How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And Putin does not fear democratic Ukraine.

Putin fears losing personal power. He doesn't have his iron curtain and his berlin wall anymore but still desires both. Some things have changed in the Gulag State but not enough, though too much for him. Democratic states are a personal threat to his present status and power. He's not much different than Stalin but the world has changed around him.

No need to repeat this garbage. I have heard you the first thousand times.

That's kinda what is going on between parties at the UN. But I wouldn't call it garbage. What are you trying to hide?

 

[barbos]

That's kinda what is going on between parties at the UN

I am actually glad it's happening. Putin&Co annoys me with their inability to express their stance. They need to say what they think more, instead of trying to copy US M.O.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I am actually glad it's happening. Putin&Co annoys me with their inability to express their stance. They need to say what they think more, instead of trying to copy US machinations.

When he invades, maybe the Putinator is going to head for Ukraine's western borders so he can keep people from fleeing his new Iron Curtain. It's pretty sad when you have to build walls around your glorious empire to keep people from escaping. That's a prison, not a country, a gulag on a national level. So I agree, what Putin and Co are trying to hide is that they wish to put in place another despotic government in Ukraine. It will never happen, at least not permanently. The solution is democratic freedoms for Russia. All Putin's problems will go away when he does this. He can go back to driving a cab and voting like people do in decent countries with basic freedoms.

 

[barbos]

I am actually glad it's happening. Putin&Co annoys me with their inability to express their stance. They need to say what they think more, instead of trying to copy US machinations.

When he invades, maybe the Putinator is going to head for Ukraine's western borders so he can keep people from fleeing his new Iron Curtain. It's pretty sad when you have to build walls around your glorious empire to keep people from escaping. That's a prison, not a country, a gulag on a national level. So I agree, what Putin and Co are trying to hide is that they wish to put in place another despotic government in Ukraine. It will never happen, at least not permanently. The solution is democratic freedoms for Russia. All Putin's problems will go away when he does this. He can go back to driving a cab and voting like people do in decent countries with basic freedoms.

Could you post something I have not heard million times before?

 

[Harry Bosch]

But it is Russia that is causing this conflict. The countries that border Russia want to join Nato because they are tired of being bullied by Russia.

No!
It's you. The whole damn point of all these videos is to show it's actually you.
The same way it was You who almost killed everyone during missile crisis.
It is you!

[SIGH] The vast majority of Ukrainians speak Russia. You have similar cultures. Some shared history. Why don't the Russians just talk to Ukraine? Figure out how you guys can work together in peace. Ukraine is right next to Russia! It's far to their advantage to have peaceful relations (and economic) with Russia than with the US. How much economic advantage can the US offer Ukraine compared to Russia? Ukraine and Russia have resource-based economies. You guys are going to be hurting when the world gets off oil and gas. And that day is coming. Why not come together and figure out how to diversify your economies to benefit you both?

NATO has never even tried to annex anyone. Joining it has always been by choice.

This is patently false. Montenegro was pretty much annexed, by supporting candidates which were pro-nato. Will of the people? to hell with it.
In reality it is true for all NATO new-comers. US runs around and support russo-phobes and shutdowns anyone who does not cooperate. That's what these people say themselves.

The rest of your neocon propaganda comments has been answered many many many times already. No need to answer it.

This is just false, false, false. The current Constitution of Montenegro was ratified and adopted by the Constitutional Parliament of Montenegro on 19 October 2007. The new Constitution defines Montenegro as a civic, democratic and environmentally friendly country with social justice, established by the sovereign rights of its government. Their government has robust turnover of government officials and respect for their minorities. The current president of the country was elected with 53% of the vote in 2018. In fact, Russia attempted a coup in 2017 to overthrow the popularly elected government with a military junta that would have reported to Putin. It failed. I appreciate the fact that you continue to take the hits in the thread and keep defending your points. However, your view that any country in eastern Europe that isn't a pro-Russian dictatorship is a puppet of the CIA is just patently absurd and delusional.

To add: in the most recent Montenegro election of 2018: the pro-democracy candidate Milo Djukanovic won 54% of the vote; the pro-Russian candidate was Mladen Bojanic with 33.2%. I'm sorry, but 54% beats 33%.

