Six-year-old in North Carolina arrested for picking flower from lawn

[Jarhyn]

Yeah, that's still stupid. If you live at a bus stop, your garden next to it WILL get fucked with. Period. End of discussion. Just as it's ridiculous to get angry at the sky for rain, it is ridiculous to get angry that bus stops increase exposure to idle hands.

The solution there is to not move into houses at bus stops, or do your gardening in the back.

Doesn't matter how "fed up" they are. At some point, you need to accept that when you build your castles in swamps, they will sink.

Dang that's some serious victim blaming.

Ya know, if women don't want to attract attention from men they should stop wearing slutty clothes in public.
Tom

If six year olds had a sex drive and were the size of full grown adults, I would say that wearing "slutty" clothing around them was indeed a bad choice.

More of a bad choice in that reality would be letting them out of the house, or for that matter out of a secure facility.

We should be glad that male adults are already adults who understand the consequences from years of education, rather than only 6 and incapable of fully understanding the consequences of their actions and the boundaries of others.

LeOpArDs AtE My FaCe!

 

[TomC]

Yeah, that's still stupid. If you live at a bus stop, your garden next to it WILL get fucked with. Period. End of discussion. Just as it's ridiculous to get angry at the sky for rain, it is ridiculous to get angry that bus stops increase exposure to idle hands.

The solution there is to not move into houses at bus stops, or do your gardening in the back.

Doesn't matter how "fed up" they are. At some point, you need to accept that when you build your castles in swamps, they will sink.

Dang that's some serious victim blaming.

Ya know, if women don't want to attract attention from men they should stop wearing slutty clothes in public.
Tom

If six year olds had a sex drive and were the size of full grown adults, I would say that wearing "slutty" clothing around them was indeed a bad choice.

More of a bad choice in that reality would be letting them out of the house, or for that matter out of a secure facility.

We should be glad that male adults are already adults who understand the consequences from years of education, rather than only 6 and incapable of fully understanding the consequences of their actions and the boundaries of others.

LeOpArDs AtE My FaCe!

Dang you're good at dodging.
My point was about you blaming the people who got vandalized. Instead of the parents who didn't address the problem.

The boy is SIX. He's not the problem, at least not yet.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

Yeah, twenty lashes should straighten out the little fucker. Plus it would be faster, cheaper and probably more memorable to the mini-felon.

I still see the problem as the parents, not the child.
As keeps being pointed out, he's SIX! This is on them.

And who knows why the complainants took drastic action. Maybe they just got fed up with vandalism by students at the bus stop, over years, and decided to send a message to all the neighborhood parents. "We're gonna start prosecuting if you don't teach your kids to respect other people's property."

I'm not claiming to know the back story, but I'm confident that there is one.
Tom

Yeah, that's still stupid. If you live at a bus stop, your garden next to it WILL get fucked with. Period. End of discussion. Just as it's ridiculous to get angry at the sky for rain, it is ridiculous to get angry that bus stops increase exposure to idle hands.

Yeah, that's still stupid. If you stand at a bus stop, your WILL get sexually molested. Period. End of discussion. Just as it's ridiculous to get angry at the sky for rain, it is ridiculous to get angry that bus stops increase exposure to idle hands.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If six year olds had a sex drive and were the size of full grown adults, I would say that wearing "slutty" clothing around them was indeed a bad choice.

More of a bad choice in that reality would be letting them out of the house, or for that matter out of a secure facility.

We should be glad that male adults are already adults who understand the consequences from years of education, rather than only 6 and incapable of fully understanding the consequences of their actions and the boundaries of others.

LeOpArDs AtE My FaCe!

Dang you're good at dodging.
My point was about you blaming the people who got vandalized. Instead of the parents who didn't address the problem.

