DBT
Contributor
Mind/consciousness is an active process of the brain. Most likely a physical process...which was my point.
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A God without compelling evidence?
- Thread starter excreationist
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Mind/consciousness is an active process of the brain. Most likely a physical process...which was my point.
DBT
Contributor
From what I have read of Hoffman, based on the problems I have outlined, he does not have a sound foundation to support his proposition, therefore no case to argue. All of the evidence supports mind/consciousness being a physical activity of a brain.
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
Donald Hoffman is against an all-wise God and having an intelligent designer... so that's another thing I don't like....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbyRrFUncAw&feature=youtu.be&t=312
On the other hand he says:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbyRrFUncAw&feature=youtu.be&t=312
On the other hand he says:
That involves "mathematical models and psychophysical experiments"
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
"so going back to the hard problem of consciousness all of my colleagues have assumed physicalism that neural activity causes conscious experiences"
That makes me feel better.... from time to time I get attached to an unpopular newish idea....
DBT
Contributor
Consciousness is a hard problem. Just because we have no idea of how the brain generates consciousness does not mean there isn't ample evidence to support the proposition that the brain is responsible for generating consciousness.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Which means that consciousness is physical.
There are a lot of good articles out there on the subject. If we define consciousness as awareness it's not so mysterious. Much of the mystery of consciousness proceeds from our distinction between physical and mental. We keep trying to define a false distinction.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Is a tree conscious? Is it aware of it's surroundings? Does it react to stimuli?
Are our brains conscious when we are asleep? How do our brains know to rouse for that smoke detector alarm or for a cry coming from the crib if they are unconscious? How does a tree know to shed its leaves and go into winter dormancy? Is it really dormant? How dormant is it?
However we wish to define it, consciousness, as Sagan opined, is a matter of degree. As an organism with a brain I use a different mechanism to be "conscious" of my surroundings than does a tree or an ant or a mushroom. We're all doing the same thing with different tools.
Maybe the title of this thread has become "Consciousness without compelling evidence?" Or maybe "Non-materialism without compelling evidence?"
Are our brains conscious when we are asleep? How do our brains know to rouse for that smoke detector alarm or for a cry coming from the crib if they are unconscious? How does a tree know to shed its leaves and go into winter dormancy? Is it really dormant? How dormant is it?
However we wish to define it, consciousness, as Sagan opined, is a matter of degree. As an organism with a brain I use a different mechanism to be "conscious" of my surroundings than does a tree or an ant or a mushroom. We're all doing the same thing with different tools.
Maybe the title of this thread has become "Consciousness without compelling evidence?" Or maybe "Non-materialism without compelling evidence?"
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
abaddon
Veteran Member
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Ah, I'm surprised. Sometimes I get the impression from your posts that you believe brain activity either is consciousness or causes consciousness. Maybe you do in spite of Chalmer's stance. His stance is that there's only a correlation and that no causation can be demonstrated. Also he espouses panpsychism.
I lean a little towards panpsychism over property dualism, and I think substance dualism and emergentism ("brain generates consciousness") are the more hard-to-believe notions.
Yes, the video is well worth watching.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
The reason I prefer his delivery is because he doesn't make an argument for any one interpretation. He presents them all and says that we need more before we're going to get a scientific theory about consciousness. He does seem to lean toward consciousness being an informational phenomenon but I think he's only taking his best guess at that point.
Emotions are in fact information, as if the ancient brain is self stimulating. Our human penchant for consciousness seems all tied up in our emotions, and this is likely true for any organism.
He also talks about consciousness possibly being a fundamental force no different than any other physical force. I'd never heard that one before but it is certainly possible.
The science of consciousness is presently a lot like the science of the ether. What we basically discovered is that everything is a measure of spacetime, that there is no separate thing called spacetime. We use it in our conversations like it is something separate and different but that is only to facilitate communication, as are all our theories.
But science requires experimental proof, unlike religious claims.
Emotions are in fact information, as if the ancient brain is self stimulating. Our human penchant for consciousness seems all tied up in our emotions, and this is likely true for any organism.
He also talks about consciousness possibly being a fundamental force no different than any other physical force. I'd never heard that one before but it is certainly possible.
The science of consciousness is presently a lot like the science of the ether. What we basically discovered is that everything is a measure of spacetime, that there is no separate thing called spacetime. We use it in our conversations like it is something separate and different but that is only to facilitate communication, as are all our theories.
But science requires experimental proof, unlike religious claims.
DBT
Contributor
Physical intervention to brain activity alters consciousness in quite specific ways.
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
I think a better definition involves qualia - "Examples of qualia include the perceived sensation of pain of a headache, the taste of wine, as well as the redness of an evening sky"
If you use the word "awareness" then what about a thermostat... it is aware of the temperature in some sense.
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
Yeah it went off on a tangent... though the belief that consciousness is fundamental doesn't fit my simulation belief very well....
DBT
Contributor
It is evidence that it is the brain that generates mind and consciousness.
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
DBT
Contributor
There are many examples of the physical nature of consciousness.
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
From the Netflix show about the afterlife, "The Good Place", there is an omniscient and very powerful character called Janet... in the final episode she talks about how when she's with a particular guy she turned off her ability to know what time it is.... she said "I like not knowing". That's a bit like Alan Watts talking about gods wanting to lose awareness of their identity - and playing hide and seek... and having surprises...
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
It's about "hide and seek" with God.... this idea is in a lot of spiritual traditions....
e.g.
https://www.uua.org/worship/words/reading/5953.shtml
At this God appeared again and said, "I had so much fun! Weren't those good hiding places? Some of you found me, others weren't sure, and others are still looking. That's OK because the most important thing is just to play the game. Let's do it again! I'm sure I can think of some other good hiding places."
Learner
Veteran Member
However in your view of the universe at least...
You can see the handywork of the simulaton creator - giving you the idea.
You can see the handywork of the simulaton creator - giving you the idea.