Jimmy Higgins
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Why is it that right-wingers... and umm... our liberal Jolly Penguin complain about "identity politics", yet seem to be the only ones talking about it?
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Transracial?
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Me and right-wingers are the only ones talking about identity politics? Um no. The illiberal left has made an entire politic based around it, just as the far right has. And the individual is worth sticking up for in this age of group identities.
ruby sparks
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He doesn't always complain about it. Sometimes he engages in it. It depends. Feminism: decry. Men's Rights: support.
Jimmy Higgins
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I am aware that is what you like to repeat. But saying it over and over again doesn't make it true.
Last time I checked, gays weren't lobbying for straight marriage bans. That blacks weren't trying limit access to the polls. That transsexuals aren't advocating heterosexuals be banned from the military.
laughing dog
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Where have you been? Identity politics have made an "entire politic" for centuries on this planet. People are social animals and have identified and will identify with a group. Decrying identity politics is like decrying the weather: it won't change the very nature of the situation.
https://discoversociety.org/2018/04/03/viewpoint-understanding-anti-transgender-feminism/
I find the inherent conflict between feminism and trans fascinating. Somebody born male, and having lived much of their early life as a male, "benefiting from patriarchy", can suddenly switch to female and participate in all of the programs set up to counteract it. Somebody who claims to be gender fluid can simply jump back and forth as the situation benefits them. A system based around group identity faces a challenge when it allows people to transition between groups.
I find the inherent conflict between feminism and trans fascinating. Somebody born male, and having lived much of their early life as a male, "benefiting from patriarchy", can suddenly switch to female and participate in all of the programs set up to counteract it. Somebody who claims to be gender fluid can simply jump back and forth as the situation benefits them. A system based around group identity faces a challenge when it allows people to transition between groups.
laughing dog
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Thank you Captain Obvious. Any social system based on ______ faces challenges: there are not costless or gameless social system or protocols. The practical issue is what set of rules or system achieves the desired goal(s) at the least cost to society because there are no costless approaches to dealing with social issues.
As I've noted many times before, "Identity politics" is basically a way to denigrate any group aside from cis het white men that are advocating for their own rights and wellbeing. Abortion is, in reality, a medical issue, being against police brutality is just not wanting to be killed by the state, marriage equality is just about giving same-sex couples the same access to a very useful contract, and so forth. I usually assume that people who say "identity politics" are either against this, or are at best akin to the white moderate from MLK's Letter from a Birmingham Jail.
There's nothing about any of these that requires any politician to ignore, say, improving healthcare access, education, or jobs - and in fact, every democratic politician that I've heard discusses these at great length. People seem shocked that black people, LGBT people, muslims, women, and so forth, are all interested in those as well, and politicians can't simply work exclusively on a single issue.
(In fact, white "conservatives" seem to be the only group who will usually put identity above the above issues - it seems more important to many of them to tear down the rights of others than to have a decent life for themselves.)
To be honest, she seems to have some nasty emotional issues that led to that mess - not that this is an excuse.
This is an outright falsehood, as Warren has never claimed to be "transracial".
Bomb#20
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Um, maybe because leftists don't have time to talk about it, they're so busy practicing it? It isn't right-wingers who are getting people fired for not letting somebody into a bakery after it's closed because of which identity group the would-be customer was from.
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...employees-for-refusing-service-to-black-woman
^^^^ This ^^^^
Jimmy Higgins
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...and in obsessing with "identity politics" bring up isolated incidents to try and make them seem more common.
Um, maybe because leftists don't have time to talk about it, they're so busy practicing it? It isn't right-wingers who are getting people fired for not letting somebody into a bakery after it's closed because of which identity group the would-be customer was from.
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...employees-for-refusing-service-to-black-woman
As a person of color I have to say that you, a white male, just can't understand our lived experience so you don't understand our issues. We all think, act, and believe the same. This isn't racism at all.
And as an asian, I'll do the math for you while driving.
And as an asian, I'll do the math for you while driving.
laughing dog
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No it isn't racism. It is stereotyping.
Derec
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You missed one of the most notorious transracial individuals: Shaun King aka Talcum X.
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He's not practicing identity politics at all, no siree.
Derec
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It's not that easy. You have to put on some makeup too.
Seriously though, if there was so much "white privilege", why do so many white people try to pass for so-called "persons of color" and not vice versa?
ruby sparks
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First of all, I take Jason at his word.
Second, if you're offering Elizabeth Warren I'll offer Michael Jackson. What else ya got? I've got half of affluent South East Asia up my sleeve.
Third, The Black and White Minstrels have disbanded.
Fourth, seriously though, white privilege is just a general, global thing. There are many disadvantaged whites.
Angra Mainyu
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Of course that would be racism. But you will not persuade people who insist that only White people can be racist.
Jimmy Higgins
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racism - noun - Whatever the fuck you want it to mean as long as it has at least a modicum of a tangent to race. see: intolerance, stereotype, hate, honked at by a black guy
Angra Mainyu
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The word "racism", like nearly all words, is not defined stipulatively - except in the context of some philosophical arguments or similar -, but rather, it gets its meaning from its usage.