You can take Syrians out of Syria, but you cannot take Syria out of Syrians.

[Derec]

Alternate title: Danke Merkel!
Wie eine syrische Familie den Liebhaber ihrer Tochter fast umbrachte
"How a Syrian family almost killed the lover of her daughter"

So, the daughter, Sina, is 17, married to the cousin of her mother. She meets another 17 year old, Mohammed, also from Syria. They all live in Essen in Germany. Danke Merkel!
They start an affair. Her extended family eventually holds a family council where it is decided that Mohammed should be murdered. Several members of the family attack him, injure him severely and partially scalp him, but he survives. The perps also film their crime and send the video to family members who were not present.

That's what happens when you open your borders to everybody who wants to come. Danke Merkel!
I also doubt that any of them will be deported after serving their sentences, because Syria is deemed "too dangerous". Danke Merkel!

 

[Jarhyn]

Alternate title: Danke Merkel!
Wie eine syrische Familie den Liebhaber ihrer Tochter fast umbrachte
"How a Syrian family almost killed the lover of her daughter"

So, the daughter, Sina, is 17, married to the cousin of her mother. She meets another 17 year old, Mohammed, also from Syria. They all live in Essen in Germany. Danke Merkel!
They start an affair. Her extended family eventually holds a family council where it is decided that Mohammed should be murdered. Several members of the family attack him, injure him severely and partially scalp him, but he survives. The perps also film their crime and send the video to family members who were not present.

That's what happens when you open your borders to everybody who wants to come. Danke Merkel!
I also doubt that any of them will be deported after serving their sentences, because Syria is deemed "too dangerous". Danke Merkel!

Wah, Syrians have a culture that believes ignorant things... You know who else recently had a culture that believed ignorant things? Fucking Germany itself. Or are you forgetting that whole gassing Jews thing? Not too long ago, Germans, born in Germany, of German culture and pureblooded German genetics were shooting people for marrying people outside their religion, lynching blacks, and murdering gay people.

But today that is no longer happening. It's almost like people are not slave to their culture and can learn their way past problematic elements for the good of society, given time

 

[laughing dog]

Why is it noteworthy that some immigrants commit a crime, are caught and sentenced? If they had not immigrated, presumably the same love triangle and attack would have occurred in Syria, except maybe there would have been no crime. Seems to me it was better for everyone that this occurred in Germany.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

That's a really weird family meeting. Did it ONLY focus on who they were going to murder that day or did they also bring up stuff like how Akbar always leaves his dirty plates in the living room?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Wah, Syrians have a culture that believes ignorant things... You know who else recently had a culture that believed ignorant things? Fucking Germany itself.

But today that is no longer happening.

This sort of thing in the OP IS still happening in Syria and IS still a part of that culture. Your comparison point would be more relevant if Nazi Germany still existed and Israel was letting Germans into its country and a Nazi murdered a Jew there. Israel may want to put some safeguards in place against such Nazis entering its country. And it may do so by resorting to the same sort of group discrimination as Derec is advocating for here against Syrians. Or at lease would want to have some good vetting in place, right?

 

[Jarhyn]

Wah, Syrians have a culture that believes ignorant things... You know who else recently had a culture that believed ignorant things? Fucking Germany itself.

But today that is no longer happening.

This sort of thing in the OP IS still happening in Syria and IS still a part of that culture. Your comparison point would be more relevant if Nazi Germany still existed and Israel was letting Germans into its country and a Nazi murdered a Jew there. Israel may want to put some safeguards in place against such Nazis entering its country. And it may do so by resorting to the same sort of group discrimination as Derec is advocating for here against Syrians. Or at lease would want to have some good vetting in place, right?

My point is that this is the same bullshit that was used to oppress east Germans.

Germans accepted their Nazis and just told them to not be Nazis anymore, combined with a whole bunch of ongoing social education about why being a Nazi is bad.

