Game of Thrones - Season 8 (spoilers)

[prideandfall]

Wut? I thought the last episode was perfect. They delivered exactly what they should have done. Denaerys is turning into her father, as foreshadowed and expected, and everybody supporting her regrets it. Jon Snow was of course destined to become king, because he's the only person in Westeros who doesn't want to become king. This is how you create tension in a show. This is schoolbook writing of how to do it. It's the perfect drama.

while technically true i think this misses the point rather entirely that the whole reason GoT is a popular book series in the first place and IMO a popular show is that it never followed schoolbook writing and it never acted like a show.
GoT just going through the same boring motions of "increase tension by teasing danger. cut away from danger at the last second. return to scene with danger abated" makes it stupid and trite and like every other show that already came before it, as does "increase tension by having a random thing happen that defies every conceivable rule of logic or established consistency both within the world of the show and the real world".

GoT wasn't exceptional because it was a big convoluted fantasy story, and it wasn't exceptional because it was a character drama (other shows do that way WAY better than GoT ever has) - it was exceptional because it's a pretty good convoluted fantasy story with decent character drama that wasn't a predictable boring mass of tropes, and it wasn't random unexplained batshit madness ala Lost.

now, it's NONE of those things, it's just a crapfest of horrid writing and nonsensical bullshit that happens to have a handful of recognizable people cosplaying characters we used to like.

I still think they pulled it off masterfully.

subjectively for your viewing experience i defer to you on this 100%, but on the level of any sort of critical analysis you're quite incorrect.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Wut? I thought the last episode was perfect. They delivered exactly what they should have done. Denaerys is turning into her father, as foreshadowed and expected, and everybody supporting her regrets it. Jon Snow was of course destined to become king, because he's the only person in Westeros who doesn't want to become king. This is how you create tension in a show. This is schoolbook writing of how to do it. It's the perfect drama.

while technically true i think this misses the point rather entirely that the whole reason GoT is a popular book series in the first place and IMO a popular show is that it never followed schoolbook writing and it never acted like a show.
GoT just going through the same boring motions of "increase tension by teasing danger. cut away from danger at the last second. return to scene with danger abated" makes it stupid and trite and like every other show that already came before it, as does "increase tension by having a random thing happen that defies every conceivable rule of logic or established consistency both within the world of the show and the real world".

GoT wasn't exceptional because it was a big convoluted fantasy story, and it wasn't exceptional because it was a character drama (other shows do that way WAY better than GoT ever has) - it was exceptional because it's a pretty good convoluted fantasy story with decent character drama that wasn't a predictable boring mass of tropes, and it wasn't random unexplained batshit madness ala Lost.

now, it's NONE of those things, it's just a crapfest of horrid writing and nonsensical bullshit that happens to have a handful of recognizable people cosplaying characters we used to like.

I disagree. The battles never made any sense. And Making Denaerys into a tyrant... that's cool. And makes sense. I thought this was the first episode of the last season that wasn't boring transport. Even the Battle of Winterfell I thought was a bit meh. Now I'm back on board.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You'd think that they'd take more care, considering the sheer popularity of the series and expectations of fans. What is it, incompetence? Rushing into production?

Wut? I thought the last episode was perfect. They delivered exactly what they should have done. Denaerys is turning into her father, as foreshadowed and expected, and everybody supporting her regrets it. Jon Snow was of course destined to become king, because he's the only person in Westeros who doesn't want to become king. This is how you create tension in a show. This is schoolbook writing of how to do it. It's the perfect drama.

Albeit on the rails now. They couldn't have written it any differently. I still think they pulled it off masterfully.

That would be the case except that Dany is not turning into her father in any way, shape or form. Her father wasn't a basically decent person who was in a pissy mood for a few weeks and then became a genocidal maniac. He was a basically decent person who had a slow descent into insanity over the course of many years and then became a genocidal maniac. They skipped the entire "progression" part of her character arc and just fast forwarded it to an end which wasn't set up by what came previously.

The thing it reminds me most of is Anakin Skywalker in the Star Wars prequels. He's tempted towards evil, provisionally accepts joining the Emperor in order to save the woman he loves and then, five minutes later, slaughters a group of children who were looking to him for protection. The last act is a jarring disconnect from everything about the character which had come before and was just straight up bad writing. It's the same with Dany. Yes, there were allusions to Targs suffering from insanity. Yes, there were scenes foreshadowing a darker nature within her. There was not, however, anything about her to indicate that "Hey, I'll murder tens of thousands of defenceless civilians today because I'm in a mood" was a viable option.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wut? I thought the last episode was perfect. They delivered exactly what they should have done. Denaerys is turning into her father, as foreshadowed and expected, and everybody supporting her regrets it. Jon Snow was of course destined to become king, because he's the only person in Westeros who doesn't want to become king. This is how you create tension in a show. This is schoolbook writing of how to do it. It's the perfect drama.

while technically true i think this misses the point rather entirely that the whole reason GoT is a popular book series in the first place and IMO a popular show is that it never followed schoolbook writing and it never acted like a show.
GoT just going through the same boring motions of "increase tension by teasing danger. cut away from danger at the last second. return to scene with danger abated" makes it stupid and trite and like every other show that already came before it, as does "increase tension by having a random thing happen that defies every conceivable rule of logic or established consistency both within the world of the show and the real world".

