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Mayor fined for failing to observe state sanctioned religious festival

 
 
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Bomb#20 said:
Spacetime Inhabitant said:
What the hell is a"straight people's flag"?
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You don't know? How is it possible that you don't know?

The reason it's possible for you not to know what a "straight people's flag" is is that government flying "straight people's flags" isn't a thing.
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Of course it is a thing. It is the national flag. Straight people were not being put in jail or discriminated against in the country because they were straight. It was their flag that was being flown in Ottawa and the provincial capitals.
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Nonsense.
Government flags represent everyone. The American flag represents everyone from Jimmy Carter to Jussie Smollett to me, whether anyone likes it or not. It's not a straight flag.
Tom
 
TomC said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Bomb#20 said:
Spacetime Inhabitant said:
What the hell is a"straight people's flag"?
Click to expand...
You don't know? How is it possible that you don't know?

The reason it's possible for you not to know what a "straight people's flag" is is that government flying "straight people's flags" isn't a thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is a thing. It is the national flag. Straight people were not being put in jail or discriminated against in the country because they were straight. It was their flag that was being flown in Ottawa and the provincial capitals.
Click to expand...
Nonsense.
Government flags represent everyone. The American flag represents everyone from Jimmy Carter to Jussie Smollett to me, whether anyone likes it or not. It's not a straight flag.
Tom
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The government flag is the flag of the status quo.
 
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TomC said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Bomb#20 said:
Spacetime Inhabitant said:
What the hell is a"straight people's flag"?
Click to expand...
You don't know? How is it possible that you don't know?

The reason it's possible for you not to know what a "straight people's flag" is is that government flying "straight people's flags" isn't a thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is a thing. It is the national flag. Straight people were not being put in jail or discriminated against in the country because they were straight. It was their flag that was being flown in Ottawa and the provincial capitals.
Click to expand...
Nonsense.
Government flags represent everyone.
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well, yeah, it was supposed to. But it wasn't.
 
TomC said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
We are talking about when it didn't.
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When was that, before I was born?
Since 1958 it has, for better or worse.

To be frank, better than the rainbow Gay Pride flag.
Tom
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Hey! You're getting out of line there, pal. You either support the Gay Pride flag like a good soldier or we'll take away your Gay Marriage license!:mad:
 
The official flag of a government can change even when the government remains the same.

Mississippi has changed its flag twice since the Civil War, once to prominently feature the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of white supremacism and pride, and more recently because most Mississippians nowadays don't want the flag of slavers and racists to represent them.

If you feel your government's flag represents you then you probably don't feel like flying a different one, and that's fine. But some groups have designed flags to represent them and sometimes communities fly those flags on special occasions. If a government official is being discriminatory when choosing which flags will be flown, then he or she really should be able to articulate a reason for their decision that conforms with the law of the land. It appears that guy in Canada didn't do that.
 
Speaking for myself
Arctish said:
If you feel your government's flag represents you then you probably don't feel like flying a different one, and that's fine.
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I don't feel like flying the American flag, so I don't. It does represent me though, because I am a native of this country. It's not a choice, I am an American.
Arctish said:
But some groups have designed flags to represent them and sometimes communities fly those flags on special occasions.
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Which is fine for the people who choose to do that. I don't care if it's a Christian theme, Cinco de Mayo, gay pride, MIA POW, whatever. Private folks can fly any flag that they want.

I'm a solid supporter of both Israel and Ukraine. But I would not support flying either of those flags over a USA government building.
Arctish said:
If a government official is being discriminatory when choosing which flags will be flown, then he or she really should be able to articulate a reason for their decision that conforms with the law of the land. It appears that guy in Canada didn't do that.
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I don't see where that happened. Did the mayor choose other nongovernmental flags to fly? Did he discriminate against the Pride flag, while flying similar flags?

Maybe so, that would change my opinion. But not much. I would still think that a government building shouldn't fly flags for private concerns. Private groups can go all out, no problem. I wouldn't have a problem with a hundred Pride flags in Emo. I would still have a problem with one flying over city hall.
Tom
 
The fascist onslaught continues;

Ontario Mayor Harold McQuaker, who refused to pay damages ordered against him by a human rights tribunal, has had the funds garnished from his bank account – despite his protest.
Borderland Pride posted to its Facebook group to celebrate that they garnished the mayor’s bank account.“Sure, sex is great, but have you ever garnished your mayor’s bank account after he publicly refused to comply with a Tribunal’s order to pay damages?” the group said In response to a GiveSendGo fundraiser, claiming that the mayor had his account garnished.
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News
 
TomC said:
Speaking for myself
Arctish said:
If you feel your government's flag represents you then you probably don't feel like flying a different one, and that's fine.
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I don't feel like flying the American flag, so I don't. It does represent me though, because I am a native of this country. It's not a choice, I am an American.
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Yeah, and the flag of the State of Mississippi that incorporated the Confederate battle flag represented Mississippians, even the ones who suffered under the racist, segregationist, while supremacist ideology it was designed to proudly proclaim. The new one represents Mississipians, too, and IMO does it better.
TomC said:
Arctish said:
But some groups have designed flags to represent them and sometimes communities fly those flags on special occasions.
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Which is fine for the people who choose to do that. I don't care if it's a Christian theme, Cinco de Mayo, gay pride, MIA POW, whatever. Private folks can fly any flag that they want.
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I agree.
TomC said:
I'm a solid supporter of both Israel and Ukraine. But I would not support flying either of those flags over a USA government building.
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I would not support the flying of any other nation's flag on our government buildings, so again, I agree with you.

