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Suicide machines?

 High-G training -- existing human centrifuges are located in military bases and space research labs, and they are for training military pilots and astronauts. They can make enough acceleration to induce "g-loc", gravity loss of consciousness.

Watching Jet Pilots Train To Withstand G-Forces Is Just Too Intense
Learning Launchers: A Spin on Things -- Centrifuge | NASA
The G Machine | History | Air & Space Magazine
Centrifuge training | Vegitel -- a Russian one
How about a ride in the world’s biggest centrifuge? | Astronaut Class of 2009
NASA astronauts to under centrifuge training at Ohio base
Buy NASA's Human Training Centrifuge And Pretend You're An Astronaut


But I doubt that any of their operators would want to be associated with euthanasia by centrifuge.
 
barbos said:
Lack of oxygen does not cause immediate cellular death. Certainly not in organs other than brain.
Cellular death happens when oxygen supply is restored. Brain is of course is more complicated but even there there are cases of people being revived after being drowned (in cold water) for 20 minutes without brain damage.
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Yes, the real damage is done on the restoration of oxygen. It doesn't really matter, though, once you're unconscious it doesn't matter the exact process.

Note that the cold water (and, very occasionally, cold air) cases are a special situation, the oxygen demand is way down also. I've heard of surgeons deliberately stopping all blood flow for an hour and the patient made a full recovery. They were chilled way down for this. (This was a brain operation, they had no other option. Very high risk but not operating meant she wasn't going to be around for long.)
 
If you have the so-called 'right' to end your own life then you must also have the equivalent right to sell your own body parts to the highest bidder. Folks who make snuff films might be interested.

Can you believe there's an audience for that stuff?

Many jurisdictions say you only have the 'right' to die if you are sick.
Hmmm. Expensive sick people being granted the 'right' to stop being a burden to society.
Colour me cynical.
 
I cannot imagine any ideology other than an indefensibly fascistic and authoritarian one, where it would be either illegal or immoral to end one's life. And if it is not, then helping a person to do so would not in general be either, and in fact could often be a highly moral and selfless act. OTOH, there are situations where suicide is an irrational, self-destructive, irreversible choice people make in temporary moments of distress. These might even comprise a majority of suicides, and probably of suicide "attempts".
In these situations, it would be immoral to assist the person to execute such a decision. Whether it should be illegal is another more complicated matter. So, I think those who give such assistance have at least a moral obligation to ensure that the person they are assisting is not making a rash decision in response to some temporary event and has been given all other possible assistance to try and remedy the suffering that is prompting their suicidal desire.

In this light, I am uneasy about something like a rollercoaster of death that would make the process seem not merely without suffering but actually fun, and thus might lower the threshold for such a decision, possibly with some thrill seeking fools riding it with the delusion that they will survive it.
 
Lion IRC said:
If you have the so-called 'right' to end your own life then you must also have the equivalent right to sell your own body parts to the highest bidder.
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Show your work.

I have the right to give people legal advice. Goes with the whole First Amendment thingy. That doesn't mean I must also have the equivalent right to sell people legal advice. Goes with the whole "I don't believe that man's ever been to law school" thingy.

Many jurisdictions say you only have the 'right' to die if you are sick.
Hmmm. Expensive sick people being granted the 'right' to stop being a burden to society.
Colour me cynical.
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Many religions think up spurious post hoc pseudo-secular "justifications" for maintaining their arbitrary religious prohibitions after "God said it; I believe it; if you dispute the point we'll execute you for blasphemy." runs out of persuasiveness. Color me cynical.
 
Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts? Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors pleading for my right to "die with dignity".
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide

Here in Wa state there is assisted suicide damping on what you are afflicted with.

A few years back when I was in ICU with severe heart failure the cardiologists explained my condition, told me survival even with treatment was not certain, and if I wanted they would withhold treatment.

I believe suicide is a right. There is a point beyond which quality of life over rides living. I an DNR and DNI. Do not resuscitate, do not intubate, and no heroic lifesaving measures. I will be getting a bracket that says DNI DNR. If my heart stops I am done. I have seen what the result's of strokes and heart attacks can be. If I ended up like that would use assisted suicide.

A handgun is a machine, as is a noose. Whether you randomize when the machine functions or not is irrelevant.

We execute people when we deem it is right, we kill in war because we deem it right. Suicide to me is no different. With all the killing that goes on in war that we glorify, it is hypocritical to say ending one's own life is immoral.

Recent statistics around 20,000 people in USA suicide by gun every year.
 
Lion IRC said:
Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts?
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Because receiving money isn't an issue of bodily autonomy. (Typically. Of course there have been real-life situations where people were banned from receiving money as a method of controlling what they do with their bodies, e.g. Soviet-era "refuseniks". But "People can't buy your kidney." isn't in that category.)

Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors
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Well, strictly, you'd have to ask somebody who's in favor of the "only if you are sick" rule. IMHO, philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to healthy people too.

But if you want me to try to lay out other people's reasons for that position, I'll give it a go. To take it from their perspective, they're paternalistically deciding they know what's best for others and have the right to impose their will on another adult for his own good, i.e., they think a healthy person wanting to die is proof that he's mentally ill, incompetent to choose his own fate, and in need of intervention by kindly and wise strangers acting in loco parentis.

