RussiaGate

[KeepTalking]

How do you know that?
It's an established fact that "opposition" (it's called non-systemic opposition by Russian government) is financed by anonymous donation which can not be traced. Imagine that happening in US.

So, I take it that a similar app developed in Russia, by Russians, with Russian money only, would be a-okay with Putin.

Probably not. this app would still be like giving water and food to people waiting in line to vote.
Voting should be as hard as possible and as dumb as possible.

Hard as possible = very few people get to vote.
Dumb as possible = only one choice for whom to vote.

Putin must love you.

 

[barbos]

Probably not. this app would still be like giving water and food to people waiting in line to vote.
Voting should be as hard as possible and as dumb as possible.

Hard as possible = very few people get to vote.
Dumb as possible = only one choice for whom to vote.

Putin must love you.

It went right over your head.

 

[KeepTalking]

Probably not. this app would still be like giving water and food to people waiting in line to vote.
Voting should be as hard as possible and as dumb as possible.

Hard as possible = very few people get to vote.
Dumb as possible = only one choice for whom to vote.

Putin must love you.

It went right over your head.

Non sequiturs usually do.

 

[TomC]

Probably not. this app would still be like giving water and food to people waiting in line to vote.
Voting should be as hard as possible and as dumb as possible.

Hard as possible = very few people get to vote.
Dumb as possible = only one choice for whom to vote.

Putin must love you.

It went right over your head.

It went over mine as well.

It sounded like you oppose basic secular humanist values. To me, that translates into immorality.
Tom

 

[barbos]

It went right over your head.

It went over mine as well.

It clearly did.

 

[Copernicus]

It went right over your head.

It went over mine as well.

It clearly did.

Perhaps it would not have gone over their heads if your comment about the app were clarified. You said that Putin would "probably not" be in favor of an app that was developed exclusively by Russians and with Russian money alone. You continued with a statement that the app would be like giving water and food to people standing in line to vote. Then you said that voting should be as hard and "dumb" as possible. That is, you seemed to want people to have barriers to voting, especially to voting for more than one real candidate. The simplest way to accomplish that would be to have a dictator and no voting at all, but it would look even worse outside of Russia than it already does. So you ended up seeming to both agree and disagree with the idea that the app ought to be banned. Your intended meaning was unclear. Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing?

 

[TomC]

It clearly did.

Perhaps it would not have gone over their heads if your comment about the app were clarified. You said that Putin would "probably not" be in favor of an app that was developed exclusively by Russians and with Russian money alone. You continued with a statement that the app would be like giving water and food to people standing in line to vote. Then you said that voting should be as hard and "dumb" as possible. That is, you seemed to want people to have barriers to voting, especially to voting for more than one real candidate. The simplest way to accomplish that would be to have a dictator and no voting at all, but it would look even worse outside of Russia than it already does. So you ended up seeming to both agree and disagree with the idea that the app ought to be banned. Your intended meaning was unclear. Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing?

Yep.
Copernicus pretty much nailed it.
Tom

 

[barbos]

It clearly did.

Perhaps it would not have gone over their heads if your comment about the app were clarified. You said that Putin would "probably not" be in favor of an app that was developed exclusively by Russians and with Russian money alone. You continued with a statement that the app would be like giving water and food to people standing in line to vote. Then you said that voting should be as hard and "dumb" as possible. That is, you seemed to want people to have barriers to voting, especially to voting for more than one real candidate. The simplest way to accomplish that would be to have a dictator and no voting at all, but it would look even worse outside of Russia than it already does. So you ended up seeming to both agree and disagree with the idea that the app ought to be banned. Your intended meaning was unclear. Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing?

It went over your head too.

I referred to elections laws in some american states, not Russia.

 

[ZiprHead]

It clearly did.

Perhaps it would not have gone over their heads if your comment about the app were clarified. You said that Putin would "probably not" be in favor of an app that was developed exclusively by Russians and with Russian money alone. You continued with a statement that the app would be like giving water and food to people standing in line to vote. Then you said that voting should be as hard and "dumb" as possible. That is, you seemed to want people to have barriers to voting, especially to voting for more than one real candidate. The simplest way to accomplish that would be to have a dictator and no voting at all, but it would look even worse outside of Russia than it already does. So you ended up seeming to both agree and disagree with the idea that the app ought to be banned. Your intended meaning was unclear. Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing?

It went over your head too.

I referred to elections laws in some american states, not Russia.

So you are comparing wildly reviled election laws that most of the nation disagrees with to a nation that murders and jails opposition to the dictator leader?

 

[barbos]

It went over your head too.

I referred to elections laws in some american states, not Russia.

So you are comparing wildly reviled election laws that most of the nation disagrees with to a nation that murders and jails opposition to the dictator leader?

There are no laws in Russia which allows to murder and jail oppositions.
I compared this app banning with election suppression laws in US. And comparison is not in your favor.

 

[Copernicus]

It clearly did.

