US Slavery -> Racial Resentment over 150 years later

[Gospel]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

 

[ronburgundy]

I guess the Black people in other regions of the country should follow Charles Blows advice, and reverse migrate back to the South. Charles Blow is a Black opinion columnist who writes for the NYTimes. He moved to Atlanta about a year ago. He loves Georgia and is trying to convince other Black professionals to return to their southern roots, to help the Democrats take over the South.

The South is already heavily populated by Black professionals, and hourly workers. I already live in a Black majority city about 40 miles from ATL. I am a bit skeptical of some of the claims make in the OP, although I agree that today's Republican Party has been dominated by racists. I don't think the racism in the South is worse than the racism in the North.

My city just won what is called a "visionary award" for the way it handled the Black Lives Matter protests last summer. Our protests included the police, local religious figures as well as a mix of both Black and White citizens. The award also applauded a large mural that was painted on the side of a building downtown of the first Black woman in the US to receive a commercial pilot's license. Maybe that's trivial, bu the mural is pretty cool.

While we have our share of racists here, they are usually much easier to identify compared with those in other parts of the country. So, let's not pretend that racism is just a Southern problem, when it exists all over the country.

It isn't just a southern problem, but evidence strongly supports that it is a much more widespread problem in the south. It is no coincidence that an unusual number of congress people switched parties while the south turned from blue to red at the height of the Civil Rights movement. And the times when And studies of racist attitudes show greater % of whites with racist attitudes (which includes denial of the effects of slavery on outcome disparities) in the south.

The OP study is actually rather compelling evidence that it is tied to slavery rather than just a "southern pride" thing that would not covary specifically with county by county variance in slave holdings. IOW, when the Dems were controlled by southern racists who strongly opposed to civil rights and desegregation they not only had control of the states with the most slaves in prior to the civil war, but specifically most controlled the counties most dependent upon that slavery. Then, as more Dems and Dem presidents, starting with lifelong Dem Thurmond breaking with the party and stealing deep south states by running as independent on a pro segregation platform, a strategy repeated by Dems Byrd in 1960, but Wallace in 1968.

Goldwater proved the Republicans could take the deep south in 1964 on a strong anti Civil Rights platform (he won all 5 deep south states). The GOP took the south in 1968, except for the 4 of the 5 deep south states, which Wallace won as an independent by running on a rabidly anti civil rights platform that by his own words "out-niggered" Nixon. The Dems failed to win the south after 1960, except in 1976 when Carter, a southern devout Christian ran against Ford, a moderate pro civil rights northerner who was never elected to either the VP or Presidency and only won the nomination as an "incumbent". Ford had a stronger pro civil right record than Carter extended throughout his political career all the way back to his college football days when Georgia Tech refused to to play Ford's Michigan unless Michigan's lone black player was prohibited from playing, so Ford refused to play in solidarity to his black teammate.

But it's not just that there is a greater prevalence of deeply entrenched white supremacy in the south. It's also that the Civil War helped create a protective culture and political mindset surrounding that white supremacy, what racist apologists call "southern pride" or "state's rights" issues. Not only does this allow white supremacy in the south to resist the cultural and moral progress most of Western civilization has undergone, but it give racists cover and coded language to talk about and vote based heavily upon racist ideology without admitting (even to themselves) that is what they are doing.

 

[Politesse]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

Well, white people seem to have discovered Juneteenth now. So that's soon to be two holidays, a few ghetto-ish urban cores, some bus systems, menial labor, and the occasional Oscar-bait film about how romantic slavery was. Jews get the Oscar-bait thing, too. Usually not Native Americans, though.

Proviso for clarity: I think all of this is a fucking national tragedy.

 

[Harry Bosch]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

Most of the reservations arn't so great. Many Indians leave as soon as they can.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

The mass killings of Native Americans and Blacks was before we realized how wrong we were. Furthermore, the killings were in response to "wrongdoing" (the "wrongdoing" was resisting having their land taken, but back then it was might makes right, the people involved didn't see it as wrong) but Hitler's killing of the Jews had no provocation.