The way forward is not to be particularly suspicious of the "ex-Nazis" or "ex Syrians", or whatever. The point is to be better and welcoming to all, to produce proper social cohesion and trust, and participate in ongoing social education.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This sort of thing in the OP IS still happening in Syria and IS still a part of that culture. Your comparison point would be more relevant if Nazi Germany still existed and Israel was letting Germans into its country and a Nazi murdered a Jew there. Israel may want to put some safeguards in place against such Nazis entering its country. And it may do so by resorting to the same sort of group discrimination as Derec is advocating for here against Syrians. Or at lease would want to have some good vetting in place, right?

My point is that this is the same bullshit that was used to oppress east Germans.

Germans accepted their Nazis and just told them to not be Nazis anymore, combined with a whole bunch of ongoing social education about why being a Nazi is bad.

The way forward is not to be particularly suspicious of the "ex-Nazis" or "ex Syrians", or whatever. The point is to be better and welcoming to all, to produce proper social cohesion and trust, and participate in ongoing social education.

Ah seems I may have misread you. I apologize.

 

[Derec]

Wah, Syrians have a culture that believes ignorant things... You know who else recently had a culture that believed ignorant things? Fucking Germany itself.

Are there cases of German families settling in a different country and then trying to exterminate Jews like a bunch of Nazi Daleks? No? Then the comparison is invalid.
Also, if any German family did something like that, they should be deported back to their country of origin after serving their sentences. Furthermore, anybody trying to immigrate to another country should be vetted by their target country, including Germans, but also including Syrians.

Or are you forgetting that whole gassing Jews thing? Not too long ago, Germans, born in Germany, of German culture and pureblooded German genetics were shooting people for marrying people outside their religion, lynching blacks, and murdering gay people.

And if German immigrants to US in the 30s tried any Nazi shit here, the US immigration authorities would be derelict in their duties if they a) did not vet potential German immigrants for Nazi sympathies and b) did not deport Nazis after they served their sentences. Why are Syrians so damn special that neither of those things should apply to them?

But today that is no longer happening. It's almost like people are not slave to their culture and can learn their way past problematic elements for the good of society, given time

But why should Germany suffer this imported uncivilized and criminal element? #NotAllSyrians, of course, but if you let people migrate indiscriminately, this is what you get.
Germany should have been more selective in their migration policies.

 

[Derec]

Why is it noteworthy that some immigrants commit a crime, are caught and sentenced?

What is noteworthy that the entire family planned and a big fraction of them participated in the attempted murder Orient Express style.
What is also noteworthy is that this crime is a direct consequence of Angela Merkel's decision to allow open migration without restrictions or any checks and vetting of any kind. Remember, two years ago an Afghan migrant (Hussein Khavari) murdered a young German woman. He had a conviction for assault against a young woman in Greece but German authorities never bothered to check his criminal history when they allowed him to migrate.

It is also noteworthy because Germany refuses to deport to Syria, even for those who commit serious crimes and/or are extremists. And with relatively short prison sentences German courts impose, these crimigrants will be roaming German cities again in a few years. What Germany fails to understand is that Syria is not dangerous for people like this, Syria is dangerous because of people like this. And they are allowing to Germany to become a more dangerous place by importing many people like this and refusing to ever deport them.

If they had not immigrated,

They'd be Syria's problem, not Germany's. Not Europe's.

presumably the same love triangle and attack would have occurred in Syria, except maybe there would have been no crime.

Since the two teens met in Germany and Syria is a big place, that is unlikely. The girl would probably have stepped out with somebody else, but not with Mo.

Seems to me it was better for everyone that this occurred in Germany.

Except for Germany and especially German taxpayers. Germany had to pay for those peoples' social services when they came here, had to pay for Mo's treatment after they scalped him, they have now to pay to house the perps in prison and after a few years they'll be released but still allowed to live in Germany. Germany lost a lot in this deal. Migrants "worth more than gold" as Martin Schultz claimed? Hardly!

