School Basketball Coach Suspended After His Team Drubbed Opponents 92-4

[Toni]

Most people would realize that.

No, Toni. No.

You and everyone who thinks like you accept that pronouncement. The people who had the exact same prejudiced impulse that you did think that.

But not everyone thinks like you, as much as you like to think so. You see, I can think of other reasons, plausible reasons, why the coach did what he did that do not include 'in order to embarrass the other team'.

You really need to learn to read more carefully. "Most people" is not everyone.

You really need to learn to read more carefully. "Most people" is most people. I did not say 'everyone'.

Toni, and apparently also yourself, think that your opinions are majority opinions, even as you ensconce yourself in a straitjacketed coterie of people who already think exactly like you do.

Cool dodge.

 

[Metaphor]

I am sorry that you do not understand or differentiate the differences between individual competitions such as track events compared with team events such as basketball.

In a race, there is almost always only one winner. But there is a second and a third place as well as a fourth and so on. Running races is individuals competing as individuals, with individual points according to placement accruing to each team per event and then totaled together with all of the events. Virtually no female one on earth--and not that many males would have felt bad at coming in second to Florence Griffith Joyner in her prime, even if she lapped them several times.

In basketball, team effort counts to help the person scoring to score points and to keep the other team from scoring. Yes, individual stats are kept but they don't matter at all to the team's final score and are not positively correlated with how well the team performed. The win is to the team.

I am sorry that you do not understand you've made a distinction without a moral difference.

 

[Toni]

I am sorry that you do not understand or differentiate the differences between individual competitions such as track events compared with team events such as basketball.

In a race, there is almost always only one winner. But there is a second and a third place as well as a fourth and so on. Running races is individuals competing as individuals, with individual points according to placement accruing to each team per event and then totaled together with all of the events. Virtually no female one on earth--and not that many males would have felt bad at coming in second to Florence Griffith Joyner in her prime, even if she lapped them several times.

In basketball, team effort counts to help the person scoring to score points and to keep the other team from scoring. Yes, individual stats are kept but they don't matter at all to the team's final score and are not positively correlated with how well the team performed. The win is to the team.

I am sorry that you do not understand you've made a distinction without a moral difference.

I'm sorry you do not understand.

 

[laughing dog]

Most people would realize that.

No, Toni. No.

You and everyone who thinks like you accept that pronouncement. The people who had the exact same prejudiced impulse that you did think that.

But not everyone thinks like you, as much as you like to think so. You see, I can think of other reasons, plausible reasons, why the coach did what he did that do not include 'in order to embarrass the other team'.

You really need to learn to read more carefully. "Most people" is not everyone.

You really need to learn to read more carefully. "Most people" is most people. I did not say 'everyone'.

You said "not everyone thinks like you" which does not rebut "most people". So either your reply was truly pointless (a real possibility given your posting history) or you were sloppy (also a real possibility).

Toni, and apparently also yourself, think that your opinions are majority opinions, even as you ensconce yourself in a straitjacketed coterie of people who already think exactly like you do.

Unsurprisingly, another straw man. But then, that is you doing you.

 

[Jarhyn]

So, I will point out that most people think walking up to people in the street and insulting them is wrong. Not everyone, but most people.

Most people think walking up to a random person in the street and tossing a glass of water on them is wrong. Not everyone, but most people.

Most people think that cutting off someone in traffic is wrong. Not everyone but most people.

Most people think leaving shopping carts in the middle of the parking lot is wrong. Not everyone but most people.

I can categorically say that not everyone feels an obligation to be a good neighbor, either.

When people are being bad neighbors, and do so in protracted ways, we bring consequences against them, usually designed or in the hopes of them being less bad of neighbors now and in the future.

 

[laughing dog]

Are the runners who increased their margin assholes?

Not necessarily.

No. I said playing to your utmost will result in higher points.

No, you said it scoring the most possible points is doing your utmost.

Your defense of assholish behavior is coherent and completely unsurprising.

I will point out again I did not even defend the coach or the behaviour.

Okay, is Sacred Heart's running up the score to a differential of 88 points appropriate?

But your concession that acting like an asshole is indeed a morally undesirable behaviour is noted.

I didn't say that. My goodness, are you capable of actually understanding what people actually write? Acting like an asshole may be morally undesirable behavior.

 

[Metaphor]

You said "not everyone thinks like you" which does not rebut "most people". So either your reply was truly pointless (a real possibility given your posting history) or you were sloppy (also a real possibility).

