This week in Woke: Actresses justly cancelled for committing atrocities

[ZiprHead]

No, it isn't, and that isn't what cis people are doing.

You see, artists create stories, and they have every right to create whatever stories they want.

Halle Berry didn't create this story. A writer did. The writer may be a trans person, I have no idea if that is so since i cannot even find the name of the movie.

 

[Bomb#20]

Did you ask Ms. Berry what she thinks?

<crickets>

So you said "Ah, silly me, asking a woman what she thinks." even though you hadn't asked her what she thought, then?

A couple of hundred years ago, two 20-something gentlemen -- later famous scientists -- sailed around the world on HMS Beagle. In Brazil, " ...Darwin was horrified at tales of the treatment of slaves. FitzRoy, while not endorsing brutality, recounted how an estancia owner once asked his slaves if they wished to be free and was told they did not. Darwin asked FitzRoy if he thought slaves could answer such a question honestly when it was posed by their master, at which the captain lost his temper and, before storming out, told Darwin that if he doubted his word they could no longer live together..."

I should have remembered to ask a middle aged man on the internet what she thinks.

Why did you write that? Did a middle aged man on the internet claim to know what she thinks?

I know Mrs. Berry

Ms. Berry isn't married; Berry is her maiden name.

is black, but that does not make her a slave. Such confusion of centuries swirling around in your head!

You are the confused one. Nobody said she's a slave. It was an analogy.

Ms. Berry's public remarks after the incident are analogous to the slaves' statement that they did not wish to be free, because both Ms. Berry's and the slaves' statements were made in the hearing of people who wanted to hear those statements and had the power to punish the respective speakers if they did not hear those respective statements. Consequently, the respective statements were made under duress. Statements made under duress are notoriously unreliable. Statements made under duress are worthless as evidence of a speaker's true beliefs.

In case you're still having trouble grokking the pieces of the analogy, you are analogous to Captain Fitzroy here.

 

[Politesse]

Under duress? What the hell are you talking about? It's her personal Twitter, and there's no indication that anyone did anything more serious than vocally objecting to the theoretical course of action. I'm supposed to believe your testimony over her own, why?

 

[Bomb#20]

Under duress? What the hell are you talking about? It's her personal Twitter, and there's no indication that anyone did anything more serious than vocally objecting to the theoretical course of action. I'm supposed to believe your testimony over her own, why?

"Believe my testimony"?!? What planet are you on? You are no more supposed to "believe my testimony" than Fitzroy was supposed to "believe Darwin's testimony" that the slaves might be saying what their master wanted to hear to protect themselves from reprisal. You are supposed to consider the facts of the situation and apply at least three seconds of critical thought to the position Ms. Berry found herself in.

 

[Politesse]

Under duress? What the hell are you talking about? It's her personal Twitter, and there's no indication that anyone did anything more serious than vocally objecting to the theoretical course of action. I'm supposed to believe your testimony over her own, why?

"Believe my testimony"?!? What planet are you on? You are no more supposed to "believe my testimony" than Fitzroy was supposed to "believe Darwin's testimony" that the slaves might be saying what their master wanted to hear to protect themselves from reprisal. You are supposed to consider the facts of the situation and apply at least three seconds of critical thought to the position Ms. Berry found herself in.

What position?

 

[Metaphor]

No, it isn't, and that isn't what cis people are doing.

You see, artists create stories, and they have every right to create whatever stories they want.

Halle Berry didn't create this story. A writer did. The writer may be a trans person, I have no idea if that is so since i cannot even find the name of the movie.

No, Halle Berry didn't create the story, and neither will the actor that replaces her. But Halle Berry was offered the role by a director or casting director; she was invited to contribute her skills to the film.

 

[Metaphor]

No, I didn't make the statement as if I were 'owed' anything.

Yes, you did. You might want to understand that when you start talking about 'profits' and being 'cut out', this is the language of somebody who thinks they're owed (morally or monetarily).

Or are you intending to play me in a little drama you are staging? Such a little artist, you.

No. I'm not trying to compel you to do anything. Perhaps you should go back and read your own statements, and then tell me what you think 'profiting off us' and 'cutting us out' conveys.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

No, I didn't make the statement as if I were 'owed' anything.