 

[Derec]

This sort of thing in the OP IS still happening in Syria and IS still a part of that culture. Your comparison point would be more relevant if Nazi Germany still existed and Israel was letting Germans into its country and a Nazi murdered a Jew there. Israel may want to put some safeguards in place against such Nazis entering its country.

So far, so good.

And it may do so by resorting to the same sort of group discrimination as Derec is advocating for here against Syrians.

I am not advocating "group discrimination" against Syrians or anybody else. Same rules should apply to everybody. However, given prevailing culture and attitudes in the Islamic World, if you apply the same standards you would have to reject a lot more Syrians, Afghans, Pakistanis etc. than you would Italians or Swedes.

Or at lease would want to have some good vetting in place, right?

That's what I agree with. Germany and the rest of EU simply let everybody in, without doing any due diligence. That is suicidal.
And especially when somebody has shown disregard to European societies by committing serious crimes and/or exhibited extremist attitudes, they should be deported.

 

[laughing dog]

What is noteworthy .....

All of which would have happened in Syria (and Germany is a big place as well). These criminals do not appear to be a danger to native Germans. Apparently, Germans though their government, have no problem with their laws and rules which govern sentences and deportation. Why should we believe you know more about what Germans want or need than their revealed preferences though their representative government?

 

[Derec]

My point is that this is the same bullshit that was used to oppress east Germans.

East Germans are actual Germans. There were familial ties across the innerdeutsche Grenze and the West and East Germans had a very similar culture. Remember, they were only separated by the iron curtain for ~40 years.
Syrians, Afghans, Pakistanis etc. that are flooding Germany and the rest of Europe are from a different continent, have a very different culture, very different values and have no reason to have any allegiance to the countries they settle in.

Germans accepted their Nazis and just told them to not be Nazis anymore, combined with a whole bunch of ongoing social education about why being a Nazi is bad.

But German Nazis were brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, uncles and aunts of other Germans. They did not all go to Syria and Syria was not expected to bear the consequences of having a lot of foreign Nazis living in their midst all of a sudden.
Why should Germany be expected to take care of uncivilized criminals from all over the world?

The way forward is not to be particularly suspicious of the "ex-Nazis" or "ex Syrians", or whatever. The point is to be better and welcoming to all, to produce proper social cohesion and trust, and participate in ongoing social education.

It is completely impossible to be "welcoming to all" in the sense of taking everybody who wants to move to Germany no matter who they are or how many people want to come. It is especially impossible to have any sense of "social cohesion" under such a scenario.
Your position on migration is completely bonkers I have to say.

 

[Derec]

All of which would have happened in Syria (and Germany is a big place as well).

Possibly, but they are Syrians and so it is natural for them to be Syria's problem. Not Germany's.

These criminals do not appear to be a danger to native Germans.

In this particular crime there were no Germans targeted. There were plenty of attacks on and murders of Germans at the hands of Merkel's Muslim mass migrants, including the murders of Maria Ladenburger, 19, and Mia V., 15.

Apparently, Germans though their government, have no problem with their laws and rules which govern sentences and deportation.

They have plenty of problems. Just a couple of weeks ago an Afghan crimigrant (30 convictions) was deported but Afghanistan sent him back. And that is even considering that number of deportations to Afghanistan is a small fraction of illegal Afghans that still keep coming. It is even worse with Syrians, who are not being deported no matter what crimes they commit.

Why should we believe you know more about what Germans want or need than their revealed preferences though their representative government?

I am very familiar with the situation in Germany, and btw, I lived there before.
You can see that more and more Germans are getting frustrated with their government. That only a Grand Coalition (think Republicans and Democrats having to share power) has a stable governing majority says a lot, as does the rise of the AfD party.
The problem in Germany that the conservative party (CDU) is being run by the very woman who originated this disastrous migration policy. The opposition candidate Martin Schulz (SPD) is even worse than her btw. So there really was no real choice for the electorate.

