated upon the alleged absence of evidence.

And, as you say, a belief held without evidence is unjustified.

People have been saying there is "evidence for god, but in the last 5 millenia of written history no one has provided any. Unless you have something objective and verifiable, you're just another believer blowing smoke.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[Lion IRC]

LionIRC, serious question.

Why should I be a Christian?

You will find rest for yourself.
Matt 11:30
You will know a kind of peace like never before
Philippians 4:7
You will have a new/different purpose (mission)
Matt 28:19
You will fill a thirst which water can't quench
John 4:14
...and a hunger that bread alone can't satisfy
Deuteronomy 8:3
You will feel the sense of equality and belonging to a family which comes from sharing the same Father as everyone else. (Our Father - who so loved the whole world, all of us)
Matt 6:9
You will discover that sin/evil/immorality has a solution and that death is not the end.
John 11:25

 

[phands]

Agreed.
Plenty of evidence for God.

Atheism on the other hand is entirely predicated upon the alleged absence of evidence.

And, as you say, a belief held without evidence is unjustified.

You have it backwards.

Yes, as usual, he has it backwards.

Also, given the claims of existence of evidence, where is it? Show one (just one!) concrete iota of actual proof - not hand-wavy woo - and I as a thinking realist would have to recant being an atheist. As not one piece of actual evidence has surfaced ever, I don't think there is any.
Somehow, LIRC and all religionists will dissemble and distract when asked for their apparently plentiful evidence.

 

[James Brown]

LionIRC, serious question.

Why should I be a Christian?

You will find rest for yourself.
Matt 11:30
You will know a kind of peace like never before
Philippians 4:7
You will have a new/different purpose (mission)
Matt 28:19
You will fill a thirst which water can't quench
John 4:14
...and a hunger that bread alone can't satisfy
Deuteronomy 8:3
You will feel the sense of equality and belonging to a family which comes from sharing the same Father as everyone else. (Our Father - who so loved the whole world, all of us)
Matt 6:9
You will discover that sin/evil/immorality has a solution and that death is not the end.
John 11:25

Sounds intriguing.

Any way I can verify those claims before signing on the dotted line?

 

[abaddon]

LionIRC, serious question.

Why should I be a Christian?

You will find rest for yourself.
Matt 11:30
You will know a kind of peace like never before
Philippians 4:7
You will have a new/different purpose (mission)
Matt 28:19
You will fill a thirst which water can't quench
John 4:14
...and a hunger that bread alone can't satisfy
Deuteronomy 8:3
You will feel the sense of equality and belonging to a family which comes from sharing the same Father as everyone else. (Our Father - who so loved the whole world, all of us)
Matt 6:9
You will discover that sin/evil/immorality has a solution and that death is not the end.
John 11:25

I'd summarize what those verses say like this: Finding an inner resource that gives some peace of mind; sharing with others how you found peace of mind; enriching one's experience or inner life and not merely tending the body's needs; feeling kinship with the rest of nature; and feeling dis-identified from the ego tidbit of our minds so the feeling of being isolated, and also the fear of death, mostly or even wholly disappears.

If the weird stories about God and Jesus and heaven have the effect of giving people some peace of mind (and I think they do), then nature is the uncredited source of that.

So if peace of mind is the ultimate reason for it, I conclude Christianity's just one option. And a whacked one.

 

[atrib]

Agreed.
Plenty of evidence for God.

That is incorrect. Prove me wrong. Show us the evidence.

Atheism on the other hand is entirely predicated upon the alleged absence of evidence.

And, as you say, a belief held without evidence is unjustified.

That is incorrect. The absence of evidence is not alleged, there really is no evidence for gods. Prove me wrong. Show us the evidence.

Of course, we all know you are not going to show us anything. But we have to go through this this half-assed show and tell routine where you tell us lots of things but show us nothing. Elementary school children understand show and tell better than you do apparently

 

[atrib]

LionIRC, serious question.

Why should I be a Christian?

You will find rest for yourself.
Matt 11:30
You will know a kind of peace like never before
Philippians 4:7
You will have a new/different purpose (mission)
Matt 28:19
You will fill a thirst which water can't quench
John 4:14
...and a hunger that bread alone can't satisfy
Deuteronomy 8:3
You will feel the sense of equality and belonging to a family which comes from sharing the same Father as everyone else. (Our Father - who so loved the whole world, all of us)
Matt 6:9
You will discover that sin/evil/immorality has a solution and that death is not the end.
John 11:25

Good. Now all you have to do is produce your god, or a reasonable facsimile, and explain why this god is worthy of our adoration. But we all know you are not going to do that, don't we?

 

[Lion IRC]

LionIRC, serious question.

Why should I be a Christian?

You will find rest for yourself.
Matt 11:30
You will know a kind of peace like never before
Philippians 4:7
You will have a new/different purpose (mission)
Matt 28:19
You will fill a thirst which water can't quench
John 4:14
...and a hunger that bread alone can't satisfy
Deuteronomy 8:3
You will feel the sense of equality and belonging to a family which comes from sharing the same Father as everyone else. (Our Father - who so loved the whole world, all of us)
Matt 6:9
You will discover that sin/evil/immorality has a solution and that death is not the end.
John 11:25

Sounds intriguing.

Any way I can verify those claims before signing on the dotted line?

Try before you buy? LOL
It costs you nothing and you can always change your mind at any time.

 

[James Brown]

Sounds intriguing.

Any way I can verify those claims before signing on the dotted line?

Try before you buy? LOL
It costs you nothing and you can always change your mind at any time.

Thinking about this more, your claims sound too good to be true. Plus they're so vaguely described it's hard to know if we're thinking of the same things. Quench a thirst? Fill a hunger? Should I take those literally? Does that mean if I become a Christian, I'll never have to eat or drink again? Will I save a fortune on groceries?