Perhaps it would not have gone over their heads if your comment about the app were clarified. You said that Putin would "probably not" be in favor of an app that was developed exclusively by Russians and with Russian money alone. You continued with a statement that the app would be like giving water and food to people standing in line to vote. Then you said that voting should be as hard and "dumb" as possible. That is, you seemed to want people to have barriers to voting, especially to voting for more than one real candidate. The simplest way to accomplish that would be to have a dictator and no voting at all, but it would look even worse outside of Russia than it already does. So you ended up seeming to both agree and disagree with the idea that the app ought to be banned. Your intended meaning was unclear. Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing?

It went over your head too.

I referred to elections laws in some american states, not Russia.

Really? You were answering a question about Putin. Everyone understood the reference to handing out water and food to people standing in a line to vote, but there was nothing there to explain how you expected readers to construe it. And then your claim that voting ought to be difficult and "dumb" came off as if you were endorsing the idea. Perhaps you intended some imagined context that would help people make sense of your comment, but you gave no clues. We can't read your mind, and you very clearly have not answered a simple direct question that I put to you. Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing? "Good" or "Bad" would be a helpful response, although most of us would probably like to hear a bit more about what you think on the subject.

 

[barbos]

It went over your head too.

I referred to elections laws in some american states, not Russia.

Really? You were answering a question about Putin. Everyone understood the reference to handing out water and food to people standing in a line to vote,

Maybe they understood it but could not connect it.

but there was nothing there to explain how you expected readers to construe it. And then your claim that voting ought to be difficult and "dumb" came off as if you were endorsing the idea.

Looks like you need a new sarcasm detector, old one is not working.

Perhaps you intended some imagined context that would help people make sense of your comment, but you gave no clues. We can't read your mind, and you very clearly have not answered a simple direct question that I put to you. Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing? "Good" or "Bad" would be a helpful response, although most of us would probably like to hear a bit more about what you think on the subject.

Good or bad will depend on a lot of things. You have an app which tell you who to vote for, and you don't know who is behind it.
Something tells me this app would have been banned in US much faster than Putin did.

So it's a little bit more complicated than what your propaganda tells you.

 

[Copernicus]

Maybe they understood it but could not connect it.

Nope. Guess again. All of us had the same problem trying to figure out how your reply to the question about Putin made sense.

but there was nothing there to explain how you expected readers to construe it. And then your claim that voting ought to be difficult and "dumb" came off as if you were endorsing the idea.

Looks like you need a new sarcasm detector, old one is not working.

It works just fine, but there needs to be something more in your responses to trigger it. If we were discussing this face to face, we would be able to tell by your expression or intonation that you were saying something sarcastically or tongue in cheek. However, when all we have to go on is text on a screen, it isn't always obvious when you are being sarcastic. Maybe you should use [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags to help us out. And I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically.

Perhaps you intended some imagined context that would help people make sense of your comment, but you gave no clues. We can't read your mind, and you very clearly have not answered a simple direct question that I put to you. Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing? "Good" or "Bad" would be a helpful response, although most of us would probably like to hear a bit more about what you think on the subject.

Good or bad will depend on a lot of things. You have an app which tell you who to vote for, and you don't know who is behind it.
Something tells me this app would have been banned in US much faster than Putin did.

Whatever tells you that is sadly misinformed, and you have to be pretty naïve to believe it. There are all kinds of apps, not to mention biased information sources, that do the same thing in our elections, and they are not banned. Any attempt by the government to do so would be struck down quickly by the courts. In Russia, the courts do not operate independently of the authoritarian regime, and the reporting media have largely fallen back into the habit of self-censorship. You don't have to fire, murder, and jail every journalist to get that effect, just a small number to get the idea across. The remaining news outlets that have been critical of the government are now in the process of being shut down. If Putin has shown us nothing else, it is that it really is possible to put the toothpaste back in the tube. All you need is a little patience and a lot of bootlickers.

So it's a little bit more complicated than what your propaganda tells you.

These issues are always more complicated than they appear in the media, so your condescension is pointless and silly. You know perfectly well that you are exposed to more state-controlled propaganda than we are, because your press is no longer as free as it used to be before Putin managed to intimidate it into self-censorship. It's a lot more complicated than what your propaganda tells you. Luckily for you, you have far more access to alternative information than most Russians do.

 

[barbos]

Whatever tells you that is sadly misinformed, and you have to be pretty naïve to believe it. There are all kinds of apps, not to mention biased information sources, that do the same thing in our elections, and they are not banned. Any attempt by the government to do so would be struck down quickly by the courts.

Name one.

In Russia, the courts do not operate independently of the authoritarian regime, and the reporting media have largely fallen back into the habit of self-censorship. You don't have to fire, murder, and jail every journalist to get that effect, just a small number to get the idea across.

It all could be true, but it does not change the fact that we have here an app which is clearly designed to manipulate voting.

The remaining news outlets that have been critical of the government are now in the process of being shut down. If Putin has shown us nothing else, it is that it really is possible to put the toothpaste back in the tube. All you need is a little patience and a lot of bootlickers.

So it's a little bit more complicated than what your propaganda tells you.