 

[ZiprHead]

Are there cases of German families settling in a different country and then trying to exterminate Jews like a bunch of Nazi Daleks? No? Then the comparison is invalid.

Never heard of Poland?

 

[laughing dog]

Possibly, but they are Syrians and so it is natural for them to be Syria's problem. Not Germany's.

Thank you for making my point - this is just another one of your "OMG immigrants are bad"

In this particular crime there were no Germans targeted. There were plenty of attacks on and murders of Germans at the hands of Merkel's Muslim mass migrants, including the murders of Maria Ladenburger, 19, and Mia V., 15.

Using that logic, we should have exterminate all the Germans after WWII.

They have plenty of problems...

Not enough to change the laws.

 

[Jarhyn]

Are there cases of German families settling in a different country and then trying to exterminate Jews like a bunch of Nazi Daleks? No? Then the comparison is invalid.
Also, if any German family did something like that, they should be deported back to their country of origin after serving their sentences. Furthermore, anybody trying to immigrate to another country should be vetted by their target country, including Germans, but also including Syrians.


And if German immigrants to US in the 30s tried any Nazi shit here, the US immigration authorities would be derelict in their duties if they a) did not vet potential German immigrants for Nazi sympathies and b) did not deport Nazis after they served their sentences. Why are Syrians so damn special that neither of those things should apply to them?

But today that is no longer happening. It's almost like people are not slave to their culture and can learn their way past problematic elements for the good of society, given time

But why should Germany suffer this imported uncivilized and criminal element? #NotAllSyrians, of course, but if you let people migrate indiscriminately, this is what you get.
Germany should have been more selective in their migration policies.

Most of your post makes no difference to my argument. My argument isn't about what we did here to the immigrants. What we did here and what they are doing today there doesn't mean those actions are right. The whole point is that Germany was literally chock full of actual Nazis at the end of WW2. Some even continued trying to make life hard for Jews. Some even committed crimes against the Jews after the war. In Germany. Germany, who cares about what the rest of the world, GERMANY had many individuals you might consider far worse than a few Islamic fundamentalist refugees. Yet somehow, through education and proper social engineering, Germany is still there, stronger than ever. They didn't need to keep out literal Nazis. They don't need to keep out syrians.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I also doubt that any of them will be deported after serving their sentences, because Syria is deemed "too dangerous". Danke Merkel!

This is definitely a problem over there. Refugees should be on their best behavior, deportation should be an option no matter how bad the place they came from.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What is noteworthy .....

All of which would have happened in Syria (and Germany is a big place as well). These criminals do not appear to be a danger to native Germans. Apparently, Germans though their government, have no problem with their laws and rules which govern sentences and deportation. Why should we believe you know more about what Germans want or need than their revealed preferences though their representative government?

In this case it happens that the victim was another refugee but note that they attempted to kill someone not of their family.

 

[Jarhyn]

I also doubt that any of them will be deported after serving their sentences, because Syria is deemed "too dangerous". Danke Merkel!

This is definitely a problem over there. Refugees should be on their best behavior, deportation should be an option no matter how bad the place they came from.

Why? As I JUST pointed out, Germany didn't have that option with all their own home-grown Nazis. Yet somehow the country survives and even thrives today. Of course, Nazis had to be on better behavior after the war, but that happened merely with the enforcement of domestic laws, to the extent t that normal people had to follow them, with the same consequences anyone else got for breaking them. Why should we expect worse outcomes for allowing Syrian refugees that are treated like anyone else than we got from literal Nazis from treating them like everyone else?

 

[Jarhyn]

I guess when actual arguments show up that reveal how ridiculous and hypocritical xenophobia really is, it scares away all the people who want to concern troll over the existence of immigrants who are a good shade *better* than a large fractions of German senior citizens.