Are Democrats "Wet Rag" Wimps?

[lpetrich]

Democrats Fear They’re the Wet Rag Party - POLITICO Magazine

Al Franken is a long-time liberal warrior accused of predatory sexual behavior who is now licking his wounds in exile.

Brett Kavanaugh is a long-time conservative warrior accused of predatory sexual behavior who is now licking his wounds on the United States Supreme Court.

Donald Trump—who faces a more extensive roster of allegations than either man but has never seemed to be licking any wounds about them—finds that contrast vastly entertaining.

The president’s gleeful taunts of Franken as a quitter at a campaign rally in Minnesota on Thursday night—he folded “like a wet rag,” Trump cackled—were, for Democrats, a wicked preface to their ash-in-mouth defeat this weekend in the Kavanaugh nomination fight.

The Democrats have indeed been rather wimpy. I remember very well what a wimp Obama was and how wimpy his fellow Democrats were. They let the Republicans filibuster them much more than the Democrats had done during George Bush II's presidency. The Republicans back then threatened the "nuclear option", to abolish the filibuster, and the Democrats meekly went along.

As to Merrick Garland, Obama should have gone ahead and appointed him. He should have said "Since the Senate has no objections, it has essentially consented to my appointment."

As to Obamacare, that has been over the decades Bismarckcare, Heritagecare, Chafeecare, and Romneycare, without much outrage from the Republican Party. But when Obama did it, it was all of a sudden a crime against humanity.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Obama is the best politician in our age. Sadly, he is not so great a president.

 

[fromderinside]

He will probably be judged as a good president. In the near term deciders are advantaged over statesmen. He went pretty far in advancing inclusiveness in the world as well as in 'merica. The whities at the confederate wailing wall are ample evidence of that.

Face it. It was Obama's fault that Chief Justice Roberts didn't go along with the frame the right was trying when they got Obamacare to the SC. Sure it was .....

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Obama spoke of Change You Can Believe In, Yes WE Can, and preached unity rather than division. He preached about universal single payer health care. He preached about ending the wars overseas. He preached about closing the prison in Cuba where Americans torture non-Americans and hold them without charges. But once elected, he was just another corporate democrat funded by and beholden to the big money donors.

 

[poster]

Obama spoke of Change You Can Believe In, Yes WE Can, and preached unity rather than division. He preached about universal single-payer health care. He preached about ending the wars overseas. He preached about closing the prison in Cuba where Americans torture non-Americans and hold them without charges. But once elected, he was just another corporate democrat funded by and beholden to the big money donors.

I could be wrong, and although I am so far from being an advocate of Obama's presidency, I do think his ambitions of doing the rights things (as you mention) were honest, but Obama was naive. It happens to every president it seems - that they end up looking like liars once actually elected.

However, since we've now seen how the early stages of the Trump presidency had gone concerning the Intelligence services, I now have pause about accusing presidents of being liars, per se. Here's what I mean and what I think happens during the beginning stages of national security meetings:

I think the initial briefings presidents get are such that they are congratulated on their hard-fought win. After that I think they are also told that the intelligent services have become aware from outside sources that there is a lot of derogatory information (whether the information is accurate or not need not matter) on them, some of their loved ones, close confidants and friends, and that the intelligence community is actively working to keep it all out of the public domain. This all sets a person back on their heels and communicates that if they don't play ball as Intelligence advises, they are screwed.

What Trump apparently did was say "fuck you! You say you have a pee tape? Let's see it." And then what did Trump do? He delegated his son-in-law to take the briefings for him, and that was a direct insult to intelligence. Remember what Chuck Shummer said at the time - "you don't want to piss off the intelligence community because they have seven ways to Sunday beat you." Intelligence ran into a guy that has no shame and has lots of friends that can play hardball with the intelligence community.

Obama had no such connections and was too timid a person to stand up to the bs intelligence throws out there.

Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and say "fuck it". Trump did that and Obama didn't. Trump looks like a stronger person and a better leader for it. Period. And I abhor the man.

 

[ZiprHead]

Obama spoke of Change You Can Believe In, Yes WE Can, and preached unity rather than division. He preached about universal single payer health care. He preached about ending the wars overseas. He preached about closing the prison in Cuba where Americans torture non-Americans and hold them without charges. But once elected, he was just another corporate democrat funded by and beholden to the big money donors.

