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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 
 
 
barbos said:
zorq said:
It has been years now and Barbos has never given a legitimate excuse for Russia's ruthless and unprovoked attack on Ukraine. It's really sad that someone can cheer so happily for such unethical and depraved behavior. But I guess I have become used to talking to Russians and Christians over the years. My opinion of humanity used to be so optimistic. I am growing jaded as I learn just how willing people are to believe any lies that help them feel more comfortable with their life and choices.
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I have given the reasons millions of times. You are repeating falsehoods.
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You have given conspiracy theories with no evidence millions of times. You are irrationally paranoid and let your emotions dictate your beliefs, not evidence or reason.
 
barbos said:
zorq said:
You have given conspiracy theories with no evidence millions of times
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Right, if you don't like something and have no answer just call facts based arguments conspiracy theories.
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Consider this fact based argument:

>Fact: You have never once provided any evidence that Victoria Nuland did anything corrupt, illegal, or was at all involved in anything related to EuroMaidan.
>Fact: You still insist that she personally planned and executed the events that lead to the legal transition of power away from Yanukovich.
>Fact: This belief is irrational because it is not supported by anything other than your prejudice and paranoia. (Citation: This entire thread.)

>Opinion: Even if Nuland HAD planned and executed the events that lead to the legal transition of power away from Yanukovich, it still wouldn't justify Russia's depraved violence against Ukraine. Murder is very bad. And you are very bad for cheering for it.
 
zorq said:
>Fact: You have never once provided any evidence that Victoria Nuland did anything corrupt, illegal, or was at all involved in anything related to EuroMaidan.
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Says who? She funded nazi groups in Ukraine. She funded nazi groups in Georgia. Georgians themselves literally said that.
 
zorq said:
>Fact: You still insist that she personally planned and executed the events that lead to the legal transition of power away from Yanukovich.
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Why do you keep bringing her up?
She did all the shit I said she did. But she was not alone.

zorq said:
>Fact: This belief is irrational because it is not supported by anything other than your prejudice and paranoia. (Citation: This entire thread.)
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Utter BS. Georgians literally said that your motherfuckers literally said "Go to war with Russia, we will help you, you will die of course but we will help you" Georgians said, "No, thank you"
Your fucking motherfucking prostitutes in Europe fucking compete with each other in "Who can be most harrasing towards Russia" Olympics. And has been going on for decades and well documented.
Putin administration has been extremely negligent in that respect. They had been ignoring this shit until this war.
They should be mass prosecuting scum like Graham.
 
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When Yanukovych told Lithuanian president who was assigned to deal with Ukraine that EU agreement is utter shit which does nothing but assures his loss in the next elections, that cunt (former commie from USSR who lied about not being a member) said "So what?" implying that was the plan.
These people are absolute scum who would stop at nothing to enrich themselves with money from US corporations, who wanted Ukraine to get Russia.
None of these people care about Ukraine, they want Russia, they want to install their own people, split Russia into pieces and steal everything! They don't even hide it, it's in all their Think Tanks papers.
That was their master plan.
It's not about Ukraine, It's about Russia, and ultimately about China. You needed total subjugation of Russia in order to counter China. You lost Russia and Ukraine as well. Russia will take Ukraine and EU would have to accept it.
And this is all your doing.
 
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zorq said:
barbos said:
zorq said:
It has been years now and Barbos has never given a legitimate excuse for Russia's ruthless and unprovoked attack on Ukraine. It's really sad that someone can cheer so happily for such unethical and depraved behavior. But I guess I have become used to talking to Russians and Christians over the years. My opinion of humanity used to be so optimistic. I am growing jaded as I learn just how willing people are to believe any lies that help them feel more comfortable with their life and choices.
Click to expand...
I have given the reasons millions of times. You are repeating falsehoods.
Click to expand...
You have given conspiracy theories with no evidence millions of times. You are irrationally paranoid and let your emotions the Kremlin dictate your beliefs, not evidence or reason.
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FTFY
 
barbos said:
When Yanukovych told Lithuanian president who was assigned to deal with Ukraine that EU agreement is utter shit which does nothing but assures his loss in the next elections, that cunt (former commie from USSR who lied about not being a member) said "So what?" implying that was the plan.
These people are absolute scum who would stop at nothing to enrich themselves with money from US corporations, who wanted Ukraine to get Russia.
None of these people care about Ukraine, they want Russia, they want to install their own people, split Russia into pieces and steal everything! They don't even hide it, it's in all their Think Tanks papers.
That was their master plan.
It's not about Ukraine, It's about Russia, and ultimately about China. You needed total subjugation of Russia in order to counter China. You lost Russia and Ukraine as well. Russia will take Ukraine and EU would have to accept it.
And this is all your doing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, no conspiracy theories there. :rolleyes:
 
