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The Brainwashing of Theists - Exihibit 1 - Abraham & the Crazy Guy

Elixir said:
Maybe publishers are turned off by an author whose every paragraph suggests that they may have been beaten with a Bible as a kid.
I dunno - just a thought.
I mean, this forum is virtually overflowing with atheists, agnostics, heretics and ex-members of various religions. But that’s not enough - we are all supposed to be running around with our hair on fire because some guy is still pissed about the fact that religions are perverse?
Yawn.
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I get that a lot - if you can't answer the post then turn it into a personal insult, "something is wrong with you"
Once that is done, more hate can be piled on leading to violence
You guys have lots and lots of practice at this
 
steve_bank said:
There are plenty of Christian shows on TV and radio every day. I sample them once in a while, especially on Sunday.

There is of course FOX News which echoes some of DLH's anti atheist rhetoric.

There are Christian publishers, they advertise on TV for authors. Christian fiction including scifi, music, and TV shows are big business.

DH has a lot of competition from Christian culture. There is a lot of money being made serving Christian culture.

DLH could stat a podcast.

'If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad will go to the mountain'.
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lol you can bet that MY post is not going to get into any Christian show, TV or newspaper
 
southernhybrid said:
What haunted me the most was being told if I didn't witness to my little Catholic friends, they would all spend eternity during in hell.
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That's the frightening part - the willingness to be Nazis - I will write about that too in another post
People set apart not based on morals, values but belief, religion
That is EXACTLY what happened to Jews under the Nazis
Who they were as people did not matter - all that mattered was that they were Jews
And these people are saying - all that matters is that you are not Christian
.
But there is a rational explanation to their frightening hate
As I have been beating the drum on this - Ancient people living under Kings, Dictators used them as a template for God
Hence all - Get down on our knees, beg, grovel, submit, blindly obey, sing his praises & hope he is pleased and reward us(Heaven)
It would be like living in Russia or North Korea today
And obviously, if you spoke against the "Dear Loving Master" you can expect some goons to show up at your door
.
That is what we are seeing here - but this is the 21st century! In free countries!
The only explanation I can think of is mass brainwashing!
 
The flip side of the theist market is the atheism market. Not as big as the theist market but still profitable.
 
NoHolyCows said:
Elixir said:
Maybe publishers are turned off by an author whose every paragraph suggests that they may have been beaten with a Bible as a kid.
I dunno - just a thought.
I mean, this forum is virtually overflowing with atheists, agnostics, heretics and ex-members of various religions. But that’s not enough - we are all supposed to be running around with our hair on fire because some guy is still pissed about the fact that religions are perverse?
Yawn.
Click to expand...

It’s an interesting point—there’s a difference between criticizing religion and coming across as personally consumed by resentment. Passionate critiques can be engaging, but if every argument is dripping with personal bitterness, it can alienate even those who agree.

That said, some people have had genuinely traumatic experiences with religion, and their anger is understandable. But does constant intensity help their message, or does it push people away? At what point does critique become counterproductive?

NHC
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Why does it have to be anger? We see today Trump pardoning certain people even though crimes have been committed by them
Is it ok if we ask why the difference in treatment?
We see rich guys, movie stars get a slap on the wrist for certain crimes, drug use for example, while ordinary black people committing the same crimes get years in jail
Is it ok to ask why?
Is that not what I am doing?
Why is someone a crazy guy for saying he wants to kill his family but change the name to Abraham and suddenly
the poster is attacked as having a grievance, is "angry" etc - basically resorting to personal insults
and not addressing the point of the post
.
And along with that question - i do provide a rational down-to-earth explanation
Abraham was a slave/servant - he viewed God as a Master to be obeyed blindly
Sort of like living in North Korea - parents have told on their children and vice versa causing the authorities to
round them up & dumped into concentration camps
Such questions and ideas make Theists uncomfortable - they are praying to a Putin, a Kim Jong Un!
And so "I must be angry, I have an agenda, I must have been hurt by this religion"
Turning it into a personal attack
All I am is a guy who is interested in psychology, sociology
Interested in the behavior of people - why do they do certain things & not other?
 
Ramaraksha said:
NoHolyCows said:
Elixir said:
Maybe publishers are turned off by an author whose every paragraph suggests that they may have been beaten with a Bible as a kid.
I dunno - just a thought.
I mean, this forum is virtually overflowing with atheists, agnostics, heretics and ex-members of various religions. But that’s not enough - we are all supposed to be running around with our hair on fire because some guy is still pissed about the fact that religions are perverse?
Yawn.
Click to expand...