Yes, you did. You might want to understand that when you start talking about 'profits' and being 'cut out', this is the language of somebody who thinks they're owed (morally or monetarily).

No, it literally is the language to say what I said. You cannot win arguments by inserting things into other people's statements. Of course, you are using the language of people who screw goats, so what can we expect, amirite?

No. I'm not trying to compel you to do anything.

I didn't say anything about you compelling me to do anything.

Perhaps you should go back and read your own statements, and then tell me what you think 'profiting off us' and 'cutting us out' conveys.

I'm aware of what I said. It's very literal. Maybe try reading it without shoving the word 'owed' into it? (Or don't bother. I'm sure you're just going to look for more reasons to lapse into theatrics).

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Under duress? What the hell are you talking about? It's her personal Twitter, and there's no indication that anyone did anything more serious than vocally objecting to the theoretical course of action. I'm supposed to believe your testimony over her own, why?

"Believe my testimony"?!? What planet are you on? You are no more supposed to "believe my testimony" than Fitzroy was supposed to "believe Darwin's testimony" that the slaves might be saying what their master wanted to hear to protect themselves from reprisal. You are supposed to consider the facts of the situation and apply at least three seconds of critical thought to the position Ms. Berry found herself in.

What position?

Bomb#20 already explained it. As he pointed out, her statements " were made in the hearing of people who wanted to hear those statements and had the power to punish the respective speakers if they did not hear those respective statements. Consequently, the respective statements were made under duress. Statements made under duress are notoriously unreliable. Statements made under duress are worthless as evidence of a speaker's true beliefs."

Obviously, the punishment she would have suffered had she not made them (or similar ones) is a lot less than the punishment the slaves in the analogy would have suffered. But she would still have suffered - almost certainly - pretty significant punishment in the context of her career and personal life. The Woke are a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Politesse]

Recourse to vagueness, since you know how stupid your analogy would sound if you compared a getting a few bad reviews to being beaten to death. And you've still presented no actual evidence to support your accusation that Berry is lying.about her true feelings on the matter.

 

[KeepTalking]

Recourse to vagueness, since you know how stupid your analogy would sound if you compared a getting a few bad reviews to being beaten to death. And you've still presented no actual evidence to support your accusation that Berry is lying.about her true feelings on the matter.

Haven't you heard? Woke is the new McCarthyism, only 10 times worse, so obviously this is extreme duress, and is tantamount to torture.

You can tell how bad it is by how "The Woke" (scare quotes for effect) have totally silenced the voice of outlets like the Daily Mail, not to mention the little guys like Metaphor and Bomb. They have been so cancelled, it is sickening to watch. The horror!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What position?

Bomb#20 already explained it. As he pointed out, her statements " were made in the hearing of people who wanted to hear those statements and had the power to punish the respective speakers if they did not hear those respective statements. Consequently, the respective statements were made under duress. Statements made under duress are notoriously unreliable. Statements made under duress are worthless as evidence of a speaker's true beliefs."

Obviously, the punishment she would have suffered had she not made them (or similar ones) is a lot less than the punishment the slaves in the analogy would have suffered. But she would still have suffered - almost certainly - pretty significant punishment in the context of her career and personal life. The Woke are a force to be reckoned with.

So if she says she disagrees with them, they'll take her words at face value, and if she says anything else, it is under duress and she agrees with what they believe.

 

[Politesse]

Er, I'm pretty sure Halle Berry isn't "anti-woke" on general principle.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Recourse to vagueness, since you know how stupid your analogy would sound if you compared a getting a few bad reviews to being beaten to death. And you've still presented no actual evidence to support your accusation that Berry is lying.about her true feelings on the matter.

Haven't you heard? Woke is the new McCarthyism, only 10 times worse, so obviously this is extreme duress, and is tantamount to torture.

You can tell how bad it is by how "The Woke" (scare quotes for effect) have totally silenced the voice of outlets like the Daily Mail, not to mention the little guys like Metaphor and Bomb. They have been so cancelled, it is sickening to watch. The horror!

The Daily Mail is actually one of ours. We use it to lure out wrongthinkers like moths to a flame. Our operatives haven't been able to locate the other two to take them to the reeducation camp.

Halle Berry though? If her career survived Catwoman, what could we hope to do to her?