The boy is SIX. He's not the problem, at least not yet.
Tom

A 6 year old kid with adhd at a bus stop at your property will scuff up your lawn, pick up sticks and throw them from your lawn, get bored and do something physical around the property. It's a significant probability that parents cannot physically stop or verbally control their children interacting with nature in such cases. Example: my kid who was older than 6 last year was at bus stop and went onto neighbor's lawn where the stop is and I scolded him not to do it. He picked up a stick and hit the lawn. I lectured him about people's private property and how that was disrespectful. He's done similar things in the past. My lecturing and providing consequences if commensurate with an offense still have mitigated his behavior...would be worse without me. Any serious damage, I'd figure a way for him to work at compensating for it. The police ought not be involved...especially for a 6 year old as per op. Also, I am not a bad parent.

 

[TomC]

Also, I am not a bad parent.

The description of your response is evidence that you aren't a bad parent. And there's no need for cops when a SIX year old has parental guidance like you described. You used age appropriate methods to guide your kid away from bad behavior.

But parents who don't take proper care of their children do invite the authorities to get involved. Which appears to be the case here.
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Also, I am not a bad parent.

The description of your response is evidence that you aren't a bad parent. And there's no need for cops when a SIX year old has parental guidance like you described. You used age appropriate methods to guide your kid away from bad behavior.

There is no evidence that this 6 year old with adhd's parents did not act similarly.

But parents who don't take proper care of their children do invite the authorities to get involved. Which appears to be the case here.
Tom

It doesn't appear to be the case here. The property owners have a whole host of options available to them, including moving the bus stop away from their property. Police involvement was not needed, certainly not at the level of charges that are still present.

 

[TomC]

There is no evidence that this 6 year old with adhd's parents did not act similarly.

Sure there is. It's right in front of your nose.

The child wound up in a courtroom.
That's solid evidence that the parents didn't respond appropriately.

It doesn't appear to be the case here. The property owners have a whole host of options available to them, including moving the bus stop away from their property. Police involvement was not needed, certainly not at the level of charges that are still present.

I agree that police involvement was unnecessary. The parents could have responded somewhat like @Don2; did. That's how you teach kids civilized behavior.

Leave it up to the state and you'll have some bad outcomes. A majority of bad outcomes even. The state isn't a parent. Why do you keep going back to victim blaming and ignoring the rule of basic law, without mentioning the possibility that the parent could have prevented this circus? By taking responsibility for their SIX year old child?!
Tom

 

[Gun Nut]

Yeah, twenty lashes should straighten out the little fucker. Plus it would be faster, cheaper and probably more memorable to the mini-felon.

I still see the problem as the parents, not the child.

Riiight, because in your view, there is no issue with an adult filing a criminal complaint against a 6 year old for picking a tulip, and there is also no issue with the police continuing to process a criminal complaint against a 6 year old for picking a tulip or the court system for letting it get as far as it did.

You can't get a stop light installed on a street corner until enough car accidents occur.... to get a bus stop moved may take some legal complaints to point to.

So a possible scenario is that the bus stop is in a stupid place for everybody, a "bad location for both children, the neighborhood property owners, schools, and bus drivers". Local ordinance says that a bus stop cannot be moved unless it is causing harm. Evidence of harm can only be demonstrated through police complaints. Therefore, the only way for the community to improve their children's commute to school is to start collecting complaints from property owners.

another possible scenario is that the property owners know only that their garden keeps getting ripped up, so they filed a police complaint. Police investigation determined the perp was 6.

Another is that this particular child has been seen by many people desroying property all over town, unaccompanied by their parents, and many complaints of disorderly conduct and destruction of private property can be attributed to this particual, very disturbed child. The parents were confronted on multiple occasions and always respond "he's 4 (5, 6, 7...) what are you going to do about it, give him fifty lashes? now go fuck yourselves".

Also possible is that the property owner is an asshole... or lying. Or aliens did it.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

There is no evidence that this 6 year old with adhd's parents did not act similarly.

Sure there is. It's right in front of your nose.

The child wound up in a courtroom.
That's solid evidence that the parents didn't respond appropriately.

No, it isn't. If the parents had not responded appropriately, then there'd be a charge against them personally involving child abuse or neglect. Nothing about picking up a tulip rises to parental neglect or abuse either. So, no, there is no such evidence. You are making an invalid inference with information that is inconsistent with your hypothesis.