I was neither. Toni quite casually makes claims she is in the majority ("most people"), when she means she is in the majority in her cossetted circle of friends. Not everyone thinks like Toni, and I doubt that most people think like Toni.

Unsurprisingly, another straw man. But then, that is you doing you.

It is not a straw man to say Toni described her opinion as a majority opinion (or rather, the majority view of 'decent people').

 

[Metaphor]

No, you said it scoring the most possible points is doing your utmost.

Doing your utmost leads to scoring more points.

Okay, is Sacred Heart's running up the score to a differential of 88 points appropriate?

It depends on events and conditions I do not know about.

I didn't say that. My goodness, are you capable of actually understanding what people actually write? Acting like an asshole may be morally undesirable behavior.

And in your words, is being a 'first class asshole' something morally desirable to be?

 

[laughing dog]

You said "not everyone thinks like you" which does not rebut "most people". So either your reply was truly pointless (a real possibility given your posting history) or you were sloppy (also a real possibility).

I was neither.

Sure Jan. Whatever makes you feel better.

Toni quite casually makes claims she is in the majority ("most people"), when she means she is in the majority in her cossetted circle of friends. Not everyone thinks like Toni, and I doubt that most people think like Toni.

It is quite possible Toni's "most people" refers to her observation of the world.

Unsurprisingly, another straw man. But then, that is you doing you.

It is not a straw man to say Toni described her opinion as a majority opinion (or rather, the majority view of 'decent people').

You did not say that originally. But hey, that is you doing you - denying reality.

 

[laughing dog]

No, you said it scoring the most possible points is doing your utmost.

Doing your utmost leads to scoring more points.

Since expecting a team to refrain from running up a score to an astronomical differential is not preventing them from scoring more points, what in the world have you been on about?

Okay, is Sacred Heart's running up the score to a differential of 88 points appropriate?

It depends on events and conditions I do not know about.

Terrible dodge. Under what events or conditions would it be acceptable.

I didn't say that. My goodness, are you capable of actually understanding what people actually write? Acting like an asshole may be morally undesirable behavior.

And in your words, is being a 'first class asshole' something morally desirable to be?

Sometimes it is.

 

[Metaphor]

It is quite possible Toni's "most people" refers to her observation of the world.

And somebody with the exact opposite opinion of Toni could say that 'most people' agree with them. It is not a useful observation to say 'most people I associate with have opinions similar to mine'.

You did not say that originally. But hey, that is you doing you - denying reality.

Toni made the claim that her opinion had weight because "the majority" of people in the thread agreed with her. Even if that were true, that is no more to the point than I'm sure most of Toni's friends would agree with her.

 

[laughing dog]

It is quite possible Toni's "most people" refers to her observation of the world.

And somebody with the exact opposite opinion of Toni could say that 'most people' agree with them. It is not a useful observation to say 'most people I associate with have opinions similar to mine'.

Since Toni did not say most people I associate with, what on earth are you talking about?

You did not say that originally. But hey, that is you doing you - denying reality.

Toni made the claim that her opinion had weight because "the majority" of people in the thread agreed with her. Even if that were true, that is no more to the point than I'm sure most of Toni's friends would agree with her.

I think she was pointing out her opinion was not an outlier.

 

[Toni]

It is quite possible Toni's "most people" refers to her observation of the world.

And somebody with the exact opposite opinion of Toni could say that 'most people' agree with them. It is not a useful observation to say 'most people I associate with have opinions similar to mine'.

You did not say that originally. But hey, that is you doing you - denying reality.

Toni made the claim that her opinion had weight because "the majority" of people in the thread agreed with her. Even if that were true, that is no more to the point than I'm sure most of Toni's friends would agree with her.

I made no such claim that my opinion had weight because a majority of people in the thread agreed with me.

I pointed out that most people posting in this thread agreed with me that the coach was in the wrong for running up the score of a high school basketball game.

You are the one bringing up morality. The rest of us are talking about fairness and sportsmanship.

 

[Metaphor]

Since Toni did not say most people I associate with, what on earth are you talking about?

Of course she didn't say it. That's the point. She deliberately implied a ubiquity to her opinions that is not supported by evidence.

 

[Metaphor]

I pointed out that most people posting in this thread agreed with me that the coach was in the wrong for running up the score of a high school basketball game.

So... what?

EDIT: I note your loaded language of 'running up' the score.

 

[Metaphor]

Terrible dodge. Under what events or conditions would it be acceptable.