Do you ever come up with something about the US that isn't stupidly, blindingly wrong?

Universal healthcare never had a chance. Even many dems were against it at the time. The ACA was just barely gotten through congress. Now many dems are running on UHC.

Republicans blocked Obama's efforts to close the Guantanamo prison by forbidding the government to spend any money to do so. Congress holds the purse strings in the US, not the president.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Do you ever come up with something about the US that isn't stupidly, blindingly wrong?

Oh that's nice and befitting of the top admin here, and I turn the question back on you. Do you?

Universal healthcare never had a chance.

He was elected with one vote short of a supermajority in the congress, and he never even tried for universal single payer health care. He didn't even start there in negotiation. He started with the "public option". He was either bought or he was weak willed, and it cost you dearly.

Republicans blocked Obama's efforts to close the Guantanamo prison by forbidding the government to spend any money to do so. Congress holds the purse strings in the US, not the president.

Again, he hardly even tried. And he increased, not decreased, drone strikes and didn't end the wars as promised. He was one broken promise after another. Candidate Obama and President Obama were not the same man in the slightest.

 

[ZiprHead]

Oh that's nice and befitting of the top admin here, and I turn the question back on you. Do you?



He was elected with one vote short of a supermajority in the congress, and he never even tried for universal single payer health care. He didn't even start there in negotiation. He started with the "public option". He was either bought or he was weak willed, and it cost you dearly.

Republicans blocked Obama's efforts to close the Guantanamo prison by forbidding the government to spend any money to do so. Congress holds the purse strings in the US, not the president.

Again, he hardly even tried. And he increased, not decreased, drone strikes and didn't end the wars as promised. He was one broken promise after another. Candidate Obama and President Obama were not the same man in the slightest.

I'm a user just the same as you unless I am speaking as an admin, which I will make clear when I do.

BTW, you'd realize why you are wrong about the ACA if you didn't edit out the part about why UHC wasn't proposed. Why did you do that? Seems a little dishonest to me.

ETA: Obama ceased all major combat operations in Iraq in 2011. Ceased them in Afghanistan in 2014.

And of course drone strikes increased because drones are a very new technology. The fact that total warfare by the US on both those fronts decreased tremendously is apparently lost on you but you've latched onto a talking point you feel makes your case. Here's a little hint: It doesn't.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Oh that's nice and befitting of the top admin here, and I turn the question back on you. Do you?



He was elected with one vote short of a supermajority in the congress, and he never even tried for universal single payer health care. He didn't even start there in negotiation. He started with the "public option". He was either bought or he was weak willed, and it cost you dearly.

Republicans blocked Obama's efforts to close the Guantanamo prison by forbidding the government to spend any money to do so. Congress holds the purse strings in the US, not the president.

Again, he hardly even tried. And he increased, not decreased, drone strikes and didn't end the wars as promised. He was one broken promise after another. Candidate Obama and President Obama were not the same man in the slightest.

You're not a right winger? I don't understand why you dislike Obama so much? Here's a good article on the promises that Obama fulfilled:

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-.../05/tracking-obamas-top-25-campaign-promises/

My problem with you is that you cherry pick. Obama and Trump are equal in your eyes because Obama didn't shut down Gitmo. However, Obama outlawed torture. Let me repeat, he got rid of it. Trump brought it back. Sure he failed to enact universal health care. But he greatly expanded health care coverage. Millions have health care now. He made companies equate mental health care with medical. Do you have any idea how huge that is? Trump wants to eliminate it.

As you can see from the unbiased link that I posted: Obama kept a lot of promises, broke some. He wasn't perfect. 10 times great than Trump. He was a decent honorable person who brought great dignity and leadership to the office. He has been greatly missed.

 

[J842P]

My problem with you is that you cherry pick. Obama and Trump are equal in your eyes because Obama didn't shut down Gitmo. However, Obama outlawed torture. Let me repeat, he got rid of it. .

One thing: nowhere has Jolly Penguin argued that Obama and Trump are equal.

Another thing, Obama did not outlaw torture. Torture was already illegal. Obama refused to prosecute anyone for the crime of torture, though. But I guess, yeah, he did admit, "we tortured some folks."

 

[poster]

ETA: Obama ceased all major combat operations in Iraq in 2011. Ceased them in Afghanistan in 2014.