 

[barbos]

This is just false, false, false

No, this has been discussed before. NATO knew they can't get referendum so they did not try, instead they went through parliament and prime minister.
Of course in countries where polls are favorable they go for referendum.
It's all manipulation and money. You pay money for constant lies about Russia and to pro-NATO candidates until public opinion and government change in your favor. Propaganda 101.

Djukanovic won 54% of the vote

Yes he won, with amount of foreign meddling that would be hard to not win.
I mean Elstin won too. You think I am stupid and don't remember?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Putin is afraid. Democratic freedoms are his enemy because in a democracy his opponents have the same power. He's murdered people and terrorized his own citizenry. He'll have to face the consequences of these actions if he loses his dictatorial powers, along with his accomplices. I'm sure this has as much to do with his behavior as anything else.

He saw what happened in Belarus and sent in his thugs to restore order. He can't let that happen at home so he uses Ukraine as a diversion. Pretty clever actually but no one is taking the bait so he's going to have to go through with his threats. Long term he just digs himself a deeper hole but he's already in so deep that it doesn't matter. He has no other choice unless he wants to face the music, which he doesn't.

Despite barbos' claims he will invade Ukraine to some further degree because he has no other choice. The dog and pony show must go on to save his own neck.

 

[Harry Bosch]

This is just false, false, false

No, this has been discussed before. NATO knew they can't get referendum so they did not try, instead they went through parliament and prime minister.
Of course in countries where polls are favorable they go for referendum.
It's all manipulation and money. You pay money for constant lies about Russia and to pro-NATO candidates until public opinion and government change in your favor. Propaganda 101.

Djukanovic won 54% of the vote

Yes he won, with amount of foreign meddling that would be hard to not win.
I mean Elstin won too. You think I am stupid and don't remember?

Yikes. There is foreign meddling in every single democratic election in the world. Every single one. All countries just deal with it and nod to the winner (except for Trump of course). Why do so many Eastern European politicians who favor Russia lose in their popular elections? Just because of foreign meddling? Are you saying that the vaunted KGB is so weak that they can't sway even one election to their side?

 

[lpetrich]

The KGB disappeared with the Soviet Union, but its successors in Russia are the FSB and the SVR.

 

[barbos]

This is just false, false, false

No, this has been discussed before. NATO knew they can't get referendum so they did not try, instead they went through parliament and prime minister.
Of course in countries where polls are favorable they go for referendum.
It's all manipulation and money. You pay money for constant lies about Russia and to pro-NATO candidates until public opinion and government change in your favor. Propaganda 101.

Djukanovic won 54% of the vote

Yes he won, with amount of foreign meddling that would be hard to not win.
I mean Elstin won too. You think I am stupid and don't remember?

Yikes. There is foreign meddling in every single democratic election in the world. Every single one. All countries just deal with it and nod to the winner (except for Trump of course). Why do so many Eastern European politicians who favor Russia lose in their popular elections? Just because of foreign meddling? Are you saying that the vaunted KGB is so weak that they can't sway even one election to their side?

You don't know how much meddling US/Europe does, do you?
I told you already. US is actively promotes hatred of Russia. That's what recipients of all that money say themselves.


There is a 1bil population in the West and 140mil in Russia. And money and status comparison is much worse. Russia is a dead end if you are young politician in Eastern Europe and want to have a long career.

 

[Harry Bosch]

This is just false, false, false

No, this has been discussed before. NATO knew they can't get referendum so they did not try, instead they went through parliament and prime minister.
Of course in countries where polls are favorable they go for referendum.
It's all manipulation and money. You pay money for constant lies about Russia and to pro-NATO candidates until public opinion and government change in your favor. Propaganda 101.

Djukanovic won 54% of the vote

Yes he won, with amount of foreign meddling that would be hard to not win.
I mean Elstin won too. You think I am stupid and don't remember?

Yikes. There is foreign meddling in every single democratic election in the world. Every single one. All countries just deal with it and nod to the winner (except for Trump of course). Why do so many Eastern European politicians who favor Russia lose in their popular elections? Just because of foreign meddling? Are you saying that the vaunted KGB is so weak that they can't sway even one election to their side?

You don't know how much meddling US/Europe does, do you?
I told you already. US is actively promotes hatred of Russia. That's what recipients of all that money say themselves.


