Woke is white arrogance

[Gospel]

Awe look, it's another take on history from a white person's point of view. Don't yall have enough of that already? Gosh.

Edit: Removed Curse

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Woke still fucking sucks. I hope it dies soon.

Speaking of virtue signaling...

 

[untermensche]

Yes, you prove that this nothingness called "woke" is just the latest Pavlov bell that has replaced "political correctness".

I love Tarrantino and find external limitations on artists like him repulsive. The left respects artistic integrity, not the right.

This is just a tiny minority of nutty people doing it.

As opposed to the widespread insanity of the well trained dogs barking about "wokeness" on command.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Awe look, it's another take on history from a white person's point of view. Don't yall have enough of that already? Gosh.

Edit: Removed Curse

Well... the interview isn't about woke or PC in general. It's about Tarantino and his work in particular. He is white. So sure. What other perspective should he have? This is also an excerpt from a longer interview. I'm sure they also talked about other stuff as well.

I'm not seeing Tarantino as a hero of the downtrodden. It's more like he spearheaded an inevitable reaction to the 80'ies woke movement. But if it hadn't been him, it'd been somebody else. A lot of people were so sick of PC back then. Me included. I didn't understand I was. But my values I had then, was a result of that. PC culture was suffocating. It killed every ability to show an authentic feeling. So we didn't even try. We instead tried being as fake as possible. Pushed PC beyond a point where it became a surrealist joke.

That said, one of my teenage heroes, Spike Lee. He's super politically correct and super woke. Has been all the time. His rise to fame was because of the PC culture of the 80'ies. The PC culture, in all it's suffocating fakery, served him well. The 80'ies gave him a voice and a platform he wouldn't otherwise have had.

This just shows structural racism in action. To put it simply, if you are black and you want to rise in Hollywood, you have to play the PC/woke game or you won't stand a chance. While non-woke directors are effectively blocked from any platform.

PC/Woke blacks are safe and harmless. Because we know what they will say. They will say the current acceptable inflammatory PC things against the current approved targets. White people pretend to care. We get to feel good about ourselves. Nothing changes.

Do we have famous non-woke directors?

If the blacks we allow to speak are in a neutered PC prison, we have done them no favours. The world is just a racist. Until blacks can say and do things that make progressive white people squirm uncomfortably in their seats and the blacks get to keep their jobs, we have have had little progress.

We have put Spike Lee in a Catch-22 position. He's successful and famous because he's PC. If he wasn't PC he wouldn't have gotten anywhere. He's not free to voice any opinion. Woke is fake freedom and superficial black empowerment. I still think Spike Lee is awesome. But we will only let him speak if he keeps to the party line.

I would love to hear black voices speaking freely on this. But I don't think our culture (not just USA) would allow them.

Or to put it another way, no way in hell a black director could have done Reservoir Dogs in 1991. Because of structural racism.

That's what I think.

 

[Swammerdami]

I was Born in the U.S.A. but live elsewhere now, and am out-of-touch. I'm not sure what "Wokism" is, or why it's so dreadful. It would be nice to see some real-world examples of Wokism from opinion-makers. Just so I know what we're talking about.

I heard that I saw it on Mulberry Street is now out-of-print, and that saddened me a bit. But surely there are better examples if Wokism is really such a problem.

I read through the first 100 posts in this thread, hoping to find an example. Here are the closest the thread came to specific examples:

The term "native American" is used by wokes as more respectful term for Indian. But "American" is a European term. The term Native American and Indian are equivalent and both imply that the Native Americans/Indians are lesser than the white immigrant population. Both terms are inherently racist. There's no shortage of Native American languages to pick words from. Perhaps one of those? But those won't catch on, because then the majority population wokes won't have a word, they understand, telling them how much more awesome they are than Native Americans.

One reason "Indians" has fallen into disfavor is because that term is often used to describe people from ... (did you guess?) ... India. I will file this example under pointless and silly.

You remind me of feminists who has the answer "it's the patriarchy" to whatever they don't like.

