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The motive and effect of "Black people can't be racist"

What would make it racist then?
According to the definition, if blacks had the institutional power and the intent was based on the idea that blacks are superior (or whites are inferior).

And if that was the case he would no longer be racist if he did the same in china?

Its just that ive never encountered that definition of racism before, and 99% of the population probably doesnt use that definition. Why do you want to use your niche definition of the word?

Furthermore, I don't think it makes sense to limit your definition to only institutional power, why only that? Why not also physical power?
 
So, these English definitions quite clearly do apply to blacks as they only refer to psychological states of individuals and not at all to sociological or historical group-level power imbalances.
I purposefully provided definitions in 3 languages not just "in English" to demonstrate that there is a consensus among all those dictionaries representative of not just one culture but at least 3, that the definition of racism relies on the concept of "race" hierarchy , superior versus inferior.

My point was to demonstrate that individuals who rely on such definition and from 3 different cultures are far from doing it with a personal agenda at play as Bomb was implying they are. I must say I am surprised that there should be such reluctance in this thread to recognize the authentic character of such definition. Am I to assume here that such consensus met by a variety of dictionaries in 3 languages was met by people who somehow have a personal agenda at play?

What your definitions demonstrate is the total absence of consensus that actual group-level power differential in society is a neccessary feature of racism. In fact, they show consensus that group-level variables are not part of the definition, but rather that racism is about psychological ideas and beliefs. and thus it applies to the psychological states of individuals.

Let's add to my list the Dictionary of l' Académie Française :

http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/generic/cherche.exe?15;s=3292231050;

RACISME n. m. XXe siècle. Dérivé de race.
Ensemble de doctrines selon lesquelles les variétés de l'espèce humaine appelées races, principalement distinguées les unes des autres par leur apparence physique, seraient dotées de facultés intellectuelles et morales inégales, directement liées à leur patrimoine génétique. Par ext. Préjugé hostile, méprisant à l'égard des personnes appartenant à d'autres races, à d'autres ethnies.

My translation ,

Racism : XXth century. Derived from race :

Ensemble of doctrines holding the notion that the variety of categories within the human species referred to as races, primary distinct from each other via their physical appearance, would be endowed with unequal intellectual faculties and ethics, directly related to their genetic inheritance. By extension, hostile prejudice, contempt towards persons belonging to other races or ethnic groups.

Am I to assume that the members of the French Academy, by upholding such definition of the word racisme=racism, somehow have a personal agenda at play?

That French definition, like the English ones, in no way presumes the existence of any actual power differentials between groups. It refers to concepts and ideas which only occur within the brains of persons. Thus, any person capable of such ideas is capable of racism. I don't think the French Academy has an agenda, I think you clearly do have one in your unreasonable attempts to contort these definitions to support the notion that actual group level power differences and belong to the group with more power are required for racism. Also like the English definitions, the notion of a general value judgment about the inferiority of a race is only a secondary feature provided and an extension or example of the more general concept of racism which is about presuming differences in particular characteristics between the races. Notions of inferiority can be an implication of such presumed differences if the difference is on a dimension valued to be a core determinant of general worth. But even then, the inferiority is nothing more than a belief of persons, and does not require that the belief be acted upon to successfully achieve group level outcomes that favor ones group.


So, the only way blacks could not be racist is if we make the racist assumption that blacks are not mentally capable of the psychological states that whites are.
Non. It is not a matter of "mentally capable" and has nothing to do with a matter of inferior capacity based on mental status.

It has to do with a people conditioned via their history to be at the receiving end of doctrines which declared them as an inferior ethnic group to the dominant ethnic group endowed with the sense of being morally and intellectually superior, dominant ethnic group who empowered itself to exploit, enslave and oppress persons of Black ethnicity.

Again, your definitions say nothing in support of the idea that actual differential power at that group level is a neccessary precondition for holding racist beliefs.
Happening to share traits with group that has more power at the aggregate level is under no viable psychological theory a neccessary precondition to personally believing that one's own race is superior in some valued dimension. Belong to the more powerful group merely reinforces such in-group biases, it is not the source of them, which is rather the inherent tendencies of all humans to form ideas that favor their own value and interests. Therefore, only if blacks were inherently incapable of the psychological processes that are at the core of racist beliefs would it be true that "no blacks are or can be racist".
Also again, the very belief that only whites can be racist meets most of the definitions of racism that you provided. Racist is widely felt to be unethical and a bad thing to be, just as much or more than unintelligent or lazy are things thought to be negative. Thus, to claim that only one race possesses such a negative, unethical, and generally inferior quality is racist.


