The Tragic history of "I can't breathe."

[southernhybrid]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/28/us/i-cant-breathe-police-arrest.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

The deaths of Eric Garner in New York and George Floyd in Minnesota created national outrage over the use of deadly police restraints. There were many others you didn’t hear about.

Many of the cases suggest a widespread belief that persists in departments across the country that a person being detained who says “I can’t breathe” is lying or exaggerating, even if multiple officers are using pressure to restrain the person. Police officers, who for generations have been taught that a person who can talk can also breathe, regularly cited that bit of conventional wisdom to dismiss complaints of arrestees who were dying in front of them, records and interviews show.

That dubious claim was photocopied and posted on a bulletin board at the Montgomery County Jail in Dayton, Ohio, in 2018. “If you can talk then you obviously can [expletive] breathe,” the sign said.

Federal officials have long warned about factors that can cause suffocations in custody, and for the past five years, a federal law has required local police agencies to report all in-custody deaths to the Justice Department or face the loss of federal law enforcement funding.

But while the cases of Mr. Garner and Mr. Floyd shocked the nation, dozens of other incidents with a remarkable common denominator have gone widely unacknowledged. Over the past decade, The New York Times found, at least 70 people have died in law enforcement custody after saying the same words — “I can’t breathe.” The dead ranged in age from 19 to 65. The majority of them had been stopped or held over nonviolent infractions, 911 calls about suspicious behavior, or concerns about their mental health. More than half were black.

Dozens of videos, court documents, autopsies and police reports reviewed in these cases — involving a range of people who died in confrontations with officers on the street, in local jails or in their homes — show a pattern of aggressive tactics that ignored prevailing safety precautions while embracing dubious science that suggested that people pleading for air do not need urgent intervention.

In some of the “I can’t breathe” cases, officers restrained detainees by the neck, hogtied them, Tased them multiple times or covered their heads with mesh hoods designed to prevent spitting or biting. Most frequently, officers pushed them face down on the ground and held them prone with their body weight.

I will let those who are interested read the entire long article, but the point is that far too many people are being killed by the police. A far larger percentage of black men are victims when one considers that the percentage of black Americans is only about 13%, and there were also a large percentage of Hispanic men killed, but white people are also victims of being killed by the police. To me, it's obvious that our police are out of control and are using extremely aggressive and/or violent means when they arrest people. Some of it is due to ignorance, but a lot of it seems to be due to hatred, prejudice etc.

The NYTImes found about 70 cases where the police killed victims who were usually only being accused of trivial things. One was stopped for riding a bike without a light. Some were mentally ill and needed help or were experiencing untoward reactions to drugs they had taken. In some cases, family members had called 911 expecting medical help to arrive, only to have the police arrive and end up killing the person who needed help.

I just hope that as more of these improper police actions are brought to light, that something will change. Very few police have been brought to justice so far. I hope that changes. I hope that more deadly procedures will be outlawed and that when a person says that he can't breathe, that will be taken seriously.

If the mods think this should be added to an already existing thread, please put it where you think it fits best.

 

[Rhea]

This is important to highlight. Thank you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Finding other legitimate examples doesn't mean prisoners do not routinely exaggerate or make up medical issues.

 

[Derec]

I wonder how many people say "I can't breathe" to police and we do not know about it because they are fine.

 

[laughing dog]

Finding other legitimate examples doesn't mean prisoners do not routinely exaggerate or make up medical issues.

Does not mean they do as well.

 

[bigfield]

Finding other legitimate examples doesn't mean prisoners do not routinely exaggerate or make up medical issues.

"We should ignore deaths in custody because some arrestees lie."

I wonder how many people say "I can't breathe" to police and we do not know about it because they are fine.

"We should ignore deaths in custody because some arrestees survive police brutality."

 

[southernhybrid]

Well, it's obvious that those who have racist tendencies are often so closed minded that all the evidence in the world won't help them accept that the police and prison guards often kill people for the fuck of it. It's mind boggling.

 

[James Brown]

Asking unfalsifiable questions is a fun way of introducing reasonable doubt into a serious but contentious discussion.

 

[Derec]

"We should ignore deaths in custody because some arrestees lie."

We should not ignore it, but it does explain why police and correctional officers are skeptical when people claim they can't breathe.

"We should ignore deaths in custody because some arrestees survive police brutality."

My point was that often arrestees will lie when there is no police brutality.

 

[Lion IRC]

....far too many people are being killed by the police

"The Police" are not institutionally killing people.

Some people (who are mean, racist, hateful, violent, psychologically unstable) work as police officers and those individuals are the ones killing people.

And unless you are into unfounded, irrational conspiracy theories, "The Police" do not approve of deaths in custody. Its not 'policy' to choke people to death.

 

[J842P]

....far too many people are being killed by the police

"The Police" are not institutionally killing people.

Some people (who are mean, racist, hateful, violent, psychologically unstable) work as police officers and those individuals are the ones killing people.