And of course drone strikes increased because drones are a very new technology. The fact that total warfare by the US on both those fronts decreased tremendously is apparently lost on you but you've latched onto a talking point you feel makes your case. Here's a little hint: It doesn't.

I think you're mistaken.

"Mr. President, we've been at war throughout your tenure," said Gen. Joesph Dunford, chosen by Obama in 2015 to be chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "That's a period longer than any other American president."

That's right: Obama is the first president to serve eight years and preside over American wars during every single day of his tenure. That's not what Obama wanted or expected.

[...]

What's more, a war that began with a U.S. invasion 15 years ago in October 2001 appears to have no end in sight.

"The situation in Afghanistan, in the rosiest possible reasonable analysis, is a stalemate," said Stephen Biddle, a military analyst at the Council on Foreign Relations and George Washington University. The war, he added "can only be sustained if the U.S. Congress keeps writing multibillion-dollar-a-year checks to keep the Afghan National Security Forces in the field."

https://www.npr.org/sections/parall...roken-war-obama-hands-over-conflicts-to-trump

Before he took office in 2008, Barack Obama vowed to end America’s grueling conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. During his second term, he pledged to take the country off what he called a permanent war footing.

“Our systematic effort to dismantle terrorist organizations must continue,” he said in May 2013. “But this war, like all wars, must end. That’s what history advises. It’s what our democracy demands.”

But Obama leaves a very different legacy as he prepares to hand his commander-in-chief responsibilities to Donald Trump.

U.S. military forces have been at war for all eight years of Obama’s tenure, the first two-term president with that distinction. He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan.

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obama-at-war/

There's plenty more where that came from. Take your pick.

https://www.google.com/search?q=war...52j1j7&client=ubuntu&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Harry Bosch]

My problem with you is that you cherry pick. Obama and Trump are equal in your eyes because Obama didn't shut down Gitmo. However, Obama outlawed torture. Let me repeat, he got rid of it. .

One thing: nowhere has Jolly Penguin argued that Obama and Trump are equal.

Another thing, Obama did not outlaw torture. Torture was already illegal. Obama refused to prosecute anyone for the crime of torture, though. But I guess, yeah, he did admit, "we tortured some folks."

I just don't get it. Why play these word games? Why did you dislike Obama so much? Bush reinstituted torture for his administration. Republicans don't care about international law. Obama overruled this. Trump brought it back. Do you not give any credit to Obama for this?

 

[barbos]

Obama spoke of Change You Can Believe In, Yes WE Can, and preached unity rather than division. He preached about universal single-payer health care. He preached about ending the wars overseas. He preached about closing the prison in Cuba where Americans torture non-Americans and hold them without charges. But once elected, he was just another corporate democrat funded by and beholden to the big money donors.

I could be wrong, and although I am so far from being an advocate of Obama's presidency, I do think his ambitions of doing the rights things (as you mention) were honest, but Obama was naive. It happens to every president it seems - that they end up looking like liars once actually elected.

However, since we've now seen how the early stages of the Trump presidency had gone concerning the Intelligence services, I now have pause about accusing presidents of being liars, per se. Here's what I mean and what I think happens during the beginning stages of national security meetings:

I think the initial briefings presidents get are such that they are congratulated on their hard-fought win. After that I think they are also told that the intelligent services have become aware from outside sources that there is a lot of derogatory information (whether the information is accurate or not need not matter) on them, some of their loved ones, close confidants and friends, and that the intelligence community is actively working to keep it all out of the public domain. This all sets a person back on their heels and communicates that if they don't play ball as Intelligence advises, they are screwed.

What Trump apparently did was say "fuck you! You say you have a pee tape? Let's see it." And then what did Trump do? He delegated his son-in-law to take the briefings for him, and that was a direct insult to intelligence. Remember what Chuck Shummer said at the time - "you don't want to piss off the intelligence community because they have seven ways to Sunday beat you." Intelligence ran into a guy that has no shame and has lots of friends that can play hardball with the intelligence community.

Obama had no such connections and was too timid a person to stand up to the bs intelligence throws out there.

Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and say "fuck it". Trump did that and Obama didn't. Trump looks like a stronger person and a better leader for it. Period. And I abhor the man.

You are implying Deep State. I would not go that far, but agree that presidents and politicians in general don't have much clue about anything besides getting votes, and "smart" thing for them to do is to rely on really smart advisers and experts, who unfortunately are often simply wrong if not corrupted.