The response or reaction from folks of Black ethnicity to such persistent race superiority concept upheld by members of the White ethnicity cannot be fall under the definition of being racist.

Many responses to oppression aren't racist, others are. Merely wanting equal treatment is of course not racist. However, if oppression leads a person to believe that the group oppressing them have the ethically inferior quality of being the only ones who can be racist, then that response to oppression is itself racism. And for the nth time, not one definition you provided assumes historical group level oppression as a precondition for racism. So, while racism can be tied to actual oppression and even sometimes be a response to being racially oppressed, most instances of racism do not depend upon any actual group level oppression, neither as the cause of it or the result of it.


Also note that the notion of superiority is a secondary aspect of the definition, with the primary aspect being merely the belief that individuals' qualities and characteristics differ by their race.
I disagree. Race hierarchy based ideologies are not "merely the belief that individuals' qualities and characteristics differ by their race". They contain the element of comparing races based on claims of one race or the other being inferior or superior.

The definitions your provided show otherwise. They present notions of inferiority only as secondary extensions or manifestations of racism, because if groups are thought to differ on a trait that is also highly values, then that difference on the trait implies a difference in value or worth, which is essentially the notion of inferiority. More importantly, beliefs about inferiority do not require actual group-level power differences, thus any member of a less powerful group can still form beliefs about racial differences that imply inferiority (and the belief that only whites are racist is such a belief).

As I had noted in my reply to the OP, the dominant and self empowering ethnic group being the one who endorses the sense of being racially superior to the oppressed, exploited, enslaved ethnic group. If you wish we can expand on my contention in the World History Forum where I will demonstrate that European colonialism in Africa was indeed fueled by the belief of superiority of the White ethnicity while holding the belief of racial inferiority affecting African natives.

No reasoned analysis of history places racist beliefs as a neccessary and sufficient condition for colonialism, which is what your argument logically presumes. Within race oppression, enslavement, and mistreatment utterly falsify such a notion. Racist beliefs are merely an enabling condition of colonialism. Colonialism can occur without racism and racism without colonialism. Therefore, whether a group engaged in colonialism cannot be used to imply their racism. The fact that European colonialism was enabled by racist beliefs shows nothing other than that racism can be a contributor to colonialism, not that it must be a contributor or always produces colonialism as your argument logically presumes. The evidence of European racism is independent and not merely inferred from their colonialism.


For example, the Oxford definition starts with "The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race," The notion of superiority isn't presented as neccessary but presented as a typical motive for presuming such differences ", especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
Yet, every other definition I submitted in 3 different languages and now duly upheld by the dictionary of the French Academy (if you are not familiar with the French Academy, their for life members are the guardians of the French language) convey the meaning of race hierarchy based or/and racial superiority versus inferiority based on ethnicity or "race". And I am rather certain that those definitions directly applied to the specific term in 3 languages : racism= racisme= il razzismo.

Most of them start with beliefs about differences between races, then secondarily present notions of hierarchy as extensions. And none of them presume as you do that beliefs about hierarchies require being among to a group that actually has more institutional power.


Also, individual beliefs (which is what all these definitions refer to) about superiority are not remotely neccessary nor sufficient for actual group level oppression which has much more to do with opportunity, strategic advantage, and practical motives than racial beliefs.
We can take your contention and compare it with mine, to the World History Forum, and see how it goes when expanding on European colonialism in Africa. Deal? I will add that I will also develop on post colonial mentalities in France still portraying our population of Sub Sahara origin and Norther African origin (all representatives of our ex French colonies) as individuals inferior in intellectual capacities while questioning their ability to abide to ethics. I will certainly document the ideology nurtured by the Front National party ( a party becoming more and more popular in France) of the "True French" expanding on the genetic inheritance of White/European origin French versus Black ethnicity/Arab ethnicity genetic inheritance French. The White/European ethnicity being the "True French" while the rest is a bunch of racially inferior morons whose genetic influence should be eliminated from the oh so precious "True French" genetic pool.

