Believer or not, your epitome of desire, is to be named the Greatest I am.

[steve_bank]

As the abicient Roman philosopher Fornicatyous Maximus said, 'I fornicate therefore I am'.
Buddha went from luxury and comfort in a place to wandering around for a few years practcing extreme Brahman asceticism. Absolute self denial for all things. He oushed it to near death.

His conclusion in the end was the Middle Way. It boiled down to modern practical psychology. Don't let passions and worldly sensory pleasures rule your life and lead you you into trouble, but don't deny your self worldly comfort. Moderation and balance in all things. He was a conservative though. No intoxicants like alcohol or substances, no sex outside of marriage, moderate your speech and actions, no animal flesh.

Buddhism is based on a coherent set of values explicitly defined, no interpretation unlike thise who freely traslate the bible to a personal view.


Obsession with beliefs can lead to ranting to oters about ho ebil and bad they are, while ignoring yiur own self.

Something about glass houses and stones, phi kosher know thyself, or the mote in ones own eye.

Love those biblical metaphors, there is one for all occasions. That is one reason the bible is popular.

 

[Learner]

The best selling book in all of history, I believe.

 

[Rhea]

The best selling book in all of history, I believe.

You don’t get to count tens of millions of copies that your followers buy and leave in hotel rooms and doctors offices and other places without permission. That’s not what “best selling” means.

 

[Learner]

Maybe you don't need to include those bibles in the hotel rooms as part of the equation, if it's a popular book. But I will rephrase and say instead, 'the most sold book in history!'

 

[steve_bank]

The best selling book in all of history, I believe.

A lot of people share the same illusion-delusion, therefore it must be true. More rationalization.

A Christian cliche.

I read the bible because it has historical and contemporary importance, no different than any other literature. I also read the Koran, a Muslim I knew gave me a copy.

My copy is the Oxford NRSV translation along with the lengthy commentary book that goes into each book on translation issues and the cultural context of the times. Job was part of a larger set of lost teaching materials, and Job was likely alegory for captivity. It is what I used in a comparative religion class in philosophy.

There is no possible correct literal translation for the concretion story. It could mean out of chaos god brought order.

 

[Learner]

The best selling book in all of history, I believe.

A lot of people share the same illusion-delusion, therefore it must be true. More rationalization.

A Christian cliche.

I read the bible because it has historical and contemporary importance, no different than any other literature. I also read the Koran, a Muslim I knew gave me a copy.

My copy is the Oxford NRSV translation along with the lengthy commentary book that goes into each book on translation issues and the cultural context of the times. Job was part of a larger set of lost teaching materials, and Job was likely alegory for captivity. It is what I used in a comparative religion class in philosophy.

There is no possible correct literal translation for the concretion story. It could mean out of chaos god brought order.

Well the narrative, the message in all the versions is the same!!

Why would God make it difficult for ordinary humble folk? Why is there a need for a special academic or high staus individual to interpret the bible?

It doesn't necessarily require an intermediate.

I find the bible profound because it can be read on several levels. What I mean here like for example: when Atheists debate by saying, "many Christians only believe because of the emotional feelings they get, it makes them feel all fuzzy inside" or something similar etc.. I would have to agree and say that they're right, more or less.

I don't think they know how right they are - right in the way that the bible is also written on the emotional level, the message expressed in emotional-linguistics so to speak, that the ordinary humble folk 'everywhere' would actually understand and recognize. The emotional language they know so well when it comes to compassion, love, empathy, seeing the sadness and pain in others as well as feeling it themselves. Those feelings are important (an underestmated element) when it comes to bible reading - understanding Jesus's simple commands, what He's saying and why, because in their eyes or in their hearts as simple folk, they understand it on the emotional level to recognize truth in His words.

(I am a simple man, and this is as articulate as I can put it lol)

 

[Keith&Co.]

Epitome means the average or midpoint, not the maximum.

Ok.

The dictionary disagrees.

epitome
[əˈpidəmē]
NOUN
(the epitome of)
a person or thing that is a perfect example of a particular quality or type.

Being French, I try to be careful with English.

What is your mother tongue? It does not seem to be English, but do show where your definition came from.

Regards
DL

No, the dictionary does not disagree with him.
An epitome of a range of examples would be the one exhibiting the greatest number of qualities common to all the examples.

If charted on a bell curve, the sharp bits at either end are outliers.