Their noisy, smug, self righteousness is sometimes insufferable. While I recognize that not all Wokesters are like that, enough are to give me a tendency to use Woke as a derogatory.
...
If empathetic and civilized behavior was all there was to Woke, I'd be all about it. But it isn't. Not in my long experience.
Tom

Many Americans are obnoxious, one way or another. It's fair to say that many anti-Wokesters are noisy, smug, self righteousness, sometimes insufferably so.

We had pride here in Copenhagen last week. The city was covered in rainbow flags.

I clicked on Facebook's "rainbowize your profile picture" after both my sisters did. Am I Woke?

It's 100% fake and disingenuous.

Woke IS racism.

These have also been called luxury beliefs, as material items no longer distinguish the rich from the poor.

In addition to what you just said, these beliefs are also heavily taught in liberal institutions. And today there are far too many over educated people competing for too few good paying jobs. These people really can't brag about their money or their penis size (which they really don't have that much of anyway) so they brag to each other about what they learned in school.

Woke means bragging about one's education?

You've characterised woke as entirely pretentious and insincere and concerned solely with improving one's own esteem, but that is definitely not the impression I get from reading Politesse's posts. I see the opposite: Politesse's posts indicate he's a academic who takes his subject matter seriously and has genuine interest in understanding people. You yourself advocate for the tolerance of ignorance, but it should be obvious that this is totally incompatible with the pursuit of knowledge. I certainly would not expect a serious academic to be willing to let ignorant statements about society and human nature go unchallenged.

I've seen a few conservatives boast online that they are the ones feeding and clothing the homeless, but at the same time, those same people oppose more ambitious projects that would actually put people in houses and buy food for themselves. Those more ambitious projects are typically characterised as left-wing policies, because government assumes the community's responsibility to look after the poor. Do these conservatives feel like they are being robbed of an opportunity to be charitable? Do they disagree with who exactly government is helping? I don't really understand the attitude.

I think you'll find that progressives do practical things to help as well, but you're probably looking in the wrong places. Progressives are more likely to make practical help their full time occupation. For an example specific to homelessness, there are social workers whose full time job is to find vulnerable people a place to live and a job, and they work within a network of other people whose full time job is providing for people's wellbeing and future. Mind you, you might not meet these people if your social calendar finds you mixing with pretentious wankers at art exhibitions.

So, many of the Woke are sincere and caring.

The first 100 posts include the same request from me that I'm repeating now:

Within Islamism and Wokism leadership is mostly just about parroting popular slogans while having policies utterly devoid of any substance. It's leaders are more concerned about just staying in power for its own sake rather than doing anything worthwhile with that power. They must surely know everything out of their mouth is disingenuous. At this point it's all utter fantasy.

Examples please. Are there Americans spouting "wokism" disingenuously to stay in power? Who are they, and what are examples of their wokist nonsense?

My post got only one response:

Examples please. Are there Americans spouting "wokism" disingenuously to stay in power? Who are they, and what are examples of their wokist nonsense?

"Them". They are the ones doing it. For fuck's sake, haven't you been paying attention in this thread? "They" are being too "woke" and are evil because of reasons. It's so fucking simple I'm almost embarrassed for you that you don't get it.

I believe "Wokism" is probably real, but I want to wrap my head around it with important and useful examples. But until I see some better examples, I will assume that all the prattle about "Wokism" is just more nonsense from the Hannity-Carlson Bullshit Machine.

 

[Jarhyn]

Or in other words, "any white person who applies the term to any other person is arrogant", to the extent that a westerner calling themselves a medicine man in front of First Peoples deserves the slap, social or physical, they are about to receive.

 

[Gospel]

Awe look, it's another take on history from a white person's point of view. Don't yall have enough of that already? Gosh.

Edit: Removed Curse

Well... the interview isn't about woke or PC in general. It's about Tarantino and his work in particular. He is white. So sure. What other perspective should he have? This is also an excerpt from a longer interview. I'm sure they also talked about other stuff as well.