barbos said:
ZiprHead said:
And then they bomb the shit out of Moscow and Put Putin out of everybody's misery.
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No, they won't. I don't remember the last time Ukro ATACAMS were not shot down
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I very much doubt you know either the exact rockets fired or whether they were intercepted. That's not the sort of information that's going to be reasonably available. What's been happening in the war does show that sneaky beats high and fast--and note that all your systems are based on high and fast. The Storm Shadows get through--which means that if you actually were fighting NATO the Tomahawks would also.
 
barbos said:
American Patriot missile killed 10 people and injured few dozens in Odessa.
Cocaine Clown also known as Elensky lied it was russian missile, but then people showed photos of remnants of american Patriot missile.
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Finding Patriot debris doesn't prove it was a US missile. You could get Patriot debris from an unsuccessful intercept or from a successful intercept of another missile. It's not like a video game where destroyed things vanish.
 
Why Ukraine is resisting so hard:

1) From the start Russia intended some genocide:

united24media.com

Russia Compiled “Execution Lists” Targeting Ukrainian Teachers, Journalists, and Clergy Before the Invasion

Russia's pre-invasion strategy included plans for targeted killings of Ukrainians, as revealed by Ukraine's Defense Intelligence leader Kyrylo Budanov.
united24media.com united24media.com

2) And the reality of the occupation:

www.economist.com

Kremlin-occupied Ukraine is now a totalitarian hell

The Trump administration should remember Vladimir Putin’s dark vision
www.economist.com www.economist.com

Ukraine knows what you did last time and knows you intend to destroy them this time around. Their backs are to the wall, of course they fight.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
barbos said:
American Patriot missile killed 10 people and injured few dozens in Odessa.
Cocaine Clown also known as Elensky lied it was russian missile, but then people showed photos of remnants of american Patriot missile.
Click to expand...
Finding Patriot debris doesn't prove it was a US missile. You could get Patriot debris from an unsuccessful intercept or from a successful intercept of another missile. It's not like a video game where destroyed things vanish.
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It was patriot missile who killed civilians. Russian missile hit the target which was Gestapo office building.
 
ZiprHead said:
barbos said:
When Yanukovych told Lithuanian president who was assigned to deal with Ukraine that EU agreement is utter shit which does nothing but assures his loss in the next elections, that cunt (former commie from USSR who lied about not being a member) said "So what?" implying that was the plan.
These people are absolute scum who would stop at nothing to enrich themselves with money from US corporations, who wanted Ukraine to get Russia.
None of these people care about Ukraine, they want Russia, they want to install their own people, split Russia into pieces and steal everything! They don't even hide it, it's in all their Think Tanks papers.
That was their master plan.
It's not about Ukraine, It's about Russia, and ultimately about China. You needed total subjugation of Russia in order to counter China. You lost Russia and Ukraine as well. Russia will take Ukraine and EU would have to accept it.
And this is all your doing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, no conspiracy theories there. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Yep, all documented.
If you want conspiracy theories you need to look at RussiaGate.
Alfa Bank my ass.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Why Ukraine is resisting so hard:

1) From the start Russia intended some genocide:

united24media.com

Russia Compiled “Execution Lists” Targeting Ukrainian Teachers, Journalists, and Clergy Before the Invasion

Russia's pre-invasion strategy included plans for targeted killings of Ukrainians, as revealed by Ukraine's Defense Intelligence leader Kyrylo Budanov.
united24media.com united24media.com

2) And the reality of the occupation:

www.economist.com

Kremlin-occupied Ukraine is now a totalitarian hell

The Trump administration should remember Vladimir Putin’s dark vision
www.economist.com www.economist.com

Ukraine knows what you did last time and knows you intend to destroy them this time around. Their backs are to the wall, of course they fight.
Click to expand...
According to ukro-nazi terroritsts.
I mean Budanov? Seriously? Seriously?
Do you even have a brain?
What's next citing Ben Laden or Hitler as a trusted source?
 
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All traces of Ukraine are being expunged. Schools have switched to the Russian curriculum, and Russian youth and paramilitary organisations work in the territories. Repression combined with Russification aims to transform the social and political fabric of the territories, says Nikolay Petrov, the author of a new report for the German Institute for International and Security Affairs.
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You get what you pay for.
Nikolay Petrov, go fuck yourself you piece if nazi shit, I don't remember you writhing for German Institute for International and Security Affairs about you burning russian books and destroying statues of Pushkin, you piece of shit, fuck you!
 
