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Mayor fined for failing to observe state sanctioned religious festival

My understanding is that he refused to display something he was supposed to display. Think of Kim Davis--refusing to issue marriage certificates to gays. This isn't an oops, this is an active refusal to do the job.
I don't know anything about the situation but what is in the article.
Maybe Canada has a law requiring Pride flags at certain times of year. If that's true then it bears some resemblance to the Kim Davis thing. Still weak connection since not seeing a flag on one particular building isn't similar to not being able to get government recognition of your marriage.

To me, this is more like the township officials putting up a Nativity scene on the steps of town hall in December. Or not. As much as I enjoy good Nativity scenes I don't want one on the steps of city hall. Private concerns can knock themselves out with such displays. But the government should not do it.
Tom
There is nothing wrong with including Nativity Scenes... just as long as Herbivore Dinosaurs are included with the Carnivores. The scene below simply isn't inclusive.

T+Rex+or+Nativity.jpg
 
In the first place, what was done to Kim Davis was inappropriate -- outside the military, refusal to do your job is a firing offense, not a criminal offense.
It is much more fundamental than that! Kim Davis was an elected Government official. She wasn't merely not "doing her job", she was imposing her religious beliefs as a Government official on the people she was supposed to be serving. And that is the issue with the case in Ontario, albeit not active, but passively refusing a lawful duty.
Yes, and for that she should have been fired. Not prosecuted.
She couldn't be "fired". She needed to be removed from office. Prosecuted? Cute, she was the elected Government Official who violated her oath to faithfully execute the law, but she is the victim because she was held accountable for her actions.
That was a misuse of the criminal justice system. When striking miners were jailed in the early days of the labor movement, that too was a misuse of the criminal justice system.
HAW! Lets string some copper wire around Debs and Gompers and keep saying the above and we'll get adequate green energy to power Terre Haute, Indiana.
Louisiana has defined the job of teacher to include displaying the Ten Commandments. Do you think that makes it appropriate for a teacher who refuses to "do his duty" to be fined $5000 as punishment for said refusal?
The Legislative Body can be wrong and violate Civil Right. The Executive Body can be wrong and violate Civil Rights.
Yes, and in Canada the Orwellian-named "Human Rights Tribunals" systematically violate the Civil Rights of humans in the name of made-up rights of groups. Groups are grammatical fictions. Grammatical fictions do not have rights.
That is so poorly expressed, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
 
In the first place, what was done to Kim Davis was inappropriate -- outside the military, refusal to do your job is a firing offense, not a criminal offense.
It is much more fundamental than that! Kim Davis was an elected Government official. She wasn't merely not "doing her job", she was imposing her religious beliefs as a Government official on the people she was supposed to be serving. And that is the issue with the case in Ontario, albeit not active, but passively refusing a lawful duty.
Yes, and for that she should have been fired. Not prosecuted.
She couldn't be "fired". She needed to be removed from office. Prosecuted? Cute, she was the elected Government Official who violated her oath to faithfully execute the law, but she is the victim because she was held accountable for her actions.
That was a misuse of the criminal justice system. When striking miners were jailed in the early days of the labor movement, that too was a misuse of the criminal justice system.
HAW! Lets string some copper wire around Debs and Gompers and keep saying the above and we'll get adequate green energy to power Terre Haute, Indiana.
Louisiana has defined the job of teacher to include displaying the Ten Commandments. Do you think that makes it appropriate for a teacher who refuses to "do his duty" to be fined $5000 as punishment for said refusal?
The Legislative Body can be wrong and violate Civil Right. The Executive Body can be wrong and violate Civil Rights.
Yes, and in Canada the Orwellian-named "Human Rights Tribunals" systematically violate the Civil Rights of humans in the name of made-up rights of groups. Groups are grammatical fictions. Grammatical fictions do not have rights.
That is so poorly expressed, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I get it. The bounds of such groups are mostly shifting and subjective, conveniently so for those wishing to change behaviors via litigation.
I don’t have any solutions but I do understand the complaint.
 
The pearl clutchers wringing their hands over the Canadian Gay Taliban strangely support DeSantis et al.
 