This is a critical problem in so much of the soft to the point of mushy sciences, where analyses of particular events confuse local causality with fundamental causal principles, failing to grasp the critical differences between causal contingencies that are neccessary and sufficient, with those that are neither, and merely probabilistic, such as the enabling and highly context depend forms of causal influence that account for most variance in human behavior at both the individual and especially the group level. As I explained above, the influence of racist beliefs that facilitated French colonialism does not support your argument, which rests on the assumption that racist beliefs always produce such colonialism and thus differences in colonialism directly imply differences in racism.
In contrast, nothing I have said implies that racism has not played a major role in various historical events and European colonialism in particular. Neither I nor anyone else has denied that racism can fuel oppression or that institutional oppression can be a manifestation of racism. It is you and Athena taking the extremist stance that racism does not exist unless their is oppression and that the psychological state of racism that is described in every one of your definitions is somehow only accessible to people who happen to be categorizable in the same group as others who have successfully enacted group-level oppression.

Thus, nothing you have brought up in terms of the historical role of racist ideas in colonialism has any relevance, unless you can prove that racist ideas are are psychologically impossible to form in a person's mind if they belong to a group that has generally been the target of oppression. You cannot prove or even support such a notion with any historical analyses and decades of psychological science show that this notion is clearly wrong. Again, all your definitions refer to psychological states of persons, and none require successful historical oppression as a neccessary or sufficient determinant of these beliefs. So it is actually psychological data and not historical data that is relevant to the presence of racist beliefs and that data supports the existence of racist beliefs among non-whites.
 
According to the definition, if blacks had the institutional power and the intent was based on the idea that blacks are superior (or whites are inferior).

And if that was the case he would no longer be racist if he did the same in china?
According to that definition, no he would not.
Its just that ive never encountered that definition of racism before, and 99% of the population probably doesnt use that definition. Why do you want to use your niche definition of the word?
As I have mentioned before, it is not my definition. Many commonly used words have multiple definitions which do not prompt the juvenile angst and whining in this thread.
Furthermore, I don't think it makes sense to limit your definition to only institutional power, why only that? Why not also physical power?
Physical power that is not backed by institutional power is not as effective or long lasting.
 
“Be hard on systems, but soft on people.”

Do you really think that saying "Black people can't be racist. Only white people can be racist", while knowing full well that in most people's definition of racism this would mean that bigotry on race is exclusively a white person's failing, is being SOFT on people?

Do you somehow also think that it is being indivisive and should rally white people to your cause? You know, those very white people who you say have all the power to make the change needed to combat racism?

Really?

Is it really so hard to say "systemic racism" or "institutional racism" to avoid this obvious confusion you otherwise cause? Why do you cling so tightly to your definition of "racism" when you know full well that it has this effect?

Attacking systems and psychology is great, and I agree that this is the best way to combat most deeply ingrained societal problems, but you are doing exactly the opposite with your redefinition of racism. No, your definition is not common. No, it is not "scientific". Yes it does make it sound like you are addressing failings in individuals when you mean to be addressing failings in institutions and systems. Can you really not see that?
 
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No one is ignoring institutional manifestations of racism, it is merely that you are completely ignoring the psychological roots on those institutional manifestations and that such manifestations are not a neccessary outcome of psychological racism which precedes and can occur outside of those enhancing institutional structures. You are focusing exclusively on symptoms that then serve as enhancers of racism and ignoring the roots which are psychological. Ignoring the psychological roots (which like all psychology occurs within the brains of individuals) is what guarantees ineffective solutions.
An analogy is a person that never exercises and as a result gets chronic knee pain due to obesity and weak legs muscles. That knee pain then causes even more inactivity which serves as a feedback loop exacerbating the problem. The root problem of lack of exercise is akin psychological processes of racism, while institutional racism is akin to the knee pain that is a symptom of the root problem and an enhancer/enabler of the worse symptoms.

If racism were just about hating people because of their color, then it would have gone the way of hula hoops and coonskin caps long ago.

Not remotely true. In-group bias and self-centered preferences for people that are more like oneself are inherent features of human cognition. They are merely enhanced but not rooted in culturally created ideas and institutions. Racism is merely one manifestation of this, and thus will always exist at the psychological level so long as there are more than two people in the world and each person varies in their degree of similarity with the others. These largely automatic racist tendencies in all people of all races can be limited in their influence on both personal and individual actions by conscious recognition of their default prevalence and deliberate efforts to control them in large part via a principled ethics that they are unacceptable by anyone. Any tacit endorsement of psychological racism, such as by denying its existence in non-whites or actively promoting racial bias and stereotype judgments such as inherent to AA policies, will undermine any efforts to control racism more generally. None of this precludes also recognizing particular institutional manifestations of racism that increase the relative harm done to members of different racial groups. In fact, recognizing that institutions are created and shaped by individual psycholgical processes that are prone toward in-group bias will only aid in identifying and understanding institutional racism.