Deliberately embarrassing and shaming the other team for solely in order to embarrass and shame them would probably not be acceptable under most circumstances.

Now, you think that is what must have happened, and I don't think it must have happened. I can think of other interpretations consistent with the evidence, like the coach and players were 'in the zone' and that energy carried on naturally throughout the game. Or the players wanted to win by as many points as possible in order to beat their own record. Or there is no cultural expectation to 'hold back' if you are winning (as apparently there is no such cultural expectation in individual sports). Or the coach thought it would be wrong to tell his players to deliberately hold back and that it would be a condescending display.

Your failure of imagination at the universe of possibilities is not validation of your opinion.

Sometimes it is.

Terrible dodge. When is it morally desirable to be a first class asshole?

 

[Gospel]

Nope - the goal of team sports is to win within the rules and spirit of the game which includes good sportsmanship.

You keep repeating the false premise that one wins by playing to your utmost and scoring as many points as possible for you to score.

Strange, I don't recall reading that in the basketball rule book large margins are unsportsmanlike conduct. Mind finding that anywhere from any school for any league?

 

[Jarhyn]

Nope - the goal of team sports is to win within the rules and spirit of the game which includes good sportsmanship.

You keep repeating the false premise that one wins by playing to your utmost and scoring as many points as possible for you to score.

Strange, I don't recall reading that in the basketball rule book large margins are unsportsmanlike conduct. Mind finding that anywhere from any school for any league?

Well, you won't find it for the same reason that you won't find anywhere in a book about how driving the same speed in the left lane of the highway as the guy in the right lane, but just far enough ahead to keep them out of your blind spot is a real asshole thing to do.

There's no law against "playing the game"

 

[Gospel]

Nope - the goal of team sports is to win within the rules and spirit of the game which includes good sportsmanship.

You keep repeating the false premise that one wins by playing to your utmost and scoring as many points as possible for you to score.

Strange, I don't recall reading that in the basketball rule book large margins are unsportsmanlike conduct. Mind finding that anywhere from any school for any league?

Well, you won't find it for the same reason that you won't find anywhere in a book about how driving the same speed in the left lane of the highway as the guy in the right lane, but just far enough ahead to keep them out of your blind spot is a real asshole thing to do.

There's no law against "playing the game"

Yet the coach was suspended & drivers doing what you described aren't ticketed for it.

 

[Gospel]

Learning how to lose gloriously is a lesson I'm happy to have learned. Can't tell you how many times I got 100% owned on the basketball court with no coach, school board, or referee, and still showed my appreciation to the assholes for a wild ride. I used to enjoy talking about those moments I figured out their weakness (though they simply changed up) and was able to use what I learned against people in other towns. Losing in so many incredibly bad ways made me impervious to all lessor losses and earned me above average status on the streets of Central Islip NY Wreck center after learning from the roughest and toughest and most skilled in the neighborhood. I used to go to towns like Smithtown, Hempstead & Amneiville to wreak havoc on the no so hood hood over there. Fun memories. I was playing against a gang named "The Legion of Doom" (stupid name) where rap artists like Keith Murray were a member (played against him as well). What these kids got isn't all that bad because I got my ass literally kicked (broken nose, a concussion here and there) a few times for not backing off the defense. All that and losing to boot.

I just really liked basketball until the Knicks made me kick the habit. I get it though, 92-4 is not a good look for high school games and sportsmanship. But what's there to do when they need that experience? As long as the winning team ain't breaking noses & being verbally abusive but are encouraging the other team to keep going and showing them respect for staying with it I see no foul.

Difference is, you stepped into a hard court on a hard street accepting that it was hard, so as to learn hard lessons.

That's not what this game was.

And those are all the lessons of competitive sports. High school sports build character not from holding hands and singing kumbaya but through team efforts win or lose, keep going and try to overcome challenges. If they lose against the best team playing their best they learn how to defeat teams that are not as good. Heck next time around their chances of beating the best team increase as they feed off the experience and grow. But to ask a team to hold back is doing nobody on the court favors.

I wonder what the players have to say about that game.

There is more to winning than the point spread.

Nobody is suggesting holding hands and singing campfire songs. People are saying Don’t be a jerk if you can help it. Patronizing the other team is awful just as running up a score unnecessarily.

Even in the pros, players and coaches and fans appreciate generous players.

How could you lead the response with "there is more to winning than the point spread" when your argument is about your issue with the point spread, and you're responding to a post that states there is more to the sport than winning?