I'm not seeing Tarantino as a hero of the downtrodden. It's more like he spearheaded an inevitable reaction to the 80'ies woke movement. But if it hadn't been him, it'd been somebody else. A lot of people were so sick of PC back then. Me included. I didn't understand I was. But my values I had then, was a result of that. PC culture was suffocating. It killed every ability to show an authentic feeling. So we didn't even try. We instead tried being as fake as possible. Pushed PC beyond a point where it became a surrealist joke.

That said, one of my teenage heroes, Spike Lee. He's super politically correct and super woke. Has been all the time. His rise to fame was because of the PC culture of the 80'ies. The PC culture, in all it's suffocating fakery, served him well. The 80'ies gave him a voice and a platform he wouldn't otherwise have had.

This just shows structural racism in action. To put it simply, if you are black and you want to rise in Hollywood, you have to play the PC/woke game or you won't stand a chance. While non-woke directors are effectively blocked from any platform.

PC/Woke blacks are safe and harmless. Because we know what they will say. They will say the current acceptable inflammatory PC things against the current approved targets. White people pretend to care. We get to feel good about ourselves. Nothing changes.

Do we have famous non-woke directors?

If the blacks we allow to speak are in a neutered PC prison, we have done them no favours. The world is just a racist. Until blacks can say and do things that make progressive white people squirm uncomfortably in their seats and the blacks get to keep their jobs, we have have had little progress.

We have put Spike Lee in a Catch-22 position. He's successful and famous because he's PC. If he wasn't PC he wouldn't have gotten anywhere. He's not free to voice any opinion. Woke is fake freedom and superficial black empowerment. I still think Spike Lee is awesome. But we will only let him speak if he keeps to the party line.

I would love to hear black voices speaking freely on this. But I don't think our culture (not just USA) would allow them.

Or to put it another way, no way in hell a black director could have done Reservoir Dogs in 1991. Because of structural racism.

That's what I think.

Can you tell me what the definition of PC is to you so that I may re-read what you wrote with that in mind?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

While non-woke directors are effectively blocked from any platform.

It's a shame that Tarantino could never become successful.

 

[Rhea]

This style of mocking and holier-than-thou antipathy towards the idea of being “woke” to the needs, concerns and pain of others is interesting to behold. It is a repeated poke-poke-poke to agitate and keep agitated to make sure that those who care about justice and the well being of others know that they are mocked and disdained by a few dominance-fetishers who think care is a weakness. It’s the equivalent of the schoolyard bully who constantly bumps and pushes those they deem “weaker” and calls them “fag” or “pussy.”

It manifests here on TFT as this constant barrage of posts by a very small number of posters repeating the same shallow insults over and over. “Wokester.” “Virtue Signaling.” It used to include “PC” as an insult. See how I disdain your care for others. See how weak I think you are. See how I can knock your schoolbooks out of your hand onto the hallway floor and you won’t do it back to me? That means I’m powerful. That means I’m alpha. In my head, anyway.


When a discussion in one of these threads directs towards why compassion is valuable, and why being aware and supportive of the lived experiences of others is not something people are ashamed of, the schoolyard-style bullies keep name-calling for a while, then drop it, and go start another thread with their current mocking words; they run to another student and knock over their books and stand around with their chest out thinking everyone admires their “strength” and dominance.


So - yeah yeah yeah. Wokester. Virtue Signalling. PC run amok.


I am **GLAD** to be awake to the realities of others. I was insulated for so long not realizing what my world was like for others.
I am **GLAD** to signal to others what virtues I find important; among them care, concern, justice
I am **GLAD** to know what language hurts, and avoid it in favor of lannguage that doesn’t hurt. Hooray for Politically Correct norms.