This is very well said. And I will be very surprised, and very impressed if Athena (or laughing dog) actually addresses these points, instead of telling you that you are whining and that you are only saying any of the above because you want to claim to be a victim of racism too.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Under Athena's (re)definition of the word, it would not be racist for a white guy on the street to shout racial slurs at a black guy, since that isn't an abuse of power. Under her definition many white people (the poor and powerless ones) are incapable of racism.
Whinging about one definition of a word with illogical straw men because the particular use does not fit with your ideology is pretty odd especially if your goal is to fight prejudice, bigotry and unfair treatment based on race.

You should probably realize that I didn't write what you responded to with any such goal. Athena has explicitly stated that she uses the definition that she does in order to better combat racism (see her Tim Wise quote).

Also... you accuse me of whining and call what I wrote above a straw man of Athena's definition of racism, and then you write this a couple pages later.

laughing dog said:
First. it isn't my definition. Second, no it is not necessarily racist for anyone to shout any racial slurs at anyone else.

How is my account of her definition any different than yours?

You sir, are the one that is whining. :)
 
Whinging about one definition of a word with illogical straw men because the particular use does not fit with your ideology is pretty odd especially if your goal is to fight prejudice, bigotry and unfair treatment based on race.

You should probably realize that I didn't write what you responded to with any such goal.
Well, you did write "Because it is false and looks dishonest, so it undermines our credibility when we make honest efforts to defeat racism against black people. "
 
No one is ignoring institutional manifestations of racism, it is merely that you are completely ignoring the psychological roots on those institutional manifestations and that such manifestations are not a neccessary outcome of psychological racism which precedes and can occur outside of those enhancing institutional structures. You are focusing exclusively on symptoms that then serve as enhancers of racism and ignoring the roots which are psychological. Ignoring the psychological roots (which like all psychology occurs within the brains of individuals) is what guarantees ineffective solutions.
An analogy is a person that never exercises and as a result gets chronic knee pain due to obesity and weak legs muscles. That knee pain then causes even more inactivity which serves as a feedback loop exacerbating the problem. The root problem of lack of exercise is akin psychological processes of racism, while institutional racism is akin to the knee pain that is a symptom of the root problem and an enhancer/enabler of the worse symptoms.



Not remotely true. In-group bias and self-centered preferences for people that are more like oneself are inherent features of human cognition. They are merely enhanced but not rooted in culturally created ideas and institutions. Racism is merely one manifestation of this, and thus will always exist at the psychological level so long as there are more than two people in the world and each person varies in their degree of similarity with the others. These largely automatic racist tendencies in all people of all races can be limited in their influence on both personal and individual actions by conscious recognition of their default prevalence and deliberate efforts to control them in large part via a principled ethics that they are unacceptable by anyone. Any tacit endorsement of psychological racism, such as by denying its existence in non-whites or actively promoting racial bias and stereotype judgments such as inherent to AA policies, will undermine any efforts to control racism more generally. None of this precludes also recognizing particular institutional manifestations of racism that increase the relative harm done to members of different racial groups. In fact, recognizing that institutions are created and shaped by individual psycholgical processes that are prone toward in-group bias will only aid in identifying and understanding institutional racism.

This is very well said. And I will be very surprised, and very impressed if Athena (or laughing dog) actually addresses these points, instead of telling you that you are whining and that you are only saying any of the above because you want to claim to be a victim of racism too.

Racism shapes thought. No one alive today started white supremacy. But people alive today have been shaped by it. Even people who think the right thoughts first.

“Intelligent whites give more enlightened responses than less intelligent whites to questions about their attitudes, but their responses to questions about actual policies aimed at redressing racial discrimination are far less enlightened. For example, although nearly all whites with advanced cognitive abilities say that ‘whites have no right to segregate their neighborhoods,’ nearly half of this group remains content to allow prejudicial real estate practices to continue unencumbered by open housing laws.”

According to Wodtke, the broader implication of this study is that racism and prejudice don’t simply come about as a result of low mental capacities or deficiencies in socialization. Rather, they result from the need of dominant groups to legitimize and protect their privileged social position within an intergroup conflict over resources.

“More intelligent members of the dominant group are just better at legitimizing and protecting their privileged position than less intelligent members,” he said. “In modern America, where blacks are mobilized to challenge racial inequality, this means that intelligent whites say — and may in fact truly believe — all the right things about racial equality in principle, but they just don’t actually do anything that would eliminate the privileges to which they have become accustomed.