In the first place, what was done to Kim Davis was inappropriate -- outside the military, refusal to do your job is a firing offense, not a criminal offense.
It is much more fundamental than that! Kim Davis was an elected Government official. She wasn't merely not "doing her job", she was imposing her religious beliefs as a Government official on the people she was supposed to be serving. And that is the issue with the case in Ontario, albeit not active, but passively refusing a lawful duty.
Yes, and for that she should have been fired. Not prosecuted.
She couldn't be "fired". She needed to be removed from office.
You say that like it's a law of nature and not a policy choice. The governor of Florida has been firing local elected officials; I don't see why the governor of Kentucky couldn't. Plus there's no good reason for County Clerk to be an elective office in the first place rather than generic civil service -- it's not supposed to be a policy-making job.

Prosecuted? Cute, she was the elected Government Official who violated her oath to faithfully execute the law, but she is the victim because she was held accountable for her actions.
By that standard, a criminal who's convicted based on planted heroin, suppression of exculpatory evidence and a confession extracted by torture isn't a victim, just "held accountable" for his actions.

The Legislative Body can be wrong and violate Civil Right. The Executive Body can be wrong and violate Civil Rights.
Yes, and in Canada the Orwellian-named "Human Rights Tribunals" systematically violate the Civil Rights of humans in the name of made-up rights of groups. Groups are grammatical fictions. Grammatical fictions do not have rights.
That is so poorly expressed, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Sorry, for the benefit of the abstraction-challenged, I'll rephrase.

The "Alberta Human Rights Panel" ordered a Christian minister to pay $5000 and apologize for having written a letter to the editor of the Red Deer Advocate saying homosexual rights activists are immoral. The AHRP erred. Their order was a violation of the pastor's individual human right to free speech.
 
The pearl clutchers wringing their hands over the Canadian Gay Taliban ...
Wait, what? The Canadian Taliban are gay?!? As far as I can see, the doctrine that groups high on the progressive stack have a human right to not have progressives' opinions about them disagreed with is a doctrine not restricted to those of any sexual preference in particular, and I bet about 90% of the theocrats punishing dissent in Canada are straight.
 
So being gay is a religion,

Of course not.

It is the state sanctioned and sponsored month long religious celebration of pride and all that entails is the religion. The mayor of Emo has been sanctioned for being a heretic and not festooning city hall with the appropriate religious paraphernalia.

Marc Guehi and Crystal Palace will be formally reprimand by the FA after the star wrote ‘I love Jesus’ on his rainbow captain’s armband. The player and club had faced a charge, with FIFA and FA rules banning ‘any political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images’ on players' equipment, which includes armbands.

Daily Mail
The fundamental aspect of religion is beliefs taken on faith. What faith is involved here?
Same beliefs the other pushy religions take on faith:

Rights are conferred by us. Our ingroup has the right to run our outgroup's lives. Obeying our ideology is good; disobeying it is evil. Those who agree with us are good; dissidents are evil. Dissidents have a moral obligation to pay lip service to our ideology and keep their skepticism to themselves. Toleration of them is persecution of us. A wall of separation between our ideology and the state discriminates against us. Content-neutral laws treating them the same as us are unfair to us. Enforcing our ideology qualifies as proper use of criminal law.​

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. Why should anyone care whether an ideology's unsupported dogma is about gods? It does a progressive and a gay person no harm for a town to fly twenty Pride flags, or none -- it neither picks their pockets nor breaks their legs.
While I agree with what you're saying I don't see the relevance. How are you showing there is faith involved in this situation, other than in the mayor's refusal?
 
Religious? I see nothing religious here.

I see a mayor refusing to do his duty and punished for said refusal.
^ This.

Refusing to do your job as a public servant because it offends your personal and private beliefs is generally a bad plan; Just ask Kim Davis.

If you don't want to organise official ceremonies, celebrations, and comemmorations, don't run for mayor.
What job?

Maybe I missed something. Did the voters of the township hold a referendum on raising a queer flag over city hall? Did the officials refuse permission for a parade?

Calling militant queers a religion is stretching a point. But no, not putting up a flag is not a reason for fines and re-education. Based only on the information in the article, if I lived there I'd be inclined to put up a flag in my yard. A rainbow flag with a big black X spray painted across the middle.
Tom
My understanding is that he refused to display something he was supposed to display. Think of Kim Davis--refusing to issue marriage certificates to gays. This isn't an oops, this is an active refusal to do the job.
In the first place, what was done to Kim Davis was inappropriate -- outside the military, refusal to do your job is a firing offense, not a criminal offense. In the second place, governments acquire an obligation to issue marriage certificates even-handedly when they take it upon themselves to enact legal discrimination against unmarried people. How have governments acquired an obligation to single out subsets of their citizenry for special celebration? And in the third place, Louisiana has defined the job of teacher to include displaying the Ten Commandments. Do you think that makes it appropriate for a teacher who refuses to "do his duty" to be fined $5000 as punishment for said refusal?
Ordering the display of the 10 commandments clearly is unconstitutional and thus an illegal order and should be refused.