And I’ll keep thinking this next week, when I watch the bullies again posture and preen with their displays of mocking and disdain, their acts of dominance-seeking where they try to knock others down so they can feel strong and worthwhile. And I’ll keep thinking, “how sad is that. They have to work so hard to feel worthwhile. They never feel content and loved. Gotta shove people to the ground so they can feel tall. No one taught them how to build to feel big, they only learned how to destroy others. And they don’t even realize that no one looks at that display and thinks they are powerful. Or - maybe they do know that, but they only know one way to feel powerful and they just have to keep using it, even while they know it doesn’t work.”


I know this and other posts will continue to sprout up. Mock the caring, disdain cooperative aspirations. Try to sell dominance as the only virtue. Beat the chest. Howl the monkey howls.

The dogs bark, but the caravan goes on.

 

[TomC]

I was Born in the U.S.A. but live elsewhere now, and am out-of-touch. I'm not sure what "Wokism" is, or why it's so dreadful. It would be nice to see some real-world examples of Wokism from opinion-makers. Just so I know what we're talking about.

The problem is that the word is vague.

The first two meanings in post 439 are both accurate. And it's hard to draw any lines in there.

In a way, it's like the label "Christian". There's no clear meaning. Anybody can call themselves that. But those who don't self identify as Christian are less likely to know the majority of perfectly nice Christian people. Mostly they hear about the assholish ones who are really noisy and self centered. The kind who will scream about gay marriage destroying the family, while they're working on their third divorce.
Tom

 

[DrZoidberg]

While non-woke directors are effectively blocked from any platform.

It's a shame that Tarantino could never become successful.

I see I missed a word. I meant "While non-woke black directors are effectively blocked from any platform."

sorry. Now the sentence makes sense

 

[RVonse]

This style of mocking and holier-than-thou antipathy towards the idea of being “woke” to the needs, concerns and pain of others is interesting to behold. It is a repeated poke-poke-poke to agitate and keep agitated to make sure that those who care about justice and the well being of others know that they are mocked and disdained by a few dominance-fetishers who think care is a weakness. It’s the equivalent of the schoolyard bully who constantly bumps and pushes those they deem “weaker” and calls them “fag” or “pussy.”

It manifests here on TFT as this constant barrage of posts by a very small number of posters repeating the same shallow insults over and over. “Wokester.” “Virtue Signaling.” It used to include “PC” as an insult. See how I disdain your care for others. See how weak I think you are. See how I can knock your schoolbooks out of your hand onto the hallway floor and you won’t do it back to me? That means I’m powerful. That means I’m alpha. In my head, anyway.


When a discussion in one of these threads directs towards why compassion is valuable, and why being aware and supportive of the lived experiences of others is not something people are ashamed of, the schoolyard-style bullies keep name-calling for a while, then drop it, and go start another thread with their current mocking words; they run to another student and knock over their books and stand around with their chest out thinking everyone admires their “strength” and dominance.


So - yeah yeah yeah. Wokester. Virtue Signalling. PC run amok.


I am **GLAD** to be awake to the realities of others. I was insulated for so long not realizing what my world was like for others.
I am **GLAD** to signal to others what virtues I find important; among them care, concern, justice
I am **GLAD** to know what language hurts, and avoid it in favor of lannguage that doesn’t hurt. Hooray for Politically Correct norms.

And I’ll keep thinking this next week, when I watch the bullies again posture and preen with their displays of mocking and disdain, their acts of dominance-seeking where they try to knock others down so they can feel strong and worthwhile. And I’ll keep thinking, “how sad is that. They have to work so hard to feel worthwhile. They never feel content and loved. Gotta shove people to the ground so they can feel tall. No one taught them how to build to feel big, they only learned how to destroy others. And they don’t even realize that no one looks at that display and thinks they are powerful. Or - maybe they do know that, but they only know one way to feel powerful and they just have to keep using it, even while they know it doesn’t work.”


I know this and other posts will continue to sprout up. Mock the caring, disdain cooperative aspirations. Try to sell dominance as the only virtue. Beat the chest. Howl the monkey howls.

The dogs bark, but the caravan goes on.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being compassionate to others. And even though you don't agree with DrZoidberg perhaps you might go halfway and at least allow for artists like Tarantino the freedom to produce content they think others might pay to consume. You don't have to go to their movies or agree with their content but just allow them their freedom of expression and first amendment rights as you would expect them to respect yours.