It doesn't appear to be the case here. The property owners have a whole host of options available to them, including moving the bus stop away from their property. Police involvement was not needed, certainly not at the level of charges that are still present.

I agree that police involvement was unnecessary. The parents could have responded somewhat like @Don2; did. That's how you teach kids civilized behavior.

Leave it up to the state and you'll have some bad outcomes. A majority of bad outcomes even. The state isn't a parent. Why do you keep going back to victim blaming and ignoring the rule of basic law, without mentioning the possibility that the parent could have prevented this circus? By taking responsibility for their SIX year old child?!
Tom

Once again, this is not victim blaming but instead simply choosing a different option, such as moving the bus stop. It's that simple.

Having police involved is BAD, but it isn't DCF/DCYS deciding the charge against the child--it's an outdated law in NC that allows 6 yr olds to be charged and as the NEIGHBOR decided not to drop the charges, DCF/DCYS has no power to force them to drop the charge. Such chare is not in the interest of the child and therefore DCF/DCYS would not want the charge, even as so-hypothesized leverage against neglectful parents because it's bad for the kid to have that hanging over him. IF parents are neglectful, then an abuse/neglect/etc charge can be made to the social service dept which is the appropriate way to go after such parents, NOT THE KID.

 

[laughing dog]

Riiight, because in your view, there is no issue with an adult filing a criminal complaint against a 6 year old for picking a tulip, and there is also no issue with the police continuing to process a criminal complaint against a 6 year old for picking a tulip or the court system for letting it get as far as it did.

You can't get a stop light installed on a street corner until enough car accidents occur.... to get a bus stop moved may take some legal complaints to point to.

So a possible scenario is that the bus stop is in a stupid place for everybody, a "bad location for both children, the neighborhood property owners, schools, and bus drivers". Local ordinance says that a bus stop cannot be moved unless it is causing harm. Evidence of harm can only be demonstrated through police complaints. Therefore, the only way for the community to improve their children's commute to school is to start collecting complaints from property owners.

another possible scenario is that the property owners know only that their garden keeps getting ripped up, so they filed a police complaint. Police investigation determined the perp was 6.

None of those scenarios justifies a criminal complaint that is processed.

Another is that this particular child has been seen by many people desroying property all over town, unaccompanied by their parents, and many complaints of disorderly conduct and destruction of private property can be attributed to this particual, very disturbed child. The parents were confronted on multiple occasions and always respond "he's 4 (5, 6, 7...) what are you going to do about it, give him fifty lashes? now go fuck yourselves".

Seems unlikely given the facts of the story - if this child was such a problem, there'd have been more complaints.

Also possible is that the property owner is an asshole... or lying. Or aliens did it.

your first option seems the most likely of the three.

 

[TomC]

If the parents had not responded appropriately, then there'd be a charge against them personally involving child abuse or neglect.

How do you know there isn't?

If the parents had responded appropriately, why did their SIX year old wind up in court?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

If the parents had responded appropriately, why did their SIX year old wind up in court?

BECAUSE THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA INSISTED ON ACTING LIKE AN ASS.

 

[TomC]

If the parents had responded appropriately, why did their SIX year old wind up in court?

BECAUSE THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA INSISTED ON ACTING LIKE AN ASS.

Brilliant analysis and evidence.
Kudos.

Tom

 

[laughing dog]

If the parents had responded appropriately, why did their SIX year old wind up in court?

BECAUSE THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA INSISTED ON ACTING LIKE AN ASS.

Brilliant analysis and evidence.
Kudos.

Tom

I just tried to keep it the level of your question.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If the parents had not responded appropriately, then there'd be a charge against them personally involving child abuse or neglect.

How do you know there isn't?

Having both charges against the kid and child abuse/neglect charges against the parents would be both counter-productive and redundant. Counter-productive because it is not in the interest of the child and redundant because it would then be unnecessary. Therefore, the most reasonable inference is that there are not such charges.

If the parents had responded appropriately, why did their SIX year old wind up in court?