I don't recall what happened to Kim Davis to push it into criminal territory.
 
My understanding is that he refused to display something he was supposed to display. Think of Kim Davis--refusing to issue marriage certificates to gays. This isn't an oops, this is an active refusal to do the job.
I don't know anything about the situation but what is in the article.
Maybe Canada has a law requiring Pride flags at certain times of year. If that's true then it bears some resemblance to the Kim Davis thing. Still weak connection since not seeing a flag on one particular building isn't similar to not being able to get government recognition of your marriage.

To me, this is more like the township officials putting up a Nativity scene on the steps of town hall in December. Or not. As much as I enjoy good Nativity scenes I don't want one on the steps of city hall. Private concerns can knock themselves out with such displays. But the government should not do it.
Tom
I don't think the law requires pride flags at a certain time of the year per se, but rather that the decision was made to display them and the mayor refused.
 
My understanding is that he refused to display something he was supposed to display. Think of Kim Davis--refusing to issue marriage certificates to gays. This isn't an oops, this is an active refusal to do the job.
In the first place, what was done to Kim Davis was inappropriate -- outside the military, refusal to do your job is a firing offense, not a criminal offense. In the second place, governments acquire an obligation to issue marriage certificates even-handedly when they take it upon themselves to enact legal discrimination against unmarried people. How have governments acquired an obligation to single out subsets of their citizenry for special celebration? And in the third place, Louisiana has defined the job of teacher to include displaying the Ten Commandments. Do you think that makes it appropriate for a teacher who refuses to "do his duty" to be fined $5000 as punishment for said refusal?
Ordering the display of the 10 commandments clearly is unconstitutional and thus an illegal order and should be refused.

I don't recall what happened to Kim Davis to push it into criminal territory.
link

Lawyers cost money and damages. $100k for damages for one couple, $260k for legal fees. The issue there is that she keeps appealing, so attorneys need to continue defending the decision.

Of interest, she was found liable for damages to one couple, but not another.

Poor Christian Evangelical Davis... three time divorced Christian Evangelical.
 
In the first place, what was done to Kim Davis was inappropriate -- outside the military, refusal to do your job is a firing offense, not a criminal offense.
It is much more fundamental than that! Kim Davis was an elected Government official. She wasn't merely not "doing her job", she was imposing her religious beliefs as a Government official on the people she was supposed to be serving. And that is the issue with the case in Ontario, albeit not active, but passively refusing a lawful duty.
Yes, and for that she should have been fired. Not prosecuted.
She couldn't be "fired". She needed to be removed from office.
You say that like it's a law of nature and not a policy choice. The governor of Florida has been firing local elected officials; I don't see why the governor of Kentucky couldn't.
As far as I'm aware, she had to be impeached by the Legislature. That'd be state law, not law of nature.
Plus there's no good reason for County Clerk to be an elective office in the first place rather than generic civil service -- it's not supposed to be a policy-making job.
Not exactly certain how that is relevant. She'd go from an elected government official acting against the law to a hired elected government elected official acting against the law.
Prosecuted? Cute, she was the elected Government Official who violated her oath to faithfully execute the law, but she is the victim because she was held accountable for her actions.
By that standard, a criminal who's convicted based on planted heroin, suppression of exculpatory evidence and a confession extracted by torture isn't a victim, just "held accountable" for his actions.
Analogies don't work by simply alleging them. In fact, your analogy isn't even coherent. Davis was the Government and was persecuting two citizens based on her personal beliefs.
The Legislative Body can be wrong and violate Civil Right. The Executive Body can be wrong and violate Civil Rights.
Yes, and in Canada the Orwellian-named "Human Rights Tribunals" systematically violate the Civil Rights of humans in the name of made-up rights of groups. Groups are grammatical fictions. Grammatical fictions do not have rights.
That is so poorly expressed, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Sorry, for the benefit of the abstraction-challenged, I'll rephrase.