GoT wasn't exceptional because it was a big convoluted fantasy story, and it wasn't exceptional because it was a character drama (other shows do that way WAY better than GoT ever has) - it was exceptional because it's a pretty good convoluted fantasy story with decent character drama that wasn't a predictable boring mass of tropes, and it wasn't random unexplained batshit madness ala Lost.

now, it's NONE of those things, it's just a crapfest of horrid writing and nonsensical bullshit that happens to have a handful of recognizable people cosplaying characters we used to like.

I disagree. The battles never made any sense. And Making Denaerys into a tyrant... that's cool. And makes sense.

It would have made more sense for Cercei to give up, step down, bend the knee to Dany, and then show the two of them dancing merrily in the garden for an hour.

I thought this was the first episode of the last season that wasn't boring transport. Even the Battle of Winterfell I thought was a bit meh. Now I'm back on board.

The Battle of Winterfell suffered from the exact same problems as The Last Battle (except for lighting)... ie a random coherence with previous events and back story build up.

 

[bilby]

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[jab]

I think it is possible she didn't survive. They don't show her getting up from the ground... just her standing up. The horse just standing there seemed odd. However, surviving the fire (which burnt everyone to a char) could mean she has some Daenerys powers too. It is never explained how Daenerys actually has such an ability, I don't think. It'd be interesting if Arya is caught and "toasted" by the dragon, but when the flames are gone, she is left brushing some ash off her outfit.

But this might be grasping at straws for a decent plot twist... based on the recent past for GoT, she probably will just try to kill the Mother of Dragons.

Another Greyjoy (second cousin) shows up?

Ultimately, for Snow to take charge, it isn't enough to kill Dany. Her army is brutally devoted to her... and they had no issue killing civilians.

The unsullied are clockwork soldiers. They don't have loyalty, they have an owner.

The rest of the army are going to be pretty pissed off that she decided to launch a strategic air strike against a city while they themselves were still standing in it, even if they are unmoved by the fate of the citizens and enemy forces who were trying to surrender at the time.

I think, perhaps, she was trying to kill Jon

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Oddly enough, did they show her after her Disco Inferno moment?

 

[jab]

I think Daenerys pulled a Gandalf. She went high above the clouds and then came down in a ray with the direction of the sun. You could see the sun glare on the dragon for an instant only. Also, there was a bit of talk about attacking after daybreak which is probably why. It would have been great if all this were explained. But I am not sure this explains why every Scorpion was a failure...

The rest I think the main factor was surprise as they seemed to be waiting for a frontal assault. The Scorpions would be facing the wrong way.

It would seem that attacking at night would have been a better idea. Can't shoot a dragon you don't see.

true, and the dragons did okay during the battle at Winterfell, very much in the dark. (though one got rather torn up during the battle, making it less able to dodge the bolts from the surprise scorpion attack by boat).

 

[jab]

Well, she was dumb and irrational enough to fry the whole city, and she was feeling hurt, betrayed, rejected and threatened by Jon on all levels.

 

[jab]

re. the impossibility of killing the dragons, bad tactics: one of the dragons--the one that got killed in the ambush was injured--had damaged wing. However, I'm not sure why the other dragon was not made to toast a few ships on its way out of there, Day cut and ran, and abandoned her followers, including the ex-slave who got captured.

 

[jab]

So, we are well into Season 8 and the only thing that comes mind is "what the hell is with this crap?"

7 years of character development -> thrown away
Situational significances -> irrelevant
Plot development -> fuck it

Let's substitute plot consistency with lazy ass writing that introduces us to ignoring basic common sense and welcoming very ridiculous coincidences, each one right after the other. Throw away notions of explaining a resolution of a known conflict, it'll just be fine.

I feared Season 8 was in for trouble, and in general, it has had little pay off.