The epitome is the one at the tippy-top of the hill....in the middle.

Whst you mean is something like my ULTIMATE goal or desire is to be named The Greatest.
But i don't.
I don't want to be the hero. I wanted to be Moonglum. Friar Tuck.

Someone seeks the glory. But someone has to be operating in the support roles so that the hero can excel. He's negotiating a quest, i am packing the saddlebags, seeing to the horses, trying to barter the merchant into throwing in the casing due to the size of my order.

It's what i did in the Navy. Others sought promotions. I wanted to be really good at my system, to dupport those seeking leadership positions.
I do it now. Others work their way up the corporate ladder. I am known for having th e same position for the last 20 years, being a subject matter expert that they can depend on, but not taking charge of the unit.

I think being a dependable cog in a machine is perfectly valid as a self-image. If that disappoints you, it's no dealio for me.

 

[steve_bank]

The best selling book in all of history, I believe.

A lot of people share the same illusion-delusion, therefore it must be true. More rationalization.

A Christian cliche.

I read the bible because it has historical and contemporary importance, no different than any other literature. I also read the Koran, a Muslim I knew gave me a copy.

My copy is the Oxford NRSV translation along with the lengthy commentary book that goes into each book on translation issues and the cultural context of the times. Job was part of a larger set of lost teaching materials, and Job was likely alegory for captivity. It is what I used in a comparative religion class in philosophy.

There is no possible correct literal translation for the concretion story. It could mean out of chaos god brought order.

Well the narrative, the message in all the versions is the same!!

Why would God make it difficult for ordinary humble folk? Why is there a need for a special academic or high staus individual to interpret the bible?

It doesn't necessarily require an intermediate.

I find the bible profound because it can be read on several levels. What I mean here like for example: when Atheists debate by saying, "many Christians only believe because of the emotional feelings they get, it makes them feel all fuzzy inside" or something similar etc.. I would have to agree and say that they're right, more or less.

I don't think they know how right they are - right in the way that the bible is also written on the emotional level, the message expressed in emotional-linguistics so to speak, that the ordinary humble folk 'everywhere' would actually understand and recognize. The emotional language they know so well when it comes to compassion, love, empathy, seeing the sadness and pain in others as well as feeling it themselves. Those feelings are important (an underestmated element) when it comes to bible reading - understanding Jesus's simple commands, what He's saying and why, because in their eyes or in their hearts as simple folk, they understand it on the emotional level to recognize truth in His words.

(I am a simple man, and this is as articulate as I can put it lol)

Exactly what message? Leviticus? Conform or suffer eternal torment in hell?

The gospel message is suffer your situation however bad, your reward is in an afterlife.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Do you have a question to discuss? Or is this just spam preaching? It’s the third time you have posted the identical screed.

Do you recognize the truth of the premise?

Regards
DL

No. In the Bible, God commands murders, massacres, and genocides. In the NT, Jesus speaks in parables so some people will not understand him and be forgiven their sins and saved. God calls those to Jesus as God pleases, and not others. Paul's sour theology. God arbitrarily hates some and not others, God the Great Potter. God makes some elect and saved and others not elect.

Divine fatalism. God has foreknowledge of future events. And creates all. If God creates all, God must choose an initial starting state of creation. All happens as it does from that point deterministically. We have no free will. So all horrendous moral evil in this Universe is God's knowing and personal creation. yet we are told we have free will and that God is perfectly good, all good in this Universe is a creation from God.

None of this makes any sense. Throwing logic and rational thinking out and believing foolish superstitions is not a desirable state of existence. Diligently searching for truth is a duty. Not emulating woolly minded prophets, shamen, theologians, and self elected voices of God.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

[

I think being a dependable cog in a machine is perfectly valid as a self-image. If that disappoints you, it's no dealio for me.

Me??

I know and like you buddy but I would only be unhappy with you if I was your parent.

I thought you were one of the warriors and not a drone or sheeple.

Accepting a challenge for excellence keeps one sharp.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Do you have a question to discuss? Or is this just spam preaching? It’s the third time you have posted the identical screed.

Do you recognize the truth of the premise?

Regards
DL

No. In the Bible, God commands murders, massacres, and genocides. In the NT, Jesus speaks in parables so some people will not understand him and be forgiven their sins and saved. God calls those to Jesus as God pleases, and not others. Paul's sour theology. God arbitrarily hates some and not others, God the Great Potter. God makes some elect and saved and others not elect.

