Affirmative Action and the Problem of Scarcity

[AthenaAwakened]

Picture if you will a nation where there were enough freshmen university slots for everyone who wanted to go. Picture a nation where not going to university didn't negatively affect a person's life chances because there were other avenues to gaining entry into the world of the professions.

There would be no need for affirmative action.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Picture if you will a nation where there were enough freshmen university slots for everyone who wanted to go. Picture a nation where not going to university didn't negatively affect a person's life chances because there were other avenues to gaining entry into the world of the professions.

There would be no need for affirmative action.

There are enough slots.

AA admissions are about getting into slots above one's ability, not about getting into college at all.


And having other routes into the professions makes no sense--we are talking fields where you need education. I program computers--I sure as hell don't want an uneducated coworker! They would be worse than useless. I don't care where that education comes from, I care that they have it.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

There are enough slots.

Affirmative Action is about helping to get the undeserved populations into institutions where these populations would normally not have access to.

 

[bigfield]

Picture a nation where not going to university didn't negatively affect a person's life chances because there were other avenues to gaining entry into the world of the professions.

Other avenues, like community college?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

There are enough slots.

AA admissions are about getting into slots above one's ability, not about getting into college at all.


And having other routes into the professions makes no sense--we are talking fields where you need education. I program computers--I sure as hell don't want an uneducated coworker! They would be worse than useless. I don't care where that education comes from, I care that they have it.

wrong, but keep repeating it. maybe it will make someone feel better about the inadequacies in themselves.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

There are enough slots.

Affirmative Action is about helping to get the undeserved populations into institutions where these populations would normally not have access to.

why don't they now have access? There are schools all across this country who have far more applicants than they do openings, or do you know that not to be the case?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Other avenues, like community college?

that

And apprenticeships

"Reading law" comes to mind, where you don't go to law school, but clerk under a practicing attorney and when you both feel you are ready, you sit for the bar.

 

[Derec]

There are enough slots.

Affirmative Action is about helping to get the undeserved populations into institutions where these populations would normally not have access to.

The aim be to helping under-served populations but in reality it is aiding un-deserving individuals.

 

[Derec]

Other avenues, like community college?

Community colleges but also loads of state universities other than the harder to get into flagship institutions like Berkeley, University of Michigan, UNC Chapel Hill, Georgia Tech or others.

 

[Derec]

why don't they now have access? There are schools all across this country who have far more applicants than they do openings, or do you know that not to be the case?

Well obviously the top tier schools will attract many more applications than they have slots. And most kids apply to more than one school at once. But below them there are 2nd and 3rd tier universities as well as community colleges which do not "have far more applicants than they do openings".
Also people should be more realistic of their chances of admissions that top tier schools especially with marginal (for that school) grades and scores.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

why don't they now have access? There are schools all across this country who have far more applicants than they do openings, or do you know that not to be the case?

Oh yes, I know it not to be the case as there are schools across the country with plenty of openings. You might need to be able to relocate or settle for a non prestigious program, but that's life. Just because a student doesn't get into their first choice, doesn't mean there are not other choices. Generally, universities are looking for students who will be successful. They don't want to have a low completion rate or set the marginal students up for failure.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There are enough slots.

Affirmative Action is about helping to get the undeserved populations into institutions where these populations would normally not have access to.

And why aren't you lobbying for short people in the NBA?


You are making the mistake of thinking the group matters. It doesn't, what counts is the individual.

Whether you get into Harvard should be about your ability, not about your skin color, your religion, your sexuality or whatever other groups you might belong to.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

why don't they now have access? There are schools all across this country who have far more applicants than they do openings, or do you know that not to be the case?

There are enough college slots available. Denying the unqualified admission to an elite school doesn't mean they don't go to school. In fact, denying the admission is good for them--students who go to a school that matches their level are more likely to graduate than those who aim too high. A degree from a B-rank school is far more valuable than a dropout from an A-rank school.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

And why aren't you lobbying for short people in the NBA?

Why would I be? There is a difference between college access and the NBA. (Oh and wingspan tends to be a bigger indicator than height (alone) for success in the NBA.)

You are making the mistake of thinking the group matters. It doesn't, what counts is the individual.

You must have misread my post, or misinterpreted it. My point is access, not automatic acceptance based upon race.

Whether you get into Harvard should be about your ability, not about your skin color, your religion, your sexuality or whatever other groups you might belong to.

Well, then a lot of rich kids shouldn't be there.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Well, then a lot of rich kids shouldn't be there.

Correct. But how does that help your point?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Legacy kids are overrepresented at Harvard. (Actually I don't know this.)

 

[Derec]

Why would I be? There is a difference between college access and the NBA. (Oh and wingspan tends to be a bigger indicator than height (alone) for success in the NBA.)

Yes, college education is more important than a mere sports league. That makes it even more important not to discriminate by race to achieve some sort of "diversity".

You must have misread my post, or misinterpreted it. My point is access, not automatic acceptance based upon race.

Oh, they have access. Everyone can apply to a school like UM. And when applications are evaluated on race-neutral grounds everyone has the same chance to get accepted based on their individual merit. What that Kimbaugh girl from the other thread wants is automatic acceptance based on race. What AA proponents in general want is preferential treatment of black and hispanic applicants, which is antithesis to equal opportunity.

Well, then a lot of rich kids shouldn't be there.

How many?

 

[arkirk]

Aren't sports just one more unrelated activity a university resorts to for publicity and sometimes for funds. There should be no sports scholarships. Everybody should go to school if they want to and play sports if they want to. If we had a truly public education system, the cream could rise to the top in any configuration of sports competition. It still is only an anomaly in the educational system. The super athletes will find their mark in any system. On the other hand, a little physical education is good for all students whether or not they participate in competitive sports.