The "Alberta Human Rights Panel" ordered a Christian minister to pay $5000 and apologize for having written a letter to the editor of the Red Deer Advocate saying homosexual rights activists are immoral. The AHRP erred. Their order was a violation of the pastor's individual human right to free speech.
And the Canadian Supreme Court ruled as such. But I applaud the depth of your knowledge about Alberta Human Rights Panel decisions dating back 16 years ago.
 
The fundamental aspect of religion is beliefs taken on faith. What faith is involved here?
Same beliefs the other pushy religions take on faith:

Rights are conferred by us. Our ingroup has the right to run our outgroup's lives. Obeying our ideology is good; disobeying it is evil. Those who agree with us are good; dissidents are evil. Dissidents have a moral obligation to pay lip service to our ideology and keep their skepticism to themselves. Toleration of them is persecution of us. A wall of separation between our ideology and the state discriminates against us. Content-neutral laws treating them the same as us are unfair to us. Enforcing our ideology qualifies as proper use of criminal law.​

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. Why should anyone care whether an ideology's unsupported dogma is about gods? It does a progressive and a gay person no harm for a town to fly twenty Pride flags, or none -- it neither picks their pockets nor breaks their legs.
While I agree with what you're saying I don't see the relevance. How are you showing there is faith involved in this situation, other than in the mayor's refusal?
In the mayor's refusal?!? What faith is involved in that?!?

From the CTV news report I linked upthread:

...
Shortly after the vote, Mayor Harold McQuaker, who voted against the proclamation, said, “There’s no flag being flown for the other side of the coin…there’s no flags being flown for the straight people.”

The tribunal called McQuaker's comment "demeaning and disparaging" of the LGTBTQ2S+ community and constituted it as discrimination.
...​

Do you think "there’s no flags being flown for the straight people” was a faith-based claim, not a plain fact?!?

As for showing there's faith involved in the situation, do you think saying "there’s no flags being flown for the straight people” does in point of fact discriminate against gay people? Do you think saying "there’s no flags being flown for the straight people” does in point of fact demean and disparage "the LGTBTQ2S+ community"? Do you think L and G and T and the rest even are in point of fact one single community that's distinct from the community at large?

The tribunal believed those things with no factual basis for believing them. They believed it's discrimination because that's an article of progressive faith -- it's exactly the same faith-based conviction that leads progressives to believe applying identical admission criteria to black and Asian students discriminates against black students, and leads progressives to call people who oppose all racial discrimination "racists". It was in my list: "Content-neutral laws treating them the same as us are unfair to us." McQuaker treated singling out gays for special celebration the same as singling out straights for special celebration, and the tribunal believed gays being treated the same as straights was unfair to gays. They believed it on faith.
 
What the hell is a"straight people's flag"? So, if some event has a special flag, do you also expect them to fly flags for other events?
You don't understand that if some group is discriminated against for many decades or centuries, that it is not "fair and equal treatment" to claim that you don't discriminate against them anymore so everything is now okay and let's forget the past. BTW usually the discrimination actually does continue in other ways.
For instance, imagine if at the Nuremberg trials the Nazi defendants said, "we don't harm Jews or other groups anymore, so you have no case against us". Of course the reason they stopped doing harm is because they lost the war.

Also, many groups have special celebrations, often sponsored by their local government.
 
What the hell is a"straight people's flag"?
You don't know? How is it possible that you don't know?

The reason it's possible for you not to know what a "straight people's flag" is is that government flying "straight people's flags" isn't a thing. So how the heck is a government not flying flags for any sexual orientation at all supposed to be discriminatory? You appears to be trying to make a counterargument, but you're helping make my case.

So, if some event has a special flag, do you also expect them to fly flags for other events?
No. What's your point? There wasn't an "other event" celebrating Straight Month either, with or without a special flag. What McQuaker said about flags is equally true of celebratory events themselves. So how the heck is a government not celebrating any sexual orientation at all supposed to be discriminatory?

You don't understand that if some group is discriminated against for many decades or centuries, that it is not "fair and equal treatment" to claim that you don't discriminate against them anymore so everything is now okay and let's forget the past. BTW usually the discrimination actually does continue in other ways.
For instance, imagine if at the Nuremberg trials the Nazi defendants said, "we don't harm Jews or other groups anymore, so you have no case against us". Of course the reason they stopped doing harm is because they lost the war.
Before we get into what I do or don't understand, we need to clear something up: the "You" and the "you" in that paragraph don't appear to have the same referent. In this analogy of yours, who is the referent of "you"? Who is the Nazi-like defendant claiming that he or she doesn't discriminate against LGT... people anymore so everything is now okay? Whom is the sentence to celebrate Pride Month and fly a Pride flag the Nuremburg-like well-deserved punishment for previous acts of discrimination by?

