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The Jewish Concept of a Messiah
- Thread starter SLD
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Jarhyn
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NR, we all know perfectly well about your religious predelictions. I very much dislike the preaching of messianic religion on a site for infidels.
From what I gathered of the OP, the point was not toake.stupid claims about who is or isn't a Messiah. I would assert yet again that Jesus has no place in this thread.
I would probably enjoy learning about the history of the Tzadik, documentation, timelines, general beliefs structures as they appeared in which eras, and perhaps claims made at different times made by different scholars according to earlier interpretations...
But all this Jesus talk tells me is that anything I hear from you will be twisted to confirm your own biases.
The whole reason I came here to post was because I'm dissatisfied with the fact that it's not actually discussing much of the history because you, NR, burst in and started preaching. Again.
Can someone for the love of fuck respond to this that isn't NR about... Something? Actual historic religion and religious history rather than shit that's been twisted to a "modern" interpretation?
From what I gathered of the OP, the point was not toake.stupid claims about who is or isn't a Messiah. I would assert yet again that Jesus has no place in this thread.
I would probably enjoy learning about the history of the Tzadik, documentation, timelines, general beliefs structures as they appeared in which eras, and perhaps claims made at different times made by different scholars according to earlier interpretations...
But all this Jesus talk tells me is that anything I hear from you will be twisted to confirm your own biases.
The whole reason I came here to post was because I'm dissatisfied with the fact that it's not actually discussing much of the history because you, NR, burst in and started preaching. Again.
Can someone for the love of fuck respond to this that isn't NR about... Something? Actual historic religion and religious history rather than shit that's been twisted to a "modern" interpretation?
DBT
Contributor
The suffering servant in Isaiah refers to Gods chosen people, not Jesus. Check the context.
DBT
Contributor
Jesus does not qualify regardless. What was expected of the promised Messiah was not met by Jesus....which is why orthodox Judaism rejects Jesus as their promised one.
TomC
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What makes you think you understand Jews better than I do?
Tom
Jarhyn
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Hey Tom, I expect you might actually understand quite a bit better than he does. Do you know any of the history of whatever the fuck NR is preaching about?
Like, this thread barely survived at all before it became a drag-out over whether Jesus is the "Messiah", and IDGAF about that. I want to know beliefs about what constitutes a Messiah, not beliefs about people who may or may not satisfy those beliefs, since those people tell me nothing about the belief itself.
DBT
Contributor
Being 'embraced as an important figure in the history of Judaism' is not the the same as believing that Jesus was the promised messiah or that he was the son of God or incarnation of God, Trinity theology, etc....
Yeah, there's is a lot wrong with Christian theology. However, it is all basically a distortion of rational Judaic thought. Jesus as Messiah, Son of God, Incarnation of God, trinity: all of these have a basis in Jewish thought. The heathen have distorted them almost beyond recognition, but Jewish scholars have laboured long and hard to provide a proper understanding that allows Christians to mature into Jews.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
As I understand it it some Jews see Jesus as one of many Jewish prophets.
Mohamed said Jesus was a prophet in the line of Abraham and that he himself was the last prohibit in the line. of Abraham. He refereed to Jews as the people of the book who had lost their way.
As always, given the scant words alleged by Jesus and n o knowledge who he may have been, people are free to interpret Jesus of the gospels as they please.
Constantine had to deal with violence among Christians on acentral issue, the divinity of Jesus.
Constantine convened the Council Of Nicene to work it out. The result was Nicene Creed, a loyalty oath to the new theology. This is what was passed down as Jesus through today. It has no connection to who an HJ may have been.
en.wikipedia.org
www.britannica.com
So NR, your version of Jesus that includes Marx is no better or worse than all the rest. Each version has its followers.
There is the liberal Jesus who loves everybody. There is the conservative vengeful Jesus who hates gays. There are the se secular Christians.
Mohamed said Jesus was a prophet in the line of Abraham and that he himself was the last prohibit in the line. of Abraham. He refereed to Jews as the people of the book who had lost their way.
As always, given the scant words alleged by Jesus and n o knowledge who he may have been, people are free to interpret Jesus of the gospels as they please.
Constantine had to deal with violence among Christians on acentral issue, the divinity of Jesus.
Constantine convened the Council Of Nicene to work it out. The result was Nicene Creed, a loyalty oath to the new theology. This is what was passed down as Jesus through today. It has no connection to who an HJ may have been.
Nicene Creed - Wikipedia
Nicene Creed | History & Text | Britannica
Nicene Creed, ecumenical Christian statement of faith. It is the only ecumenical creed because it is accepted as authoritative by the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and major Protestant churches. Learn more about the history and importance of the Nicene Creed.
www.britannica.com
So NR, your version of Jesus that includes Marx is no better or worse than all the rest. Each version has its followers.
There is the liberal Jesus who loves everybody. There is the conservative vengeful Jesus who hates gays. There are the se secular Christians.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
No every Jew. Some were okay with Rome, as evidenced by Paul and the gospels and early christian symbolism which rarely was a cross but instead an anchor and fish, something quite Roman.
And in the first century there was no distinction between Jew and Christian. Don't knw if the word christian was even around outside of chrestian. And there were lots of different Jewish christians and christian jews in succeeding centuries, as you say.
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steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
My point to NR and his ideology is Jews were never a monolithic 'pure' culture.
The OT is a disjointed collection of wrings written by different people at different times.
The OT is a disjointed collection of wrings written by different people at different times.