Can black people be hateful and cruel to white people and do so because the dont like white people or feel themselves superior to white people? I will grant you every evil you wish to bestow on black people. But the word racism is about systems that Yes, can an do shape the psyche of individuals, but it is still about the system.

You don't have to agree with me, and I will not be agreeing with you.
 
Can someone explain what the drawback would be with referring to individual race-based bigotry as racism? Note, this doesn't in any way mess with the concept of systemic racism.
 
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Can someone explain what the drawback would be with referring to individual race-based bigotry as racism? Note, this doesn't in any way.mess with the concept of systemic racism.

That's pretty much where I started on the opening post of this thread. It has yet to be answered. For some inexplicable reason Athena and her crew cling to a definition designed to exclude it, despite the obvious problem that creates.
 
Can someone explain what the drawback would be with referring to individual race-based bigotry as racism? Note, this doesn't in any way mess with the concept of systemic racism.

I would like to know that too, but it seems the only answer we get is the same question, just turned around: 'why do you need racism to also include individual race-based bigotry?', to which we can answer: we don't 'need' it, its just the definition that 99% of people use. Especially when it creates odd outcomes such as this:

And if that was the case he would no longer be racist if he did the same in china?
According to that definition, no he would not.
 
Can someone explain what the drawback would be with referring to individual race-based bigotry as racism? Note, this doesn't in any way mess with the concept of systemic racism.

When you speak of racism in terms of interpersonal relationships, in terms of intentions, the racism in institutions tends to fade into the background. And you wind up with situation where the a couple of people get fired and the institutional policies and procedures that afforded the now ex employees to do whatever it was they did gets to continue on its merry way.

No one wants to think that they play a part in racism of any kind, and no one want to think they benefit of racism in any way. The victims of racism do not enjoy the experience but they do have to face it.

Now because people don't want to deal with the institutional aspects of racism, we have come up with "solutions" to the problem that are half assed and don't do enough. we get one time programs instead of changes in the paradigm. We get a chapter in a history for black history and Latino history instead be taught comprehensive and full integrated history. And the dominant group is expected to do nothing. The subordinate groups are told that respectability is the way to go, that if they were just more like "normal" people, their problems would go away. Which brings us to victim blaming.

That is the harm. That is why incarceration rates are what they are, unemployment is what it is, why the dropout rate is what it is, and that is why threads like this one are still being started in 2014.
 
Can someone explain what the drawback would be with referring to individual race-based bigotry as racism? Note, this doesn't in any way mess with the concept of systemic racism.

When you speak of racism in terms of interpersonal relationships, in terms of intentions, the racism in institutions tends to fade into the background. And you wind up with situation where the a couple of people get fired and the institutional policies and procedures that afforded the now ex employees to do whatever it was they did gets to continue on its merry way.

No one wants to think that they play a part in racism of any kind, and no one want to think they benefit of racism in any way. The victims of racism do not enjoy the experience but they do have to face it.

Now because people don't want to deal with the institutional aspects of racism, we have come up with "solutions" to the problem that are half assed and don't do enough. we get one time programs instead of changes in the paradigm. We get a chapter in a history for black history and Latino history instead be taught comprehensive and full integrated history. And the dominant group is expected to do nothing. The subordinate groups are told that respectability is the way to go, that if they were just more like "normal" people, their problems would go away. Which brings us to victim blaming.

That is the harm. That is why incarceration rates are what they are, unemployment is what it is, why the dropout rate is what it is, and that is why threads like this one are still being started in 2014.

What would you call a black person who considers his race to be superior?
 
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Can someone explain what the drawback would be with referring to individual race-based bigotry as racism? Note, this doesn't in any way mess with the concept of systemic racism.

When you speak of racism in terms of interpersonal relationships, in terms of intentions, the racism in institutions tends to fade into the background. And you wind up with situation where the a couple of people get fired and the institutional policies and procedures that afforded the now ex employees to do whatever it was they did gets to continue on its merry way.

That's not the case at all. Being against one type of racism doesn't somehow preclude being against other types and the desire to deal with different types of racism isn't somehow mutually exclusive.

No one wants to think that they play a part in racism of any kind, and no one want to think they benefit of racism in any way. The victims of racism do not enjoy the experience but they do have to face it.

Now because people don't want to deal with the institutional aspects of racism, we have come up with "solutions" to the problem that are half assed and don't do enough. we get one time programs instead of changes in the paradigm. We get a chapter in a history for black history and Latino history instead be taught comprehensive and full integrated history. And the dominant group is expected to do nothing. The subordinate groups are told that respectability is the way to go, that if they were just more like "normal" people, their problems would go away. Which brings us to victim blaming.