And above all else, don't claim to be something you really aren't. If you are woke and want to conduct your life privately as woke... that's perfect. Just don't be a big fake "woker" and pretend to be woke just for your own personal and selfish gain. Even Jesus himself knew better when he said it was better to only put a penny in the offering plate in secret than to put a $100 dollar bill in the plate and make a big public horse show over it.

Anyway I think that is what DrZoid is saying.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-XevURCBpw&t=241s[/YOUTUBE]

Here's an other perspective on woke, which I thought was interesting.

It's Quentin Tarrantino talking about political correctness and cinema.

And then your post just kind of wanders off into the woods. Tarrantino's point seems a bit muddled and oddly ignorant. Hollywood has had plenty of shifts in films and style. The way he talks, he makes it seem like the 20s to 70s didn't go back and forth. Fuck, the censors when The Code was put together? In This Our Lives, the ending had to change and off Bette Davis because the censors felt it would have encouraged bad behavior among people. Conservatives have been hounding cinema for a century now!

Tarrantino is a unique talent, the "Dead Nigger Parking" scene probably doesn't work for anyone else on the planet, but he sells it. But he must be suffering from brain trauma. The 80s was the transition to PG-13 (R-13 as put by the non-woke / non-PC conservatives). The conservatives were whining about movies like Parenthood and Batman having PG-13 ratings and being unsuitable for teenagers to watch (granted, some of the content of Parenthood did go well over my head). Gremlins created a fervor that its PG rating was absurd. The 1980s began selling harder and more graphic material to younger audiences. So, I'm uncertain what the heck Tarrantino is on about. The 90s wasn't from a bridge from the 70s. Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, Die Hard, Terminator, Aliens... what exactly was missing in the 80s?

 

[ZiprHead]

While non-woke directors are effectively blocked from any platform.

It's a shame that Tarantino could never become successful.

I see I missed a word. I meant "While non-woke black directors are effectively blocked from any platform."

Citation, please.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I see I missed a word. I meant "While non-woke black directors are effectively blocked from any platform."

Citation, please.

Wouldn't we need a pool of black directors to begin with? There are not a lot of black film makers.

 

[ZiprHead]

I see I missed a word. I meant "While non-woke black directors are effectively blocked from any platform."

Citation, please.

Wouldn't we need a pool of black directors to begin with? There are not a lot of black film makers.

Actually there are.

 

[Gospel]

I was Born in the U.S.A. but live elsewhere now, and am out-of-touch. I'm not sure what "Wokism" is, or why it's so dreadful. It would be nice to see some real-world examples of Wokism from opinion-makers. Just so I know what we're talking about.

The problem is that the word is vague.

The first two meanings in post 439 are both accurate. And it's hard to draw any lines in there.

In a way, it's like the label "Christian". There's no clear meaning. Anybody can call themselves that. But those who don't self identify as Christian are less likely to know the majority of perfectly nice Christian people. Mostly they hear about the assholish ones who are really noisy and self centered. The kind who will scream about gay marriage destroying the family, while they're working on their third divorce.
Tom

Wow. Life does exist outside Television and the internet ya know. Christians and Atheists for example mingle with each other offline and off-air on a daily basis without any of this hyperbole you just mentioned. You need to go outside bruh.

 

[Patooka]

While non-woke directors are effectively blocked from any platform.

It's a shame that Tarantino could never become successful.

I see I missed a word. I meant "While non-woke black directors are effectively blocked from any platform."

sorry. Now the sentence makes sense

Sure, you definitely nailed the part of your statement that made zero fucking sense. The rest of it was clear and insightful.

 

[TomC]

I was Born in the U.S.A. but live elsewhere now, and am out-of-touch. I'm not sure what "Wokism" is, or why it's so dreadful. It would be nice to see some real-world examples of Wokism from opinion-makers. Just so I know what we're talking about.