To take it from my third-party perspective, they're still half in the grip of three thousand years of Judeo-Christian religious propaganda that left an indelible mark on our culture even after we collectively rejected the "morality-equals-God's-will" premise underlying that propaganda. In a word, they've been trained since childhood to be squicked by suicide. The suffering of a guy with cancer is emotionally powerful enough to overcome that squick; the suffering of a depressed person isn't.

pleading for my right to "die with dignity".
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In the words of Dr. House, there's no such thing as dying with dignity.
 
Lion IRC said:
Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts? Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors pleading for my right to "die with dignity".
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Thank you for once again perfectly demonstrating why cults are so insidious and detrimental to humanity. I sincerely hope your death takes several years in a forgotten and run-down "home" and you experience nothing but agonizing pain that becomes a severe and devastating emotional and financial burden on your loved ones who will be forced to watch you deteriorate year after year after year into abuse-laden dementia until your brain is finally gone and you are reduced to little more than a machine-driven pulsating meat sack of pain and suffering. And then five years later you finally die. Praise the Lord! Amen!
 
Lion IRC said:
Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts? Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors pleading for my right to "die with dignity".
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My body parts are worth more than money, especially when it comes to such things as masturbation.
 
One does not need fancy suicide machines. An overdose of sedatives will do, painless and not messy for somebody else to deal with.
 
I was on morphine for a while. Probably not a bad way to go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia

Euthanasia is a loaded word with different contexts. Say euthanasia and images of Nazis eliminated those deemed weak comes to mind. Suicide is a choice.

Euthanasia may be applied to an abortion based on severe problems with a fetus that are not correctable or treatable after birth.

Eutrhanasia would be another thread.

The Jesus character essentially committed suicide. He chose a path certain to lead to execution. Christians insist today on proselytizing in areas hostile to Christians with high risk of death. They become elevated martyrs in Christianity. To me it is suicidal, a whish to die in the service of a god.

I have come to see alcohol;, drugs, and tobacco as a form of willful self destruction, a form of suicide.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
One does not need fancy suicide machines. An overdose of sedatives will do, painless and not messy for somebody else to deal with.
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Sure - if you can get them.

A lot of effort goes into making them very hard to get, particularly in sufficient quantity to assure death.

A large overdose of an opiate is also a good way to go; But again, is very hard to obtain (unless you have criminal connections).

And of course, both are potentially difficult for an infirm person to administer. Once you are in constant pain, such that you decide death is your best option, it's a bit late to go seeking out a heroin dealer, and quite likey you may not even be able to administer the drugs, even if you have them, without assistance.

The point of the suicide machine is to allow someone else to assist (by setting up the machine), while leaving the patient with the ultimate decision and action - which is a nice easy button press that even a severely ill person is able to do. It's a way to try to get around laws against homicide.

It's ridiculous that a veterinarian can be arrested and charged with cruelty for failing to end the life of a suffering animal; While a doctor can be arrested and charged with murder for ending the life of a suffering human. But such is the legacy of centuries of belief that a person's life belongs not to the individual, but to the church (as proxies for a God none of them can demonstrate to even exist).
 
bilby said:
But such is the legacy of centuries of belief that a person's life belongs not to the individual, but to the church (as proxies for a God none of them can demonstrate to even exist).
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Yes. For when we can institute procedures to eliminate abuse, they still oppose it.


Koyaanisqatsi said:
We treat our pets with more dignity and humanity than our own loved ones.
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Perhaps because of the above?
 
Rhea said:
bilby said:
But such is the legacy of centuries of belief that a person's life belongs not to the individual, but to the church (as proxies for a God none of them can demonstrate to even exist).
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Yes. For when we can institute procedures to eliminate abuse, they still oppose it.


Koyaanisqatsi said:
We treat our pets with more dignity and humanity than our own loved ones.
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Perhaps because of the above?
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No doubt.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
One does not need fancy suicide machines. An overdose of sedatives will do, painless and not messy for somebody else to deal with.
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Actually, most sedatives in use these days won't kill you, at least by themselves. (Combined with alcohol is another matter, though.) The medical community tries to avoid stuff where the therapeutic dose is at all close to the lethal dose. (Acetaminophen would never make it through modern drug testing standards because the ratio is only 10:1.)
 
steve_bank said:
I have come to see alcohol;, drugs, and tobacco as a form of willful self destruction, a form of suicide.
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That's silly. That would make every pleasurable act that carries health risk a form of suicide, including skiing, eating red meat, even staying single or getting divorced (married men live longer).
Drugs can be used to self destruct, but most of the time they are used for pleasure, with the user enjoying the experience of being alive while doing it and not interest not being alive. IOW, virtually the opposite psychology of suicide. How one prioritizes longevity versus immediate pleasurable experiences has nothing to due with how one values being alive.


Euthanasia would be another thread.
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Agreed, b/c when I hear "euthanasia", I think of this:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iQN3-t0tbA
[/URL]
 
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