There is no gestapo. There are no “ukro-nazis”
Barbos continues to tip his hand by resorting to childish name-calling when he has no supporting data.

If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts;
if you have the law on your side, pound the law;
if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table.

The juvenile name-calling is pounding the table. Telling us once again that barbos knows he has neither facts nor law on his side. He demonstrates it for all who were not already aware.
 
An interesting analysis of the Russian economy.



There are clear signs that Russian economy is headed toward a collapse. Resources are being used to the maximum. This means they will be increasingly expensive for enterprises, and not everyone will be able to afford them. Prices are increasing, and the Russian Central Bank cannot stop them. Last week, according to Rosstat, inflation rose again: up to 0.37% (a week earlier, it was 0.30%). To slow down price growth, it is necessary either to stop economic growth and budget expenditures (infusions in the military-industrial complex, etc.) or put up with inflation rates above the target, the Russian Academy of Sciences said.

Only certain industries are growing in Russia, primarily machinery. In other words, what the budget pays huge amounts of money for and what goes to be destroyed in Ukraine is on the rise. This means that the money poured into industry does not bring anything to the economy except for the figures that are pleasant to the ear of the authorities. But even this growth has already been exhausted, as next year, GDP will increase by only 0.5-1%, and the growth rates of investments and private consumption may go to zero.

The International Monetary Fund predicts that the Russian economy will slow down threefold, from 3.9% growth this year to 1.3% next year. This is three and a half times less than in developed countries and 5-6 times less than in China or India.

A total of 4,363 legal Russian entities were declared bankrupt in the first six months of 2024, which is 40% more than in the same period a year earlier. And this is with the declared economic growth of 4%. What will happen at the economic growth of 0.5%, as predicted by the Central Bank? Mass bankruptcies and the economy of the early 90s - lots of tanks, nothing to eat?

In 2025, Russians will face a new series of losses and bankruptcies. The reason is not only sanctions restrictions but also growing problems inside Russia.

Rusal, one of the world's largest aluminum producers, announced the start of production optimization - it will be reduced by 250 thousand tons in the first stage. The company explained the decision of optimization by "record prices for raw materials and high risks of a continued negative macroeconomic environment."

Major Russian mining and metals company Mechel announced the suspension of one of its enterprises - Olzherasskaya-Novaya mine in Mezhdurechensk. The reason is problems with the sales market.

Major Russian corporation PJSC Gazprom made a record net loss of $6.1 billion in 2023, becoming Russia's most unprofitable company for the first time in 25 years.

ALROSA (Russian group of diamond mining companies) reduced its revenue under Russian Accounting Standards (RAS) by 30% and net profit by 3 times in 9 months. The net loss amounted to 6.5 billion rubles ($62,7 million).

Baltika brewing company is among the top ten most unprofitable companies in Russia in 2024. In 2022, the company's revenue was about 100 billion rubles ($965 million). In 2023, the net loss was 28.1 billion rubles ($271,1 million). The option of filling the budget by nationalizing profitable private enterprises has failed.

PJSC KAMAZ's net loss for the first nine months of 2024 amounted to 3.8 billion rubles ($36,6 million) against a profit of 15.8 billion rubles ($152,4 million) for the same period last year, according to financial statements published on the company's website.

AvtoVAZ automobile manufacturing company is talking about possible bankruptcy and debts of over 100 billion rubles ($965 million). This is due to the increase of the Russian key rate.

Rosneft CEO Igor Sechin is going to classify data on Russian oil exports and the production volumes of Russian refineries ostensibly to protect Russia's national interests from "unfriendly actions" by the USA and other Western countries. In reality, it is to hide the crisis in this field.

Sanctions were imposed on Gazprombank, the major bank, and fifty other banks. Sanctions were also imposed against the Russian System for Transfer of Financial Messages (SPFS, sort of Russian analog of the international SWIFT messaging system).
Click to expand...

But don’t worry. Trump will fix it!
 
Rhea said:
There is no gestapo. There are no “ukro-nazis”
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US Congress disagrees.
Rhea said:
Barbos continues to tip his hand by resorting to childish name-calling when he has no supporting data.
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Democrats continue to tip their hands by resorting to childish name-calling when they have no supporting data.
Rhea said:
If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts;
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I AM pounding the facts.
Rhea said:
if you have the law on your side, pound the law;
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I AM pounding the laws. If law was not on my side, your side would not have come out with "Rules based order"
Rhea said:
if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table.