A six year old wound up in court because the neighbor did not drop the charge and no other entity in NC can make them do so, including the DCF/DCYS who knows that charging a kid of 6 is bad for them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, that's still stupid. If you live at a bus stop, your garden next to it WILL get fucked with. Period. End of discussion. Just as it's ridiculous to get angry at the sky for rain, it is ridiculous to get angry that bus stops increase exposure to idle hands.

The solution there is to not move into houses at bus stops, or do your gardening in the back.

Doesn't matter how "fed up" they are. At some point, you need to accept that when you build your castles in swamps, they will sink.

So the homeowners should simply sit back and be victims because the parents won't teach their children properly?

I think you're showing exactly why this happened.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If six year olds had a sex drive and were the size of full grown adults, I would say that wearing "slutty" clothing around them was indeed a bad choice.

More of a bad choice in that reality would be letting them out of the house, or for that matter out of a secure facility.

We should be glad that male adults are already adults who understand the consequences from years of education, rather than only 6 and incapable of fully understanding the consequences of their actions and the boundaries of others.

LeOpArDs AtE My FaCe!

Dang you're good at dodging.
My point was about you blaming the people who got vandalized. Instead of the parents who didn't address the problem.

The boy is SIX. He's not the problem, at least not yet.
Tom

A 6 year old kid with adhd at a bus stop at your property will scuff up your lawn, pick up sticks and throw them from your lawn, get bored and do something physical around the property. It's a significant probability that parents cannot physically stop or verbally control their children interacting with nature in such cases. Example: my kid who was older than 6 last year was at bus stop and went onto neighbor's lawn where the stop is and I scolded him not to do it. He picked up a stick and hit the lawn. I lectured him about people's private property and how that was disrespectful. He's done similar things in the past. My lecturing and providing consequences if commensurate with an offense still have mitigated his behavior...would be worse without me. Any serious damage, I'd figure a way for him to work at compensating for it. The police ought not be involved...especially for a 6 year old as per op. Also, I am not a bad parent.

If you have a kid who won't behave, stay with them at the bus stop to ensure they behave.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It doesn't appear to be the case here. The property owners have a whole host of options available to them, including moving the bus stop away from their property. Police involvement was not needed, certainly not at the level of charges that are still present.

So the homeowner somehow picks up the bus stop and moves it?!?! That doesn't pass the laugh test and even if possible it's just a case of passing the trouble around, not solving it.

Parents need to control their children. If they don't someday law enforcement is going to get involved. A kid whose wrongdoing isn't stopped will continue to escalate until it is stopped.

I'm thinking of the kids next door when I was growing up--the parents absolutely would not believe in wrongdoing they didn't witness. I don't know if their bad behavior was ever stopped, it was put on hold by multiple stints behind bars.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

another possible scenario is that the property owners know only that their garden keeps getting ripped up, so they filed a police complaint. Police investigation determined the perp was 6.

Another is that this particular child has been seen by many people desroying property all over town, unaccompanied by their parents, and many complaints of disorderly conduct and destruction of private property can be attributed to this particual, very disturbed child. The parents were confronted on multiple occasions and always respond "he's 4 (5, 6, 7...) what are you going to do about it, give him fifty lashes? now go fuck yourselves".

Also possible is that the property owner is an asshole... or lying. Or aliens did it.

You're missing what I think is the most likely scenario: Homeowners get tired of their garden getting ripped up and put in security cameras. The cameras catch the kid damaging it.

 

[TomC]

Having both charges against the kid and child abuse/neglect charges against the parents would be both counter-productive and redundant. Counter-productive because it is not in the interest of the child and redundant because it would then be unnecessary. Therefore, the most reasonable inference is that there are not such charges.

Here let me give you [MENTION=28]laughing dog[/MENTION]; explanation for this ridiculous situation.

BECAUSE THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA INSISTED ON ACTING LIKE AN ASS.

If the parents had responded appropriately, why did their SIX year old wind up in court?

A six year old wound up in court because the neighbor did not drop the charge and no other entity in NC can make them do so, including the DCF/DCYS who knows that charging a kid of 6 is bad for them.

If women dropped rape accusations more frequently, rape would be less of a problem.
Victims who won't just shut up are obviously the problem

Amirite?

Tom