 

[repoman]

I am still pissed at the shit said about Iron Eyes Cody

 

[ronburgundy]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...celled-not-late-fight-says-JOHN-HUMPHRYS.html

It’s even happened to Jodie Comer, the brilliant actor who plays Villanelle in the hit BBC TV series Killing Eve.

Look, this cancellation is actually fair. What did she expect when she married literally Hitler?

So, by "cancelled", you mean that some people on Twitter criticized Comer's decision to date a supporter of anti-LGBT policies while playing an LGBT role, even when such criticism has no impact on the person's job. By your own definition, you have "cancelled" Halle Berry by criticizing her for apologizing and withdrawing from the role, claiming it shows she doesn't know what acting is. Also, you have
"cancelled" every transgender and every feminist that you've every been critical of.

 

[starwater]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...celled-not-late-fight-says-JOHN-HUMPHRYS.html



Halle Berry ought have realised 'acting' is not about playing roles that are not you. I do hope Berry has realised that going forward, she ought only consider roles where she plays a beautiful A-list actress at about whatever her current age is.



Look, this cancellation is actually fair. What did she expect when she married literally Hitler?

Not that Comer was the first actor to fall foul of the witch-hunt. Only last month, Florence Pugh, of Little Women fame, apologised for her so-called ‘white privilege’ after a picture surfaced of her with cornrows, a type of hairstyle favoured in the Caribbean.

It's a shame there were no future Canadian prime ministers there that could pull focus.

Well thank G`D you are an expert on her career where she can only play "beautiful" women. Misogynistic much?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Recourse to vagueness, since you know how stupid your analogy would sound if you compared a getting a few bad reviews to being beaten to death. And you've still presented no actual evidence to support your accusation that Berry is lying.about her true feelings on the matter.

First, it is not my analogy.

Second, there is no recourse to vagueness. Apart from the fact that the analogy was crystal clear to me from the beginning (I mean, it was really obvious what he was saying), he clarified it to when you (implicitly, but clearly and without reasons to believe so ) accused him of thinking she was like a slave for being Black (and earlier, he made the analogy after you accused him of not taking Berry's statement seriously because he was a woman).

Third, it is not "a few bad reviews", by the way. While it is obviously much less than getting beaten - perhaps to death, perhaps not -, the punishment is much more than just bad reviews. Her actions are morally condemned by many very loud Woke people (hmm maybe a term would be useful... maybe 'Wokes'- like Christians, Marxists, etc?). And they are willing to further punish those they condemn - apart from the condemnation, already a punishment. A good example would be Rowling - condemned for different actions, sure, but relevantly similar in this context (a serious breach of Woke ideology), and with similar motivation on the part of the Woke people involved. This isn't like getting another Razzie. This is about moral condemnation.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Recourse to vagueness, since you know how stupid your analogy would sound if you compared a getting a few bad reviews to being beaten to death. And you've still presented no actual evidence to support your accusation that Berry is lying.about her true feelings on the matter.

Haven't you heard? Woke is the new McCarthyism, only 10 times worse, so obviously this is extreme duress, and is tantamount to torture.

You can tell how bad it is by how "The Woke" (scare quotes for effect) have totally silenced the voice of outlets like the Daily Mail, not to mention the little guys like Metaphor and Bomb. They have been so cancelled, it is sickening to watch. The horror!

There are different degrees of duress of course. The Woke do use coercion to suppress speech. That should be obvious.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

What position?

Bomb#20 already explained it. As he pointed out, her statements " were made in the hearing of people who wanted to hear those statements and had the power to punish the respective speakers if they did not hear those respective statements. Consequently, the respective statements were made under duress. Statements made under duress are notoriously unreliable. Statements made under duress are worthless as evidence of a speaker's true beliefs."

Obviously, the punishment she would have suffered had she not made them (or similar ones) is a lot less than the punishment the slaves in the analogy would have suffered. But she would still have suffered - almost certainly - pretty significant punishment in the context of her career and personal life. The Woke are a force to be reckoned with.

So if she says she disagrees with them, they'll take her words at face value, and if she says anything else, it is under duress and she agrees with what they believe.

No, if she were to say she disagrees with the Woke, sure it's almost certainly sincere. Why? She would be enduring the punishment for taking a stance against them.

If she says she agrees with them, that is evidence that she agrees, but far from conclusive, precisely because she is under threat if she fails to meet their demands.