 

[Politesse]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

The mass killings of Native Americans and Blacks was before we realized how wrong we were. Furthermore, the killings were in response to "wrongdoing" (the "wrongdoing" was resisting having their land taken, but back then it was might makes right, the people involved didn't see it as wrong) but Hitler's killing of the Jews had no provocation.

Bullshit, there were plenty of people of those generations who "realized how wrong" killing people was. They were murdered for the sake of greed and power, not some innocent accident.

 

[Gospel]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

The mass killings of Native Americans and Blacks was before we realized how wrong we were. Furthermore, the killings were in response to "wrongdoing" (the "wrongdoing" was resisting having their land taken, but back then it was might makes right, the people involved didn't see it as wrong) but Hitler's killing of the Jews had no provocation.

Interesting, I'll entertain those thoughts and ask

1: After realizing how wrong they were, what have they done to pay the price for their crimes? Keep in mind that this is the American Government I'm talking about since the people at large at that time "didn't know that it was wrong".

2: What exactly did Africans do to elicit being stripped of their freedom, language, names; and then whipped, shackled, hanged, beat to death, burned, mutilated, branded, sold , raped, imprisoned & (insert the rest of the insane shit here)?


If you're answer is nothing for 1 then congrats, you've discovered why there is resentment. If your answer is, we gave them freedom and treated them as equals then I'll gladly steal everything you own & everyone you know, profit off of it/them then declare I was wrong without returning anything to you or holding myself accountable.

If your answer to 2 is they were wearing sexy outfits or something similar you can eat a dick.

Edit: I just realized you may have been using sarcasm, if so my above comment is said with all due respect.

 

[Worldtraveller]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

The mass killings of Native Americans and Blacks was before we realized how wrong we were. Furthermore, the killings were in response to "wrongdoing" (the "wrongdoing" was resisting having their land taken, but back then it was might makes right, the people involved didn't see it as wrong) but Hitler's killing of the Jews had no provocation.

How many more buckets of whitewash you got there? You gotta be starting to run low by now.

 

[Gospel]

Yeah, & the whole resisting having their land taken doesn't even answer the wrongdoing because the alleged wrongdoing doesn't happen until after they started taking people and land. This is why I still ask the question what did they do to elicit what was done to them?

 

[Gospel]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

Well, white people seem to have discovered Juneteenth now. So that's soon to be two holidays, a few ghetto-ish urban cores, some bus systems, menial labor, and the occasional Oscar-bait film about how romantic slavery was. Jews get the Oscar-bait thing, too. Usually not Native Americans, though.

Proviso for clarity: I think all of this is a fucking national tragedy.

Yeah lol, BTW that will be two holidays for black people that my company doesn't recognize as a holiday because we're still open. They give everyone Christmas, July 4th, New Years, Thanksgiving but I have to use Vacation time to take MLK day off. I proposed that they give anyone who wants to take off for MLK holiday pay and those who don't want to take it off don't get shit. That didn't fly to well. Surprised I'm still working here so that's agreeable I guess.

 

[Politesse]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

Well, white people seem to have discovered Juneteenth now. So that's soon to be two holidays, a few ghetto-ish urban cores, some bus systems, menial labor, and the occasional Oscar-bait film about how romantic slavery was. Jews get the Oscar-bait thing, too. Usually not Native Americans, though.

Proviso for clarity: I think all of this is a fucking national tragedy.

Yeah lol, BTW that will be two holidays for black people that my company doesn't recognize as a holiday because we're still open. They give everyone Christmas, July 4th, New Years, Thanksgiving but I have to use Vacation time to take MLK day off. I proposed that they give anyone who wants to take off for MLK holiday pay and those who don't want to take it off don't get shit. That didn't fly to well. Surprised I'm still working here so that's agreeable I guess.

Don't worry, white people in sufficiently cushy jobs will soon get both days off, now that they are aware.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think it is exactly the opposite. It is the blacks that have a lot of resentment against whites because of slavery (which ended over 150 years ago).

Also, something that stood out: the authors use opposition to so-called "affirmative action" as some sort of evidence for racial resentment. Again, I think the authors miss the point because of their ideology. It is racial preferences that drive resentment. If you tell a white or Asian kid they need a 1550 SAT or 515 MCAT to be as competitive as a black kid with a 1400 SAT or 505 MCAT, how could it not drive resentment?