It’s an interesting point—there’s a difference between criticizing religion and coming across as personally consumed by resentment. Passionate critiques can be engaging, but if every argument is dripping with personal bitterness, it can alienate even those who agree.

That said, some people have had genuinely traumatic experiences with religion, and their anger is understandable. But does constant intensity help their message, or does it push people away? At what point does critique become counterproductive?

NHC
Click to expand...
Why does it have to be anger? We see today Trump pardoning certain people even though crimes have been committed by them
Is it ok if we ask why the difference in treatment?
We see rich guys, movie stars get a slap on the wrist for certain crimes, drug use for example, while ordinary black people committing the same crimes get years in jail
Is it ok to ask why?
Is that not what I am doing?
Why is someone a crazy guy for saying he wants to kill his family but change the name to Abraham and suddenly
the poster is attacked as having a grievance, is "angry" etc - basically resorting to personal insults
and not addressing the point of the post
.
And along with that question - i do provide a rational down-to-earth explanation
Abraham was a slave/servant - he viewed God as a Master to be obeyed blindly
Sort of like living in North Korea - parents have told on their children and vice versa causing the authorities to
round them up & dumped into concentration camps
Such questions and ideas make Theists uncomfortable - they are praying to a Putin, a Kim Jong Un!
And so "I must be angry, I have an agenda, I must have been hurt by this religion"
Turning it into a personal attack
All I am is a guy who is interested in psychology, sociology
Interested in the behavior of people - why do they do certain things & not other?
Click to expand...
I don't think any of us disagree with your basic premises regarding politics or religion, and I don't think anyone here hates you. Some are just frustrated with the way you come across at times. It makes you seem like you have too much stress or anxiety. I use humor to cope with those things. It really helps. Music helps too.

The real problem is humans. Humans are a nasty, violent species. Humans can also be kind and loving. We evolved from the great apes, including the violent territorial chimps. Chimps can be loving, but they are also violent. If you've read any of primatologist Jane Goodall's works, you would learn about her own shock and disappointment when she discovered how violent chimps could be. It's very hard to change a species. Religion and politics are just ways that are often used to bring out good and bad behaviors. The more liberal versions of religion tend to concentrate on charity and social justice, while the more extreme, conservative versions concentrate on punishment, bigotry and hate, regardless if they realize it or not. Btw, you might get a kick out of learning that when Jane Goodall was asked, by Stephen Colbert, ( I think it was him ) who her favorite animal species was......she said, "Dogs". :giggle: :dog:
 
southernhybrid said:
I don't think any of us disagree with your basic premises regarding politics or religion, and I don't think anyone here hates you. Some are just frustrated with the way you come across at times. It makes you seem like you have too much stress or anxiety. I use humor to cope with those things. It really helps. Music helps too.

The real problem is humans. Humans are a nasty, violent species. Humans can also be kind and loving. We evolved from the great apes, including the violent territorial chimps. Chimps can be loving, but they are also violent. If you've read any of primatologist Jane Goodall's works, you would learn about her own shock and disappointment when she discovered how violent chimps could be. It's very hard to change a species. Religion and politics are just ways that are often used to bring out good and bad behaviors. The more liberal versions of religion tend to concentrate on charity and social justice, while the more extreme, conservative versions concentrate on punishment, bigotry and hate, regardless if they realize it or not. Btw, you might get a kick out of learning that when Jane Goodall was asked, by Stephen Colbert, ( I think it was him ) who her favorite animal species was......she said, "Dogs". :giggle: :dog:
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So far no answers to my post from theists as to why a guy is crazy when he talks of killing his family but Abraham should be admired
And when all i get are personal insults then i know they have lost - as they say, "personal attacks are for losers"
.
I like what you wrote but shouldn't there be articles asking why Abraham is being treated differently?
What happened to our morals, values?
This is not about religion but about human behavior - all this big talk on morals, ethics and we lose them so easily?
I am sure you have heard of Stanley Milgram - a sociologist who showed the dark side of humanity
His research is very eye-opening - it says we are not that moral after all
 
Ramaraksha said:
So far no answers to my post from theists as to why a guy is crazy when he talks of killing his family but Abraham should be admired
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Does someone have to be a theist to be able to come up with (or simply look up) a relatively sensible understanding about the story?! No! But see here anyhow:
... God would use the opportunity to teach humankind, once and for all, that human sacrifice, child sacrifice, is not acceptable. This is precisely how the sages of the Talmud (Taanit 4a) understood ...
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Oh, and then you might consider how the Jesus story extends the above notion. And consider Muhammad with regards to prohibiting the abandonment of female infants in the desert. Not to mention the Mughals with regards to sati. Or even later those British imperialists and their own (presumably or allegedly Christian-based) distaste for sati.
 