That is the harm. That is why incarceration rates are what they are, unemployment is what it is, why the dropout rate is what it is, and that is why threads like this one are still being started in 2014.

And that's because institutional racism is the most serious and damaging form of racism. It's invalid to refer to it as the only type of racism, however.
 
Can someone explain what the drawback would be with referring to individual race-based bigotry as racism? Note, this doesn't in any way mess with the concept of systemic racism.

When you speak of racism in terms of interpersonal relationships, in terms of intentions, the racism in institutions tends to fade into the background. And you wind up with situation where the a couple of people get fired and the institutional policies and procedures that afforded the now ex employees to do whatever it was they did gets to continue on its merry way.

No one wants to think that they play a part in racism of any kind, and no one want to think they benefit of racism in any way. The victims of racism do not enjoy the experience but they do have to face it.

Now because people don't want to deal with the institutional aspects of racism, we have come up with "solutions" to the problem that are half assed and don't do enough. we get one time programs instead of changes in the paradigm. We get a chapter in a history for black history and Latino history instead be taught comprehensive and full integrated history. And the dominant group is expected to do nothing. The subordinate groups are told that respectability is the way to go, that if they were just more like "normal" people, their problems would go away. Which brings us to victim blaming.

That is the harm. That is why incarceration rates are what they are, unemployment is what it is, why the dropout rate is what it is, and that is why threads like this one are still being started in 2014.

Just call it institutional racism then. No one's gonna misunderstand it, and you will actually manage to make a clear point.

Remember, 99% of people dont know the definition of racism you use.
 
Now because people don't want to deal with the institutional aspects of racism, we have come up with "solutions" to the problem that are half assed and don't do enough. we get one time programs instead of changes in the paradigm. We get a chapter in a history for black history and Latino history instead be taught comprehensive and full integrated history. And the dominant group is expected to do nothing. The subordinate groups are told that respectability is the way to go, that if they were just more like "normal" people, their problems would go away. Which brings us to victim blaming.

That is the harm. That is why incarceration rates are what they are, unemployment is what it is, why the dropout rate is what it is, and that is why threads like this one are still being started in 2014.

The problem is that you continue to harp on a problem that's basically solved. As far as I'm concerned you are part of the problem, not someone working for the solution.
 
When you speak of racism in terms of interpersonal relationships, in terms of intentions, the racism in institutions tends to fade into the background. And you wind up with situation where the a couple of people get fired and the institutional policies and procedures that afforded the now ex employees to do whatever it was they did gets to continue on its merry way.

No one wants to think that they play a part in racism of any kind, and no one want to think they benefit of racism in any way. The victims of racism do not enjoy the experience but they do have to face it.

Now because people don't want to deal with the institutional aspects of racism, we have come up with "solutions" to the problem that are half assed and don't do enough. we get one time programs instead of changes in the paradigm. We get a chapter in a history for black history and Latino history instead be taught comprehensive and full integrated history. And the dominant group is expected to do nothing. The subordinate groups are told that respectability is the way to go, that if they were just more like "normal" people, their problems would go away. Which brings us to victim blaming.

That is the harm. That is why incarceration rates are what they are, unemployment is what it is, why the dropout rate is what it is, and that is why threads like this one are still being started in 2014.

What would you call a black person who considers his race to be superior?

A jackass
 
Now because people don't want to deal with the institutional aspects of racism, we have come up with "solutions" to the problem that are half assed and don't do enough. we get one time programs instead of changes in the paradigm. We get a chapter in a history for black history and Latino history instead be taught comprehensive and full integrated history. And the dominant group is expected to do nothing. The subordinate groups are told that respectability is the way to go, that if they were just more like "normal" people, their problems would go away. Which brings us to victim blaming.

That is the harm. That is why incarceration rates are what they are, unemployment is what it is, why the dropout rate is what it is, and that is why threads like this one are still being started in 2014.

The problem is that you continue to harp on a problem that's basically solved. As far as I'm concerned you are part of the problem, not someone working for the solution.

Loren, your opinion and 2 bucks will get me a Starbucks on the way home.

I have studied social stratification
I work in the field of corporate diversity training and reconciliation
I have given expert testimony in court and the state house
I mentor youth
I teach economic self defense workshops in churches across my region, black white brown and mixed
I organize and get out among the people

So what you think of me, ...

Tell me what do you do?

That's what I thought




Loren, your opinion and 2 bucks will get me a Starbucks on the way home.
 
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