I think John Roberts has been right - the only way to stop racial discrimination is to stop discriminating by race. And also to stop using something that ended over a century and a half ago as a cudgel in political and pseudo-academic debates.

That is an interesting take on it because it ignores roughly 150 years of post Civil War History. After all, the people that hate blacks switched parties from Democrat to Republican when the times changed in the 50/60s, almost exclusively because of their bigotry against blacks. That hatred in the 1950/60/70s wasn't caused because of affirmative action.

Blacks demand stupid stuff like the right to vote, and the bigots were up in arms, literally. Blacks wanted to march, they were attacked with fire hoses and German shepards. Again, this is before affirmative action.

It is disingenuous to suggest that the bigotry against blacks today is finally rooted in rationality.

 

[Gospel]

Affirmative action does indeed cause resentment, Derec is living proof and is happy to provide reasons (as seen in his posts). What he and others who believe that's a valid source for resentment don't take into account is the reason affirmative action was a thing in the first place. They actually believe that giving black people anything at all is a bad idea and the current quondam dissidence manifested on all ugly sides of the black community is something we black people brought upon ourselves. They rationalize this by using other races who thrive in America as proof that opportunity is equally abound without giving any consideration to a culture that had to adapt to a world where they had no name, no language, no ownership and so on for a minimum of 4 FUCKING CENTURIES. Then when we're given what was ours to begin with (freedom, voting rights, etc) we're supposed to just collectively wake up bright eyed and bushytailed like nothing ever happened. We're not supposed to go through growing pains as we struggle with the impossible task of putting our families, financials & communities back together nor were we supposed to expect anyone to be held accountable or be angry when no one is for previous and continuous crimes against our people. We're supposed to listen to & trust the police force that have beaten the shit out of us for 4 FUCKING CENTURIES with not a single one facing justice even for terrible acts committed well after the thirteenth amendment written by none other than our good friend NO SHIT SHERLOCK.

 

[southernhybrid]

I guess the Black people in other regions of the country should follow Charles Blows advice, and reverse migrate back to the South. Charles Blow is a Black opinion columnist who writes for the NYTimes. He moved to Atlanta about a year ago. He loves Georgia and is trying to convince other Black professionals to return to their southern roots, to help the Democrats take over the South.

The South is already heavily populated by Black professionals, and hourly workers. I already live in a Black majority city about 40 miles from ATL. I am a bit skeptical of some of the claims make in the OP, although I agree that today's Republican Party has been dominated by racists. I don't think the racism in the South is worse than the racism in the North.

My city just won what is called a "visionary award" for the way it handled the Black Lives Matter protests last summer. Our protests included the police, local religious figures as well as a mix of both Black and White citizens. The award also applauded a large mural that was painted on the side of a building downtown of the first Black woman in the US to receive a commercial pilot's license. Maybe that's trivial, bu the mural is pretty cool.

While we have our share of racists here, they are usually much easier to identify compared with those in other parts of the country. So, let's not pretend that racism is just a Southern problem, when it exists all over the country.

It isn't just a southern problem, but evidence strongly supports that it is a much more widespread problem in the south. It is no coincidence that an unusual number of congress people switched parties while the south turned from blue to red at the height of the Civil Rights movement. And the times when And studies of racist attitudes show greater % of whites with racist attitudes (which includes denial of the effects of slavery on outcome disparities) in the south.

The OP study is actually rather compelling evidence that it is tied to slavery rather than just a "southern pride" thing that would not covary specifically with county by county variance in slave holdings. IOW, when the Dems were controlled by southern racists who strongly opposed to civil rights and desegregation they not only had control of the states with the most slaves in prior to the civil war, but specifically most controlled the counties most dependent upon that slavery. Then, as more Dems and Dem presidents, starting with lifelong Dem Thurmond breaking with the party and stealing deep south states by running as independent on a pro segregation platform, a strategy repeated by Dems Byrd in 1960, but Wallace in 1968.