And unless you are into unfounded, irrational conspiracy theories, "The Police" do not approve of deaths in custody. Its not 'policy' to choke people to death.

The police routinely cover up deaths, lie about the circumstances of deaths in their custody, and are almost never held accountable. You don't need any crazy conspiracy theory for that to be true. That is how most institutions operate, if they can get away with it.

 

[laughing dog]

"We should ignore deaths in custody because some arrestees lie."

We should not ignore it, but it does explain why police and correctional officers are skeptical when people claim they can't breathe.

But should not excuse it.

My point was that often arrestees will lie when there is no police brutality.

So? Police officers often lie as well when there is police brutality.

 

[Lion IRC]

Hey look everybody!
I'm teaching a bunch of clear-thinking, rational skeptics about logical fallacies.

Guilt by association fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

John is a con artist. John has black hair. Therefore, all people with black hair are con artists.

No true police person would ever agree #BLM
Right?

 

[Treedbear]

...

My point was that often arrestees will lie when there is no police brutality.

So? Police officers often lie as well when there is police brutality.

Hey look everybody!
I'm teaching a bunch of clear-thinking, rational skeptics about logical fallacies.

Guilt by association fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

John is a con artist. John has black hair. Therefore, all people with black hair are con artists.

No true police person would ever agree #BLM
Right?

Were you talking about Derec, or laughing dog?

 

[bigfield]

"We should ignore deaths in custody because some arrestees lie."

We should not ignore it, but it does explain why police and correctional officers are skeptical when people claim they can't breathe.

"We should ignore deaths in custody because some arrestees survive police brutality."

My point was that often arrestees will lie when there is no police brutality.

I get it: you're just making excuses for police and correctional officers who kill people. The prisoner who lies about asphyxiating is to blame for the death of the prisoner who really cannot breathe. No need to fix the way officers do their jobs, no need to discipline officers who don't do their jobs properly, and no way to stop prisoners from lying, so we should just accept that officers are going to accidentally kill people from time to time.

 

[southernhybrid]

....far too many people are being killed by the police

"The Police" are not institutionally killing people.

Some people (who are mean, racist, hateful, violent, psychologically unstable) work as police officers and those individuals are the ones killing people.

And unless you are into unfounded, irrational conspiracy theories, "The Police" do not approve of deaths in custody. Its not 'policy' to choke people to death.

You don't live in the US, and you have no idea how much of a problem this has become here. Nobody is claiming that every single police officer or even that every city in the US has a corrupt, careless police department, but it's a huge problem.

Part of it stems from the militarization of our police departments that started over 20 years ago. When police are given military equipment, sometimes they feel as if the citizens are the enemy, instead of being the very people who they were hired to protect and serve. Another problem is training. I've watched videos of some types of training. The police are encouraged to use unnecessary force. Some training has racist undertones. And, sadly, our own so called president has instigated some of this as well. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers Trump telling the police not to treat suspects gently, not to worry about banging their heads when they are forced into police cars. Finally, too many police treat innocent people as if they are suspects, simply because of the way that they look, walk or dress.

My heart breaks every time I see that man in Colorado, or was it in Arizona who was simply walking home from the store wearing a ski mask because he was cold. He was stopped by the police because he "looked suspicious". Iv'e seen the video. He simply looked like a young man, maybe slightly offbeat with his mask, but not in the least bit scary or suspicious looking. He was a gentle, kind man who did charity work, but became anxious very easily. He begged the police not to harm him, but he died due to the inappropriate actions of the police. There have been far too many of these incidents here and it needs to stop.

There have been some police departments that have changed drastically. The best example I know if is Camden, NJ. Camden was once a very high crime city with a lot of problematic actions from the police. It's a majority black city as well. I don't have time right now to find a link, but Camden changed the way the city policed. it offered mental health counselors or social workers to respond to those afflicted with mental illnesses, or drug issues. As a result, the crime rate went down and afaik, there haven't been the same type of inappropriate behavior committed by the police.

I'm an older white female and the police make me nervous, as I feel as if we are on the verge of a police state. I can only imagine how a minority person feels when they are around the police. Something needs to change! Some here seem to hide their heads in the sand or won't consider the evidence because they only believe what they want to believe. But, the sad fact is that we have a terrible problem with inappropriate policing in many parts of the US.

And, I haven't even mentioned all of the sexual assaults that have been committed by the police in recent years, as right now, we are all focused on the killing of suspects who are unarmed and in many cases without any history of ever committing an act of violence.

 

[Keith&Co.]

You don't live in the US, and you have no idea how much of a problem this has become here.

Meh. The Police Force, like The Church, is something Lion wants to be able to believe in. No amount of explaining will change his need to convince himself that such institutions are trustworthy, that the bad actors don't take salt in their porridge, and any critics are all exaggerating, at the worst, and at best at least a little complicit in the situationsvthey're complaining about.
Because then he needs do nothing, not even sanction anyone else's efforts.

I