Divine fatalism. God has foreknowledge of future events. And creates all. If God creates all, God must choose an initial starting state of creation. All happens as it does from that point deterministically. We have no free will. So all horrendous moral evil in this Universe is God's knowing and personal creation. yet we are told we have free will and that God is perfectly good, all good in this Universe is a creation from God.

None of this makes any sense. Throwing logic and rational thinking out and believing foolish superstitions is not a desirable state of existence. Diligently searching for truth is a duty. Not emulating woolly minded prophets, shamen, theologians, and self elected voices of God.

Not much there that has to do with the premise except you disagreeing, without showing why.

Regards
DL

 

[atrib]

Not much there that has to do with the premise except you disagreeing, without showing why.

Regards
DL

Your original post in this thread was nothing more than preaching, spewing out a lot of unsupported assertions. Any claim that is unsupported by evidence can be dismissed out of hand. Do you have something meaningful to discuss, or are you here simply to present a monologue without interaction with your audience?

Believer or not, your epitome of desire, is to be named the Greatest I am.

Explain why we should accept this premise, with evidence and reasoned arguments. What studies are you referencing? Do the studies support your position? Don't just make up shit - that only makes you look like a pompous jackass.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Believer or not, your epitome of desire, is to be named the Greatest I am.

Explain why we should accept this premise, with evidence and reasoned arguments. What studies are you referencing? Do the studies support your position? Don't just make up shit - that only makes you look like a pompous jackass.

You look more that than I.

I used "Greatest I am" to show and have it be synonymous in your mind for whatever you want to use as the epitome of fitness and what you should be seeking, given that you are an evolving human.

Now, if you have no internal synonym to that, you are defective.

It is demonstrable that nature always creates for the best possible end, and your consciousness calls or names that condition something synonymous with your fittest possible self.

From your reply, you do not seem to have any Gnosis of what you are and do.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

Believer or not, your epitome of desire, is to be named the Greatest I am.

Explain why we should accept this premise, with evidence and reasoned arguments. What studies are you referencing? Do the studies support your position? Don't just make up shit - that only makes you look like a pompous jackass.

You look more that than I.

I used "Greatest I am" to show and have it be synonymous in your mind for whatever you want to use as the epitome of fitness and what you should be seeking, given that you are an evolving human.

Now, if you have no internal synonym to that, you are defective.

It is demonstrable that nature always creates for the best possible end, and your consciousness calls or names that condition something synonymous with your fittest possible self.

From your reply, you do not seem to have any Gnosis of what you are and do.

Regards
DL

Demonstrable?

Only with the syllogisms and logic that theists use to claim as proof, without any objective basis.

It is obvious that the universe coud not come to be without a god to create it, therefore god exists.

It is obvious nature creates the best of all possible realities, therefore it does.

In order to make that claim one has to enumerate all possible alternatives, which is impossible.

Substituting 'nature' for god as a creative force with intent is a form of mysticism, and of a need to worship something. Worship god or worship nature, to me no difference. The sane need and psychology.

The Hindu scripturas have it.

 

[Keith&Co.]

[

I think being a dependable cog in a machine is perfectly valid as a self-image. If that disappoints you, it's no dealio for me.

Me??

I know and like you buddy but I would only be unhappy with you if I was your parent.

that was in response to "I see it as a shame when someone stops competing to be the greatest at something."
Keep your pity, it's misplaced projection.

I thought you were one of the warriors and not a drone or sheeple.

I was a warrior. There just isn't room for everyone to be the tip of the spear.
The heroes at the pointy end need the shaft, too, or it isn't a spear.
Or, the bullet needs the gun.
The missile requires the silo.
The nozzleman needs the hoseman and the guys operating the pumps...

Accepting a challenge for excellence keeps one sharp.

I do excellent work, i just am not constantly clawing for promotions.
I don't need the company president to know my name to feel validated. I get that when i joke about retiring and watch my supervisor panic.

 

[Keith&Co.]

It is demonstrable that nature always creates for the best possible end,

No, it's not.
Gene pools evolve, not individuals. Evolutionary advancements are more along the lines of a slightly better epitome than the greatest possible.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You look more that than I.

I used "Greatest I am" to show and have it be synonymous in your mind for whatever you want to use as the epitome of fitness and what you should be seeking, given that you are an evolving human.