TomC said:
Arctish said:
If a government official is being discriminatory when choosing which flags will be flown, then he or she really should be able to articulate a reason for their decision that conforms with the law of the land. It appears that guy in Canada didn't do that.
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I don't see where that happened. Did the mayor choose other nongovernmental flags to fly? Did he discriminate against the Pride flag, while flying similar flags?
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I can't find much about the history of flag flying in Emo, but this article has a few more details about the controversy. It appears a petition was circulated in the town, garnered 29 yea votes and zero nays, was presented to the town council, and was turned down. The petitioners felt the council had acted in bad faith out of homophobia and turned to the Human Rights Tribunal for redress. I don't know enough about Canadian law to say whether the tribunal ruled in accordance with it, but no one has been pointing to the law and saying they got it wrong.
 
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Loren Pechtel said:
Bomb#20 said:
...As for showing there's faith involved in the situation, do you think saying "there’s no flags being flown for the straight people” does in point of fact discriminate against gay people? Do you think saying "there’s no flags being flown for the straight people” does in point of fact demean and disparage "the LGTBTQ2S+ community"? Do you think L and G and T and the rest even are in point of fact one single community that's distinct from the community at large?

The tribunal believed those things with no factual basis for believing them. ... McQuaker treated singling out gays for special celebration the same as singling out straights for special celebration, and the tribunal believed gays being treated the same as straights was unfair to gays. They believed it on faith.
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The status quo doesn't need to be told it's ok to be that way. And there's no celebration involved in flying a flag.
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Uh huh.
winnipeg.ctvnews.ca

Northwestern Ontario community fined for refusing to celebrate Pride Month

An Ontario town and its mayor have been fined a total of $15,000 for refusing to celebrate Pride Month.
winnipeg.ctvnews.ca winnipeg.ctvnews.ca
Don't tell me it's not a celebration. Tell Canadian Television.

It's just a "you're welcome".
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Do you believe for a second that if Emo had counteroffered to just put up a sign saying "People of all races, creeds and sexual orientations are welcome here.", the "Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario" would have considered that an acceptable compromise?

And in refusing to fly the flag the mayor is saying "you are not welcome."
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I.e.,

He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who is not doing the Father's work of gathering up the flock may as well be scattering the flock. -- Matthew 12:30​

That's a very religious attitude for the HRTO and Borderland Pride to adopt. Nietzsche had a choice comment on that whole sentiment.

If someone dared to say now: "he who is not with me is against me", he would immediately have everyone against him. This thought does honor to our times.​

Our culture's taste for freethinking seems to have deteriorated since then.
 
Arctish said:
Yeah, and the flag of the State of Mississippi that incorporated the Confederate battle flag represented Mississippians,
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This makes an interesting comparison.
Suppose a town government got a petition signed by 29 people supporting flying the Confederate flag over city hall.
Do you think that they are obligated to fly it?

Personally, I don't. Not because I have a problem with the Confederacy, that is not why. I would object because I think that the government should not be flying flags for anybody's personal causes.
Tom
 
I found more information here.

I haven't cross-checked the reporting yet, but if it's true that the town had approved the request to declare Pride Month and fly a Pride flag in 2018 and again in 2019, then the vote in 2020 was against precedent. And if the reason the vote went the way it did had something to do with the mayor's remarks, that could be why the Tribunal ruled it was discriminatory.
 
Arctish said:
I found more information here.

I haven't cross-checked the reporting yet, but if it's true that the town had approved the request to declare Pride Month and fly a Pride flag in 2018 and again in 2019, then the vote in 2020 was against precedent. And if the reason the vote went the way it did had something to do with the mayor's remarks, that could be why the Tribunal ruled it was discriminatory.
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If some citizens of a town insisted on flying a Confederate flag over city hall would you agree that it should be flown?
Tom
 
TomC said:
Arctish said:
Yeah, and the flag of the State of Mississippi that incorporated the Confederate battle flag represented Mississippians,
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This makes an interesting comparison.
Suppose a town government got a petition signed by 29 people supporting flying the Confederate flag over city hall.
Do you think that they are obligated to fly it?
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Not necessarily. But if the town's been doing it for years then the council members who vote against doing it this year should articulate a good reason why it's not in the public interest to do it anymore.

Members of Congress of the State of South Carolina did that when they voted to no longer fly the Confederate battle flag on Statehouse grounds. The change was controversial but it wasn't discriminatory.

TomC said:
Personally, I don't. Not because I have a problem with the Confederacy, that is not why. I would object because I think that the government should not be flying flags for anybody's personal causes.
Tom
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Apparently, there was a proposal to change Emo's town ordinances to basically say the same thing but for some reason, the town council hadn't approved the change before they inadvertently opened a new front in the Culture Wars.
 
Arctish said:
Not necessarily. But if the town's been doing it for years then the council members who vote against doing it this year should articulate a good reason why it's not in the public interest to do it anymore.
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If a town has been flying the Confederate flag over city hall for a century, should they continue doing so?
Tom
 
TomC said:
Arctish said:
Not necessarily. But if the town's been doing it for years then the council members who vote against doing it this year should articulate a good reason why it's not in the public interest to do it anymore.
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If a town has been flying the Confederate flag over city hall for a century, should they continue doing so?
Tom
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If no one objects to it and there has been no change in local laws or ordinances, then they should keep doing it until people start objecting enough that they change their laws and ordinances.

There is a right way to step away from the role of flagbearer. What the town council in Emo did wasn't horrible, and I think the fines are excessive, but they did it wrong.

I'm not a fan of the Confederate battle flag, but I'm even less of a fan of government bodies that make rules up on the fly, and ignore simple requests from the public to do something non-controversial they've done for years.
 
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Arctish said:
If no one objects to it
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This is where we disagree. I am not okay with a town raising the Confederate flag over a government building, no matter what. You might be, but I am not.

Private concerns are free to do so. I'll keep my opinions to myself. But not the government. Then I won't.
Tom
 
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