Goldwater proved the Republicans could take the deep south in 1964 on a strong anti Civil Rights platform (he won all 5 deep south states). The GOP took the south in 1968, except for the 4 of the 5 deep south states, which Wallace won as an independent by running on a rabidly anti civil rights platform that by his own words "out-niggered" Nixon. The Dems failed to win the south after 1960, except in 1976 when Carter, a southern devout Christian ran against Ford, a moderate pro civil rights northerner who was never elected to either the VP or Presidency and only won the nomination as an "incumbent". Ford had a stronger pro civil right record than Carter extended throughout his political career all the way back to his college football days when Georgia Tech refused to to play Ford's Michigan unless Michigan's lone black player was prohibited from playing, so Ford refused to play in solidarity to his black teammate.

But it's not just that there is a greater prevalence of deeply entrenched white supremacy in the south. It's also that the Civil War helped create a protective culture and political mindset surrounding that white supremacy, what racist apologists call "southern pride" or "state's rights" issues. Not only does this allow white supremacy in the south to resist the cultural and moral progress most of Western civilization has undergone, but it give racists cover and coded language to talk about and vote based heavily upon racist ideology without admitting (even to themselves) that is what they are doing.

If you look at the past 20 years or so, the evidence suggests that the North is more racist than the South. I personally have seen that for myself as someone who grew up in the Northeast but has lived in the South since the 70s. I really don't feel like arguing this with you, but I will post a link of a study that was done by a Black intellectual, who has lived almost all of his life in the South. To sum it up, incarceration rates for Black folks are statistically higher in the North, the schools in the North are more segregated, and Black people are hired at a higher rate in the South compared to the North, etc.

The difference is that Southern racist are more open about their racism compared to Northern racist, but the North is far more segregated than the South. Whenever I visit the New Jersey metro area, I am always shocked at how ghettoized its Black citizens tend to be, with only one or two areas that are fairly well integrated with middle and upper class Black citizens. I live in a middle class neighborhood and over the 22 years that I've been in my home, I've seen a large influx of new Black homeowners. You rarely find that in the North.

Some of the claims in your link are related to what happened over 50 years ago. Don't you think that times have changed? Sure, we have our share of racists where I live, but they are becoming a much smaller part of the population. We are making progress, while I don't see that up North. The schools in the North may be better but they are also very segregated. I'll just post the link and you can see what I mean.

https://www.theroot.com/is-the-south-more-racist-than-other-parts-of-the-us-1820893655

I was born and raised in South Carolina, attended college in Alabama and—except for a few stints in Washington, D.C. (which is technically below the Mason-Dixon Line, but not considered “Southern”), and periods living outside the U.S.—have always lived in the South.

I often hear people who live in other states, especially in the Northeast, offhandedly demean the South as backward, less educated and—more important—racist, as if the rest of the country has an invisible deflector shield that eliminates white supremacy. But instead of reminding naysayers and detractors that it was places like Alabama and Mississippi that made it possible for blacks to vote, attend the college of their choice and sit wherever they wanted on the bus, I decided to examine the issue with data and statistics. I am not oblivious to the history of the South, but I wanted to find out whether or not it was true. Is the South really more racist?

To answer the question, I took an objective set of criteria and dissected the information. I looked at the available information on education, employment, economics, housing and politics to find out if the South is really more racist than anywhere else.

You can read the rest of his article if you are really interested, but as one who has lived in both places, I feel as if the South has made a lot more progress than the rest of the country when it comes to fighting racist attitudes. Racism is a problem all over the US, but I'm a bit tired of people making the claim that it's a Southern problem. I do agree that Republicans tend to be more racist than Democrats, but that's true in other parts of the country.

We all have a long way to go when it comes to fighting racism. You can't change what's in a person's head, but we can support integrated neighborhoods, work places and schools. Those things go a long way in helping people understand that we aren't that different from each other.

Let me end my lengthy reply by quoting something that a Black. coworker said to me many years ago.
"I will take a Southern racist over a Northern racist anyway. At least I know where I stand when it comes to the Southern racist"

She was implying that people in other parts of the country did as much or more damage, but they were much quieter about it. That is possibly why so many people mistakenly believe that the South is more racist than the North, when according to the study done in my link, the opposite is true.