There is a 1bil population in the West and 140mil in Russia. And money and status comparison is much worse. Russia is a dead end if you are young politician in Eastern Europe and want to have a long career.

So, is it honestly your opinion that if there is any "meddling" in any Eastern European country, that Russia has the right to attempt a coup or flat out invade if the Russian backed candidate doesn't win?

 

[barbos]

So, is it honestly your opinion that if there is any "meddling" in any Eastern European country, that Russia has the right to attempt a coup or flat out invade if the Russian backed candidate doesn't win?

Where do you get this crap from?
I am explaining to you why your "Eastern Europe hates Russia" argument is garbage.
Of course they hate Russia if you pay them money to maintain "Russia is bad" narrative.
US supports motherfuckers as long as they promise to hate Russia. That's just a fact.
That's how the whole damn thing works.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

US supports motherfuckers as long as they promise to hate Russia. That's just a fact.
That's how the whole damn thing works.

Please be accurate. I don't know a single person that "hates Russia." I know a few blokes who hate Putin because he's no different than Stalin or Hitler, people that threatened their freedom in the past. It's interesting how your insecurity forces you to support and cling to an abusive guardian. Grow up.

 

[barbos]

US supports motherfuckers as long as they promise to hate Russia. That's just a fact.
That's how the whole damn thing works.

Please be accurate. I don't know a single person that "hates Russia." I know a few blokes who hate Putin because he's no different than Stalin or Hitler, people that threatened their freedom in the past. It's interesting how your insecurity forces you to support and cling to an abusive guardian. Grow up.

Same thing. You can't have one without other.
Again. That's just a fact. Saakashvili is a case in point.

 

[ZiprHead]

You don't know how much meddling US/Europe does, do you?
I told you already. US is actively promotes hatred of Russia. That's what recipients of all that money say themselves.

How about you explain that to us and give us citations instead of statements?

 

[Copernicus]

So, is it honestly your opinion that if there is any "meddling" in any Eastern European country, that Russia has the right to attempt a coup or flat out invade if the Russian backed candidate doesn't win?

Where do you get this crap from?
I am explaining to you why your "Eastern Europe hates Russia" argument is garbage.
Of course they hate Russia if you pay them money to maintain "Russia is bad" narrative.
US supports motherfuckers as long as they promise to hate Russia. That's just a fact.
That's how the whole damn thing works.

There is a lot of hatred towards Russia and Russians in Eastern Europe, but that has nothing to do with bribery. It has to do with those countries being occupied and controlled by the Russian-dominated Soviet Union for most of the 20th century. Popular uprisings were brutally suppressed, sometimes with Soviet troops. The resentment that those decades of occupation left behind is not going to simply go away, especially in the minds of older generations. The main reason that NATO "moved East" was because of it--people in those countries wishing to secure insurance against a return of Russian domination.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

There is a lot of hatred towards Russia and Russians in Eastern Europe, but that has nothing to do with bribery. It has to do with those countries being occupied and controlled by the Russian-dominated Soviet Union for most of the 20th century. Popular uprisings were brutally suppressed, sometimes with Soviet troops. The resentment that those decades of occupation left behind is not going to simply go away, especially in the minds of older generations. The main reason that NATO "moved East" was because of it--people in those countries wishing to secure insurance against a return of Russian domination.

Do you think that's being talked about? I doubt it. It certainly should be talked about to counter the bullshit coming from Russian leaders.

 

[barbos]

You don't know how much meddling US/Europe does, do you?
I told you already. US is actively promotes hatred of Russia. That's what recipients of all that money say themselves.

How about you explain that to us and give us citations instead of statements?

I already did, I could not find the link to the interview but she said it.
And why are you surprised? After US supported ISIS against Assad.

 

[ZiprHead]

Your failure to produce results is noted.

 

[barbos]

This is not the original interview but more recent one

Бурджанадзе: Антироссийский тренд в Грузии ввел в моду Саакашвили - Российская газета

Грузинский политик Нино Бурджанадзе о причинах политического брожения в Тбилиси

rg.ru

Их успех объясняется в том числе и тем, что в последние годы антироссийский тренд в Грузии был в моде. Саакашвили смог добиться этого в том числе при поддержке США, которые прямо финансируют такую деятельность, в том числе через многочисленные неправительственные организации, работающие в Грузии, через очень серьезные телеканалы, через две фракции в парламенте