Season 7 was so bad that I had few hopes for this season, and after season 3 or thereabouts, I knew this was a wildly uneven show spiralling down down down in quality; Aside from the continuity- chronology-challenged Season 7, we had the uniformly badly written badly acted sideshow of the sand snakes, the redundancy of not one, but 2 sadistic princelings, the second of whose cruelties were gloatingly drawn out on screen over episode after weary episode, Meliasndre, the fan-driven resurrection of Jon Snow (and then his Season 7 unbelievable escape from the North); the contradictory touting of the long winter, long night, which appeared at first to be a regular cosmological event, predictable at long time intervals, but now seems to be some mystic deal associated with the Night King (instead of he being the Long Night's creature).
Season 8 first five episodes: I like the first 3, especially the third--didn't turn out quite the way I wanted, but it turned out--I saw this dark espidoe on a big screen tv and liked the use of darkness. I was just fine with Arya killing the Night King, though I didn't suspect it. But for me, the long Winter/ Night, and its related ice zombie invasion, was the main issue in the overarching stories, and one theme was how foolish and petty the pursuit of the throne was in relation to this threat, so for me, I would have preferred everything else got wrapped up in one final episode. Episode 4 was a bit boring and scattered--should have had more on tactics for taking the capital, and episode 5, aside from Arya's incredible escape (hey maybe Jamie and Sis Queen will be able rise from the rubble in episode 6!), was so so. I didn't think Dany's tragic descent into vengeful, frenzied madness was well presented, though believable in the abstract. The writing on this show has not very good for awhile, and the actress had neither the power nor the consummate skill to drive home the tragic change despite the bad writing (and having to do some of the acting of the change while semi-recumbent on a dragon's back against a green screen). In contrast, Lena H., a better actress, was able to drive home her character's badly written, tearful quailing change.
I don't care who gets the iron throne--though the toughest-minded ending would be Queen Dany successfully exerting a hegemony of fear, with perhaps a pocket of Stark resistance in the wintery North.

 

[OLDMAN]

Shit, you guys haven't figured out that Jon and Danny are going to go back to the north and abdicate the throne? It is painfully obvious the either Sansa and Tyrion or Avy and her bo are going to sit on the throne...maybe both couples rule a divided kingdom. Sorry if this spoiler spoils the whole mess. Poor writing is to blame.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It's going to be revealed that Tyrion is a Targareon, too, and he and Sansa will take the throne. But first we will see a lot of nudity and violence, also random explosions. Because.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

I was hoping during the Jaime-Cersei reunion that at some point Arya removes the Jaime face and stabs Cersei. She could have found him dying on her way down after she split from the Hound. Missed opportunity IMO.

aa

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I was hoping during the Jaime-Cersei reunion that at some point Arya removes the Jaime face and stabs Cersei. She could have found him dying on her way down after she split from the Hound. Missed opportunity IMO.

aa

I don’t know. You can’t just have Arya killing all the bad guys. The Jaime storyline wrapped up nicely with just him and Cersei there and you didn’t need some random other character just inserting herself into the scene.

 

[jab]

I was hoping during the Jaime-Cersei reunion that at some point Arya removes the Jaime face and stabs Cersei. She could have found him dying on her way down after she split from the Hound. Missed opportunity IMO.

aa

I don’t know. You can’t just have Arya killing all the bad guys. The Jaime storyline wrapped up nicely with just him and Cersei there and you didn’t need some random other character just inserting herself into the scene.

but, but, are we sure they're dead?

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

I was hoping during the Jaime-Cersei reunion that at some point Arya removes the Jaime face and stabs Cersei. She could have found him dying on her way down after she split from the Hound. Missed opportunity IMO.

aa

I don’t know. You can’t just have Arya killing all the bad guys.

I could. She had a list and after pardoning the Hound, she was the last one on the list.

The Jaime storyline wrapped up nicely with just him and Cersei there and you didn’t need some random other character just inserting herself into the scene.

I was fine with it, but I would have rather had Arya standing over that lannister and severing her head from her body the same way her father's was. And would have been fine if Arya had died in the dragon napalm thunderdome thereafter. At least she finished what she set out to do. Now I'm kind of lost on the Arya storyline - does she even want to be an assassin any more?

aa

 

[prideandfall]

in 16 hours:
1. jon will stab dany but she fucks off with her dragon never to be seen again, and he ends up being exiled to the night's watch even though the night's watch doesn't exist anymore, and then shows up in the north with tormund and ghost.
2. everyone will randomly elect bran as the new king of westeros.
3. half the episode will be a montage of "riding off into the sunset" for the other characters.
4. at least part of the episode will be intended to be a tease for prequels and spinoffs.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

in 16 hours:
1. jon will stab dany but she fucks off with her dragon never to be seen again, and he ends up being exiled to the night's watch even though the night's watch doesn't exist anymore, and then shows up in the north with tormund and ghost.
2. everyone will randomly elect bran as the new king of westeros.
3. half the episode will be a montage of "riding off into the sunset" for the other characters.
4. at least part of the episode will be intended to be a tease for prequels and spinoffs.

Fairly accurate. Where'd you get that info?