I don't disagree with you that the modern Republican Party is a lot more racist compared to the modern Democratic Party.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Affirmative action does indeed cause resentment, Derec is living proof and is happy to provide reasons (as seen in his posts).

AA is merely an excuse. People have had no trouble finding excuses for their bigotry of blacks in America for centuries!

 

[Gospel]

Affirmative action does indeed cause resentment, Derec is living proof and is happy to provide reasons (as seen in his posts).

AA is merely an excuse. People have had no trouble finding excuses for their bigotry of blacks in America for centuries!

That is true. It's willful ignorance these days and mostly willful ignorance during it's heights. I'm under no delusion that slavery did not occur within and between African states before during and after the Atlantic slave trade. But they are definitely under the delusion that the struggles of the black community in America this very day has nothing to do with the America of the past. Deal with it, it's not going anywhere anytime soon. We dealt with your shit for 4 FUCKING CENTURIES. Sorry if our style of music, walking, shopping, talking & law breaking is not up to your standards. It's true that white people today haven't enslaved any black people but they can't honestly claim they dindu nuffin when so eager to harvest & disgorge the predictable rhetoric common amongst ignorant fucks.

I don't mean to directly insult any forum members. I'm speaking openly because I respect your opinions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

The mass killings of Native Americans and Blacks was before we realized how wrong we were. Furthermore, the killings were in response to "wrongdoing" (the "wrongdoing" was resisting having their land taken, but back then it was might makes right, the people involved didn't see it as wrong) but Hitler's killing of the Jews had no provocation.

Bullshit, there were plenty of people of those generations who "realized how wrong" killing people was. They were murdered for the sake of greed and power, not some innocent accident.

Sure, there were some enlightened people who realized it was wrong. Society overall didn't see it as wrong, though.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

ELI5

Jews get killed it's called a holocausts, they get their own country with US Military backing & billions in guaranteed loans.
Native American's get killed it's called thanksgiving & they get land.
Black People get killed it's "get over it".

Did I miss anything?

I do not hate Jews, Native Americans or Black people.

Edit: Did not mean to quote users.

The mass killings of Native Americans and Blacks was before we realized how wrong we were. Furthermore, the killings were in response to "wrongdoing" (the "wrongdoing" was resisting having their land taken, but back then it was might makes right, the people involved didn't see it as wrong) but Hitler's killing of the Jews had no provocation.

Interesting, I'll entertain those thoughts and ask

1: After realizing how wrong they were, what have they done to pay the price for their crimes? Keep in mind that this is the American Government I'm talking about since the people at large at that time "didn't know that it was wrong".

2: What exactly did Africans do to elicit being stripped of their freedom, language, names; and then whipped, shackled, hanged, beat to death, burned, mutilated, branded, sold , raped, imprisoned & (insert the rest of the insane shit here)?


If you're answer is nothing for 1 then congrats, you've discovered why there is resentment. If your answer is, we gave them freedom and treated them as equals then I'll gladly steal everything you own & everyone you know, profit off of it/them then declare I was wrong without returning anything to you or holding myself accountable.

If your answer to 2 is they were wearing sexy outfits or something similar you can eat a dick.

Edit: I just realized you may have been using sarcasm, if so my above comment is said with all due respect.

I already explained it--they were resisting our occupation of their land. By the standards of the time that put them in the wrong.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Bullshit, there were plenty of people of those generations who "realized how wrong" killing people was. They were murdered for the sake of greed and power, not some innocent accident.

Sure, there were some enlightened people who realized it was wrong. Society overall didn't see it as wrong, though.

Half of society is fine with separating children from parents and having them live in tight confined spaces, as long as they are from south of the border.

To paraphrase Amos, we don’t give a fuck what happens to the other tribe.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, & the whole resisting having their land taken doesn't even answer the wrongdoing because the alleged wrongdoing doesn't happen until after they started taking people and land. This is why I still ask the question what did they do to elicit what was done to them?

The problem is that you guys are looking at it by modern standards, not the standards of the time.

We can look back and see that we were very wrong, but the people at the time didn't realize it.