Also, many groups have special celebrations, often sponsored by their local government.
Indeed so. If the Model Train Club is holding a special celebration, and asks the city to sponsor it and contribute, and the city council votes not to deploy taxpayer-supplied funds for that purpose, when is that grounds for progressives to infer that model train hobbyists are being discriminated against?
 
What the hell is a"straight people's flag"? So, if some event has a special flag, do you also expect them to fly flags for other events?
You don't understand that if some group is discriminated against for many decades or centuries, that it is not "fair and equal treatment" to claim that you don't discriminate against them anymore so everything is now okay and let's forget the past. BTW usually the discrimination actually does continue in other ways.
For instance, imagine if at the Nuremberg trials the Nazi defendants said, "we don't harm Jews or other groups anymore, so you have no case against us". Of course the reason they stopped doing harm is because they lost the war.

Also, many groups have special celebrations, often sponsored by their local government.
To be fair, I think the thing they were found responsible for was more along the lines of what they were/are: bigoted assholes who would, given the opportunity, return to causing harm; and who seek a path of action towards that opportunity.

It is just the most pertinent and prescient proof that they are probably still "Nazis" because they did the things such creatures do, and haven't undergone any processes confirmed to stop any such thing, effectively, from being a "Nazi".
 
... And in the third place, Louisiana has defined the job of teacher to include displaying the Ten Commandments. Do you think that makes it appropriate for a teacher who refuses to "do his duty" to be fined $5000 as punishment for said refusal?
Ordering the display of the 10 commandments clearly is unconstitutional and thus an illegal order and should be refused.
And having a constitutional prohibition against having an established religion is a good thing, yes? Don't you think fining a teacher for refusing to display the Ten Commandments would be inappropriate and oppressive and theocratic and reprehensible even in a country whose constitution permits it? I was making an ethical judgment, not a legal one.

(As far as legality goes, the Canadian constitution doesn't explicitly prohibit an established religion, but it does guarantee freedom of religion, and in case law, that has been held to disallow establishment of a state religion.)
 
While I agree with what you're saying I don't see the relevance. How are you showing there is faith involved in this situation, other than in the mayor's refusal?
In the mayor's refusal?!? What faith is involved in that?!?

From the CTV news report I linked upthread:

...​
Shortly after the vote, Mayor Harold McQuaker, who voted against the proclamation, said, “There’s no flag being flown for the other side of the coin…there’s no flags being flown for the straight people.”​
The tribunal called McQuaker's comment "demeaning and disparaging" of the LGTBTQ2S+ community and constituted it as discrimination.​
...​

Do you think "there’s no flags being flown for the straight people” was a faith-based claim, not a plain fact?!?

As for showing there's faith involved in the situation, do you think saying "there’s no flags being flown for the straight people” does in point of fact discriminate against gay people? Do you think saying "there’s no flags being flown for the straight people” does in point of fact demean and disparage "the LGTBTQ2S+ community"? Do you think L and G and T and the rest even are in point of fact one single community that's distinct from the community at large?

The tribunal believed those things with no factual basis for believing them. They believed it's discrimination because that's an article of progressive faith -- it's exactly the same faith-based conviction that leads progressives to believe applying identical admission criteria to black and Asian students discriminates against black students, and leads progressives to call people who oppose all racial discrimination "racists". It was in my list: "Content-neutral laws treating them the same as us are unfair to us." McQuaker treated singling out gays for special celebration the same as singling out straights for special celebration, and the tribunal believed gays being treated the same as straights was unfair to gays. They believed it on faith.
The status quo doesn't need to be told it's ok to be that way. And there's no celebration involved in flying a flag. It's just a "you're welcome". And in refusing to fly the flag the mayor is saying "you are not welcome."

There are cases where I consider it going into the realm of inequality but this is not one of them.
 
What the hell is a"straight people's flag"?
You don't know? How is it possible that you don't know?

The reason it's possible for you not to know what a "straight people's flag" is is that government flying "straight people's flags" isn't a thing.
Of course it is a thing. It is the national flag. Straight people were not being put in jail or discriminated against in the country because they were straight. It was their flag that was being flown in Ottawa and the provincial capitals.
 
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