The problem is that the word is vague.

The first two meanings in post 439 are both accurate. And it's hard to draw any lines in there.

In a way, it's like the label "Christian". There's no clear meaning. Anybody can call themselves that. But those who don't self identify as Christian are less likely to know the majority of perfectly nice Christian people. Mostly they hear about the assholish ones who are really noisy and self centered. The kind who will scream about gay marriage destroying the family, while they're working on their third divorce.
Tom

Wow. Life does exist outside Television and the internet ya know. Christians and Atheists for example mingle with each other offline and off-air on a daily basis without any of this hyperbole you just mentioned. You need to go outside bruh.

Seriously?
I'm a gay non-theist from a conservative Catholic family, living in southern Indiana(practically Mike Pence's hometown).
I am very much aware of all this. But not everyone is.
Tom

 

[DrZoidberg]

This style of mocking and holier-than-thou antipathy towards the idea of being “woke” to the needs, concerns and pain of others is interesting to behold. It is a repeated poke-poke-poke to agitate and keep agitated to make sure that those who care about justice and the well being of others know that they are mocked and disdained by a few dominance-fetishers who think care is a weakness. It’s the equivalent of the schoolyard bully who constantly bumps and pushes those they deem “weaker” and calls them “fag” or “pussy.”

It manifests here on TFT as this constant barrage of posts by a very small number of posters repeating the same shallow insults over and over. “Wokester.” “Virtue Signaling.” It used to include “PC” as an insult. See how I disdain your care for others. See how weak I think you are. See how I can knock your schoolbooks out of your hand onto the hallway floor and you won’t do it back to me? That means I’m powerful. That means I’m alpha. In my head, anyway.


When a discussion in one of these threads directs towards why compassion is valuable, and why being aware and supportive of the lived experiences of others is not something people are ashamed of, the schoolyard-style bullies keep name-calling for a while, then drop it, and go start another thread with their current mocking words; they run to another student and knock over their books and stand around with their chest out thinking everyone admires their “strength” and dominance.


So - yeah yeah yeah. Wokester. Virtue Signalling. PC run amok.


I am **GLAD** to be awake to the realities of others. I was insulated for so long not realizing what my world was like for others.
I am **GLAD** to signal to others what virtues I find important; among them care, concern, justice
I am **GLAD** to know what language hurts, and avoid it in favor of lannguage that doesn’t hurt. Hooray for Politically Correct norms.

And I’ll keep thinking this next week, when I watch the bullies again posture and preen with their displays of mocking and disdain, their acts of dominance-seeking where they try to knock others down so they can feel strong and worthwhile. And I’ll keep thinking, “how sad is that. They have to work so hard to feel worthwhile. They never feel content and loved. Gotta shove people to the ground so they can feel tall. No one taught them how to build to feel big, they only learned how to destroy others. And they don’t even realize that no one looks at that display and thinks they are powerful. Or - maybe they do know that, but they only know one way to feel powerful and they just have to keep using it, even while they know it doesn’t work.”


I know this and other posts will continue to sprout up. Mock the caring, disdain cooperative aspirations. Try to sell dominance as the only virtue. Beat the chest. Howl the monkey howls.

The dogs bark, but the caravan goes on.

I think you miss the point. Being opposed to woke, isn't to bully or hurt people. It's the other way around. It's to stop the bullying and hurting of people. The wokes are the bad guys.

What you are saying only applies if you really are awake to the realities of others. How do you know you are? How do you know you're not part of an act? An act where white people pat themselves on the back for being virtuous and awesome. How do you know that CRT actually proves what it says it proves? Woke language stops free expression which hampers any progress of any kind. Being woke prevents you from being to evaluate whether or not being woke is useful.

It's not about wanting to say hurty things to people.

But you've underlined the problem with the woke position. It's a black and white world where the woke are the good, and the non woke are the bad who wants to hurt people, and their only motivation for not being woke is because they are evil. It's a simplistic world view. It's painfully naive IMHO