The juvenile name-calling is pounding the table. Telling us once again that barbos knows he has neither facts nor law on his side. He demonstrates it for all who were not already aware.
Click to expand...
Did you look in the mirror recently?
 
SLD said:
An interesting analysis of the Russian economy.



There are clear signs that Russian economy is headed toward a collapse. Resources are being used to the maximum. This means they will be increasingly expensive for enterprises, and not everyone will be able to afford them. Prices are increasing, and the Russian Central Bank cannot stop them. Last week, according to Rosstat, inflation rose again: up to 0.37% (a week earlier, it was 0.30%). To slow down price growth, it is necessary either to stop economic growth and budget expenditures (infusions in the military-industrial complex, etc.) or put up with inflation rates above the target, the Russian Academy of Sciences said.

Only certain industries are growing in Russia, primarily machinery. In other words, what the budget pays huge amounts of money for and what goes to be destroyed in Ukraine is on the rise. This means that the money poured into industry does not bring anything to the economy except for the figures that are pleasant to the ear of the authorities. But even this growth has already been exhausted, as next year, GDP will increase by only 0.5-1%, and the growth rates of investments and private consumption may go to zero.

The International Monetary Fund predicts that the Russian economy will slow down threefold, from 3.9% growth this year to 1.3% next year. This is three and a half times less than in developed countries and 5-6 times less than in China or India.

A total of 4,363 legal Russian entities were declared bankrupt in the first six months of 2024, which is 40% more than in the same period a year earlier. And this is with the declared economic growth of 4%. What will happen at the economic growth of 0.5%, as predicted by the Central Bank? Mass bankruptcies and the economy of the early 90s - lots of tanks, nothing to eat?

In 2025, Russians will face a new series of losses and bankruptcies. The reason is not only sanctions restrictions but also growing problems inside Russia.

Rusal, one of the world's largest aluminum producers, announced the start of production optimization - it will be reduced by 250 thousand tons in the first stage. The company explained the decision of optimization by "record prices for raw materials and high risks of a continued negative macroeconomic environment."

Major Russian mining and metals company Mechel announced the suspension of one of its enterprises - Olzherasskaya-Novaya mine in Mezhdurechensk. The reason is problems with the sales market.

Major Russian corporation PJSC Gazprom made a record net loss of $6.1 billion in 2023, becoming Russia's most unprofitable company for the first time in 25 years.

ALROSA (Russian group of diamond mining companies) reduced its revenue under Russian Accounting Standards (RAS) by 30% and net profit by 3 times in 9 months. The net loss amounted to 6.5 billion rubles ($62,7 million).

Baltika brewing company is among the top ten most unprofitable companies in Russia in 2024. In 2022, the company's revenue was about 100 billion rubles ($965 million). In 2023, the net loss was 28.1 billion rubles ($271,1 million). The option of filling the budget by nationalizing profitable private enterprises has failed.

PJSC KAMAZ's net loss for the first nine months of 2024 amounted to 3.8 billion rubles ($36,6 million) against a profit of 15.8 billion rubles ($152,4 million) for the same period last year, according to financial statements published on the company's website.

AvtoVAZ automobile manufacturing company is talking about possible bankruptcy and debts of over 100 billion rubles ($965 million). This is due to the increase of the Russian key rate.

Rosneft CEO Igor Sechin is going to classify data on Russian oil exports and the production volumes of Russian refineries ostensibly to protect Russia's national interests from "unfriendly actions" by the USA and other Western countries. In reality, it is to hide the crisis in this field.

Sanctions were imposed on Gazprombank, the major bank, and fifty other banks. Sanctions were also imposed against the Russian System for Transfer of Financial Messages (SPFS, sort of Russian analog of the international SWIFT messaging system).
Click to expand...

But don’t worry. Trump will fix it!
Click to expand...

You have been predicting collapse of Russian economy for 10 years.
And do you even realize what it tells to anyone with functioning brain?
It tells us that it was your plan. Attack Russia using Georgia, then Ukraine and have russian economy to collapse.
It was your plan. And I bet your piece of shit president could not even hide it from Putin. I bet he literally told Putin that if you don't do what we tell you to do we will attack you with economic sanctions.
Unfortunately for your degenerate government it did not work and they had to improvise with actual attacks. And even that did not work. You're screwed. You have very angry (I hope) Russia and Europe without any economic prospects,
 
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