These issues are always more complicated than they appear in the media, so your condescension is pointless and silly. You know perfectly well that you are exposed to more state-controlled propaganda than we are,

Actually, not. I am more exposed to democratic propaganda from US than government propaganda from Russia. I don't watch russian TV at all (this is where 99% of propaganda is taking place). I already explained it to you. Why would I watch russian TV when there are better TV channels from your side? Not to mention youtube.

 

[KeepTalking]

It went over your head too.

I referred to elections laws in some american states, not Russia.

So you are comparing wildly reviled election laws that most of the nation disagrees with to a nation that murders and jails opposition to the dictator leader?

There are no laws in Russia which allows to murder and jail oppositions.

Right, Putin just does it anyway because he believes himself to be above the law (and, of course that belief has gone unchallenged by the government he runs).

I compared this app banning with election suppression laws in US. And comparison is not in your favor.

First, you did not such thing, you just threw out a non-sequitur meant as sarcasm, and expected everyone to catch the nod and wink that we could not see.

Next, the Georgia law you mention is one which few, if any, here agree with. It seems you do actually agree with the law and justification for its use in the case of the Russian app removal, so that is a comparison that is not in your favor. The Georgia law is also likely to be challenged legally, and I would be surprised if it survives the challenge (not all that surprised given the current SCOTUS makeup).

 

[KeepTalking]

Name one.

Vote Joe

It all could be true, but it does not change the fact that we have here an app which is clearly designed to manipulate voting.

Please state clearly how it was designed to manipulate voting.

 

[Copernicus]

Name one.

Keep Talking named just one, but you yourself can google "voting apps in US" to find a large number of others.

In Russia, the courts do not operate independently of the authoritarian regime, and the reporting media have largely fallen back into the habit of self-censorship. You don't have to fire, murder, and jail every journalist to get that effect, just a small number to get the idea across.

It all could be true, but it does not change the fact that we have here an app which is clearly designed to manipulate voting.

Really? How does the app change any votes at all? It's not like the practice of  carrousel voting that is sometimes used in Russian cities to manipulate vote totals. The problem is that Russians do not trust their own government to conduct fair elections, and the purpose of this app was only to serve as an independent check on election abuse by the government, which won't even allow credible opposition figures to run against Putin's regime.

...These issues are always more complicated than they appear in the media, so your condescension is pointless and silly. You know perfectly well that you are exposed to more state-controlled propaganda than we are,

Actually, not. I am more exposed to democratic propaganda from US than government propaganda from Russia. I don't watch russian TV at all (this is where 99% of propaganda is taking place). I already explained it to you. Why would I watch russian TV when there are better TV channels from your side? Not to mention youtube.

What the internet does for you is it allows you to filter out sources of information that you don't want to be exposed to. We can all watch Russian TV and just about any other source online, so your boast that you don't watch Russian TV is nonsense. You can and do watch Russian news on a computer screen, and you have sometimes cited it in the rare occasions here where you actually attempt to back up claims you've made. If you are tired of so-called "democratic propaganda" (Democratic party or just pro-democracy? You don't specify), then you can find lots of Republican anti-democracy and anti-Democrat propaganda to douse yourself with.

And you have so far dodged answering my question twice now: Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing? It looks like you have no intention of answering it, but that should come as no surprise to anyone. All you gave in response to it was a weak "Good or bad will depend on a lot of things." Then you quickly changed the subject to a whataboutism concerning American elections.

 

[barbos]

Name one.

Vote Joe

That's not a voting app.

It all could be true, but it does not change the fact that we have here an app which is clearly designed to manipulate voting.

Please state clearly how it was designed to manipulate voting.

That app in question is specifically designed to to defeat ruling party. It basically selects opposite candidates with "better" chance of defeating ruling party candidate and tells you to vote for them regardless of any other info, basically it tells you to vote for someone you know nothing about.

 

[barbos]

What the internet does for you is it allows you to filter out sources of information that you don't want to be exposed to. We can all watch Russian TV and just about any other source online, so your boast that you don't watch Russian TV is nonsense. You can and do watch Russian news on a computer screen, and you have sometimes cited it in the rare occasions here where you actually attempt to back up claims you've made. If you are tired of so-called "democratic propaganda" (Democratic party or just pro-democracy? You don't specify), then you can find lots of Republican anti-democracy and anti-Democrat propaganda to douse yourself with.

FoxNews is not officially aired in Russia or at least not free. There is CNN, BBC, japanese news in english and french in french and german in german.
Of course one can get all kind of satellite channels depending on your location. But the ones I listed have licences and distributed officially over optic cable.

And you have so far dodged answering my question twice now: Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing? It looks like you have no intention of answering it, but that should come as no surprise to anyone. All you gave in response to it was a weak "Good or bad will depend on a lot of things." Then you quickly changed the subject to a whataboutism concerning American elections.

I am not his press secretary and I don't have enough information about this app. All I can tell you it's small potato compared to lack of free press even if it turns out to be bad. So why do you bother with it?

 

[barbos]

Really? How does the app change any votes at all? It's not like the practice of  carrousel voting that is sometimes used in Russian cities to manipulate vote totals.

English version of the article is terrible (must have been written by Jen Psaki). It does not explain the algorithm and does not mention who invented it You need to read russian version of the article.