Restrict aid if Israel annexes any of the West Bank?

[steve_bank]

What we call Palestinians were recruited by Arabs to fight the Jews. When the Jews prevailed and Israel was established the Palestinians were abandoned. To the oil Arabs they are poor trailer trash so to speak. They are pawns to the Arabs and Iran.

 

[Arctish]

It is when Derec talks about forcing people out of their communities because of their ethnic and religious identity.



Before there was a British Mandate the population of Palestine was roughly 10% Jewish, 30% Christian, and 60% Muslim.They were a single indigenous Semitic population with three major faith groups, not three separate peoples. They all moved about freely and there was a market for their goods both within Palestine and in Europe.

Twenty five years later when the State of Israel declared its existence, the population was roughly 30% Jewish due to a huge influx of mostly illegal European immigrants. Derec says the Jews were 'supposed' to get all of the land west of the Jordan River. As it was, they got more than half of it, mostly by driving out the indigenous people and seizing it at gunpoint. This was not random. It was done according to plans developed by the Jewish Agency for Palestine in the 1930s and early 1940s.

Make no mistake, ethnic cleansing was the plan all along. Derec is saying Israel should finish the job. And we all know where that kind of thinking leads.

It is far too complicated to address in short posts. I do not agree with th settlemnts. However look at the region.

Jordan annexed th West Bank ending in civil war.
Fatah and Hams hada civil war.
The Lebanese Civil WarSyria
Saudi Arabia vs ran, goes back centuries
Egypt
Libya
Iraq

You forgot to mention the British and French scheming to gain control of the region by playing tribes and political factions against each other, which they did during the early part of the last century.

And you are completely ignoring the point that the Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Christians, and Palestinian Muslims of the early 20th century were a single ethnic group living in their ancestral homeland.

Derec is saying Israel should complete the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians who don't worship Biblegod the way his preferred faction does. What do you think of his idea?

Even without Israel and our haphtara interventions the region would still be a mess. Arafat leftEgypt and went to Jordan to crer conflict. It is like he went to a college job fair and chose extremism.

Look at a wall map of the region. Israel is a tiny island of stability in a sea of chaos and violence.

A lot of aid has gone into Gaza and the West Bank. Where did it all go? Arafat died a rich man.

Israel formed before I was born. Looking at the Holocaust and other issued ft nothing else it is understandable that the Jews created a state and defended itself.

Where is the global outrage of Turkish treatment of Kurds? Egyptian purging of Coptics?

The outrage against Israel is elective morality. It is an easy target. The long standing undercurrent of anti Semitism is undoubtedly part of it.

The question of whether the United States should withhold aid to Israel if it annexes more of the West Bank is independent of what we think about what's happening in other parts of the Middle East.

And that old saw about it being anti-Semitic to not give Israel all the money it wants is bullshit. Palestinians are Semitic. Is it anti-Semitic to not give them all the money they want?

Every single one of us has a moral responsibility to consider whether the aid we give others is being used, directly or indirectly, to commit moral outrages, and if so, what to do about it. IMO ethnic cleansing is a moral outrage. I don't support it, and I don't want US taxpayer dollars to enable it.

 

[steve_bank]

You forgot to mention the British and French scheming to gain control of the region by playing tribes and political factions against each other, which they did during the early part of the last century.

And you are completely ignoring the point that the Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Christians, and Palestinian Muslims of the early 20th century were a single ethnic group living in their ancestral homeland.

Derec is saying Israel should complete the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians who don't worship Biblegod the way his preferred faction does. What do you think of his idea?

Even without Israel and our haphtara interventions the region would still be a mess. Arafat leftEgypt and went to Jordan to crer conflict. It is like he went to a college job fair and chose extremism.

Look at a wall map of the region. Israel is a tiny island of stability in a sea of chaos and violence.

A lot of aid has gone into Gaza and the West Bank. Where did it all go? Arafat died a rich man.

Israel formed before I was born. Looking at the Holocaust and other issued ft nothing else it is understandable that the Jews created a state and defended itself.

Where is the global outrage of Turkish treatment of Kurds? Egyptian purging of Coptics?

The outrage against Israel is elective morality. It is an easy target. The long standing undercurrent of anti Semitism is undoubtedly part of it.

The question of whether the United States should withhold aid to Israel if it annexes more of the West Bank is independent of what we think about what's happening in other parts of the Middle East.

And that old saw about it being anti-Semitic to not give Israel all the money it wants is bullshit. Palestinians are Semitic. Is it anti-Semitic to not give them all the money they want?

Every single one of us has a moral responsibility to consider whether the aid we give others is being used, directly or indirectly, to commit moral outrages, and if so, what to do about it. IMO ethnic cleansing is a moral outrage. I don't support it, and I don't want US taxpayer dollars to enable it.

I am ignoring nothing. My point is if you evaluate Israel do so n the context of environment and history. If you try to impose some sort of absolute moral template then nothing will meet your standards.

Progressives want to depose Columbus, yet ignore how native peoples treated each either from North to South America. War, slavery, subjugation . Civilizations like Inca.

Apply your moral template to all of history, cultures, and civilizations.

 

[Arctish]

You forgot to mention the British and French scheming to gain control of the region by playing tribes and political factions against each other, which they did during the early part of the last century.

And you are completely ignoring the point that the Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Christians, and Palestinian Muslims of the early 20th century were a single ethnic group living in their ancestral homeland.

Derec is saying Israel should complete the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians who don't worship Biblegod the way his preferred faction does. What do you think of his idea?

Even without Israel and our haphtara interventions the region would still be a mess. Arafat leftEgypt and went to Jordan to crer conflict. It is like he went to a college job fair and chose extremism.

Look at a wall map of the region. Israel is a tiny island of stability in a sea of chaos and violence.

A lot of aid has gone into Gaza and the West Bank. Where did it all go? Arafat died a rich man.

Israel formed before I was born. Looking at the Holocaust and other issued ft nothing else it is understandable that the Jews created a state and defended itself.

Where is the global outrage of Turkish treatment of Kurds? Egyptian purging of Coptics?

The outrage against Israel is elective morality. It is an easy target. The long standing undercurrent of anti Semitism is undoubtedly part of it.

The question of whether the United States should withhold aid to Israel if it annexes more of the West Bank is independent of what we think about what's happening in other parts of the Middle East.

And that old saw about it being anti-Semitic to not give Israel all the money it wants is bullshit. Palestinians are Semitic. Is it anti-Semitic to not give them all the money they want?

Every single one of us has a moral responsibility to consider whether the aid we give others is being used, directly or indirectly, to commit moral outrages, and if so, what to do about it. IMO ethnic cleansing is a moral outrage. I don't support it, and I don't want US taxpayer dollars to enable it.

I am ignoring nothing. My point is if you evaluate Israel do so n the context of environment and history. If you try to impose some sort of absolute moral template then nothing will meet your standards.

Then don't leave out the most important part of the history: the people whose history it is!

Progressives want to depose Columbus, yet ignore how native peoples treated each either from North to South America. War, slavery, subjugation . Civilizations like Inca.

Apply your moral template to all of history, cultures, and civilizations.

Sure.

I oppose ethnic cleansing campaigns, past and present, and am opposed to the US providing aid to governments carrying them out when that money is known or reasonably suspected of allowing those governments to devote resources to those campaigns.

Were you under the impression that I would be okay with millions of dollars in aid going to Ukrainians carrying out a pogrom? Or to Myanmar so the campaign against the Rohingya is more affordable? Because I'm not.

Derec is saying Israel should complete the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians who don't worship Biblegod the way his preferred faction does. What do you think of his idea?