Now, if you have no internal synonym to that, you are defective.

It is demonstrable that nature always creates for the best possible end, and your consciousness calls or names that condition something synonymous with your fittest possible self.

From your reply, you do not seem to have any Gnosis of what you are and do.

Regards
DL

Demonstrable?

Only with the syllogisms and logic that theists use to claim as proof, without any objective basis.

It is obvious that the universe coud not come to be without a god to create it, therefore god exists.

It is obvious nature creates the best of all possible realities, therefore it does.

In order to make that claim one has to enumerate all possible alternatives, which is impossible.

Substituting 'nature' for god as a creative force with intent is a form of mysticism, and of a need to worship something. Worship god or worship nature, to me no difference. The sane need and psychology.

The Hindu scripturas have it.

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

that was in response to "I see it as a shame when someone stops competing to be the greatest at something."
Keep your pity, it's misplaced projection.

I thought you were one of the warriors and not a drone or sheeple.

I was a warrior. There just isn't room for everyone to be the tip of the spear.
The heroes at the pointy end need the shaft, too, or it isn't a spear.
Or, the bullet needs the gun.
The missile requires the silo.
The nozzleman needs the hoseman and the guys operating the pumps...

Accepting a challenge for excellence keeps one sharp.

I do excellent work, i just am not constantly clawing for promotions.
I don't need the company president to know my name to feel validated. I get that when i joke about retiring and watch my supervisor panic.

Work is one challenge.

I was looking at the total picture and joy of life when competing.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

It is demonstrable that nature always creates for the best possible end,

No, it's not.

Such certainty, in spite of the evidence against.

Show where you see nature not doing it's best when trying to give life, remembering that as a part of nature, your parents likely did not want the best part of you running down your dad's legs.

Did you father any children?

For theor best possible end or something else?

Gene pools evolve, not individuals. Evolutionary advancements are more along the lines of a slightly better epitome than the greatest possible.

Are you the same I.Q. now as when younger, or did it improve/evolve you?

Epitome is the Greatest/best/fittest, the way I use language.

Regards
DL

 

[atrib]

Believer or not, your epitome of desire, is to be named the Greatest I am.

Explain why we should accept this premise, with evidence and reasoned arguments. What studies are you referencing? Do the studies support your position? Don't just make up shit - that only makes you look like a pompous jackass.

You look more that than I.

In what way? All I have done is ask you to support your assertion with evidence and reason, because I am not willing to simply take your word for it. How does that make me pompous?

I used "Greatest I am" to show and have it be synonymous in your mind for whatever you want to use as the epitome of fitness and what you should be seeking, given that you are an evolving human.

Every human on the planet is different. We all think differently and are motivated by different things, although we can sometimes be typecast into broad general categories. Second, individuals do not evolve, biologically speaking, but populations of humans do. I was born with the genes I was born with, and those do not change. We do change physiologically as we live, but that is not evolution. Not every human desires to be the "epitome of fitness", whatever that is supposed to mean. Some of us are content to live our lives in the slower lanes, savoring every moment without the drive to become the best at what we do. If fact, the overachievers are the minority. There are very few Michael Jordans and Elon Musks in the world; most of us are just average. Your assertion is demonstrably wrong, else bell-shaped curves and grading/selection based on test scores would not exist.

Now, if you have no internal synonym to that, you are defective.

I have no fucking clue what this means. I am defective because I don't want to be greatest human in the world? Are you fucking kidding me?

It is demonstrable that nature always creates for the best possible end, and your consciousness calls or names that condition something synonymous with your fittest possible self.

So demonstrate it. Instead of just making unsupported assertions.

No, nature does NOT create the best possible end. Evolution has no goal to be perfect or to necessarily optimize the design to the best possible state; it is a mechanism that selects for the fittest among a group of individuals, but that doesn't mean nature creates perfection or even the best possible outcome. A lot of it is driven by blind luck and circumstance. You need to be good enough and lucky enough to survive and reproduce, not to be the best at anything. You clearly do not understand how evolution works.

From your reply, you do not seem to have any Gnosis of what you are and do.

I know exactly who I am and what makes me happy. I am not spiritual in that I do not believe supernatural nonsense, but one can be knowledgeable of the world and their place in it, and lead a fulfilling life without believing such nonsense.

So I ask you again, are you here to preach, or to discuss ideas?