Ramaraksha said:
If you were out on the street and come across a crazy guy brandishing a huge knife and screaming that God told him to kill his family
you would be calling the cops to come lock him up!
But tell Theists that that guy's name is Abraham and they will sing his praises & might even give him a gun to make the job "easier" That's all it takes it seems - a simple change in word, a name - from Crazy Guy to Abraham - seems to mess up our brains, morals, principles
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I didn't want to be arguing the same thing on every thread you post an OP but I'll answer this post for you.

If a person identifies himself as a theist, and he attempts to murder someone on the street. Another person nearby also identifies himself as a theist, has himself the means to intervene and stop the attacker

In your mind are you suggesting the theist who has the means to stop the attacker is going to let the other theist harm the targeted person...all because of Abraham?

Love to hear your answer.

Ramaraksha said:
.
Had the pleasure of reading a book written by two PROFESSORS from Brown University (well, that explains their work)
singing praises of Abraham for Obeying God!
What if God has asked Abraham to go rape a young child? Would he not have done it? He was prepared to kill his OWN child!
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Creating your own metric for Gods morality, made to suit your specific depiction of an alternative god to the biblical God is a flawed disingenuous campaign. No theist is ever commanded to kill or r*pe their own child. They would oppose it strongly.

Ramaraksha said:
And would these two professors had sung his praises? It seems they would have - nothing surprises me as to how low theists can go
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If that god was Molech or Baal, which suits your depiction, sure. then sacrifice and torturing children as worshippers would have been the order of the day.

Why do you think laws like the 10 commandments were made for the Hebrews in that region? To stop them doing the very same practises that all those other nations were doing!
 
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southernhybrid said:
The Abraham story is just a silly myth about the invisible diety testing his subject's faith and trust in him.
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I think it's a little more complicated than that.

Back then, one curried favor from the divine by making sacrifices. Child sacrifice happened a lot. Abraham had no more valuable sacrifice than his son.

But he didn't go through with it. Apparently, Abraham told God to fuck off or God told him nevermind or whatever.

Bottom line was that Abrahamic culture was a little different from the norm. In a good way, for once.
Tom
 
Ramaraksha said:
If you were out on the street and come across a crazy guy brandishing a huge knife and screaming that God told him to kill his family
you would be calling the cops to come lock him up!
Click to expand...

And rightfully so since God doesn't tell anyone to do anything outside of a relatively few isolated cases in a relatively small area. It's noteworthy to add that if a man is doing the same only after your family, he's a soldier. It's all a matter of perspective.

Ramaraksha said:
But tell Theists that that guy's name is Abraham and they will sing his praises & might even give him a gun to make the job "easier"
That's all it takes it seems - a simple change in word, a name - from Crazy Guy to Abraham - seems to mess up our brains, morals, principles

Had the pleasure of reading a book written by two PROFESSORS from Brown University (well, that explains their work)
singing praises of Abraham for Obeying God!
What if God has asked Abraham to go rape a young child? Would he not have done it? He was prepared to kill his OWN child!
And would these two professors had sung his praises? It seems they would have - nothing surprises me as to how low theists can go
Click to expand...

This simple post surprised me. I think it sums up my loathing for ideology, which is always stupid. People don't understand or care enough to pay attention to what is going on in the case of Abraham.
 
Ok DLH

How is it you are not promoting an ideology?

I loath Trump, sexual predators that prey on kids, drug dealers, and hypocrites who promote moral ideologies based on an ancient long outdated set of disjointed incoherent writings.

Moral ideologies from an old text that mandates punishments that today we consider barbaric.

Paraphrasing, in the gospels Jesus said pray in private instead of wearing your faith on your sleeves for show as the hypocrites do.

The gospel Jesus call;ed out the legalistic academics saying do as they say not as they do.

The major problem with so called bible believers is they rarely seem to actually live in accordance with the bible and 'what god says'.

Yet they loudly proclaim the bible and its so called moral authority.

Based on what is in the bile the ancient Jews were far from moral any modern standards, and certainly not any of the ancient cultures. The aqncient Jews in how they ilved and acted was not much differnt than anyone else.
 
steve_bank said:
Yet they loudly proclaim the bible and its so called moral authority.
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It's part of "magic book syndrome". Loudly repeating the Written Words confers a Holy Spirit upon one, enabling them to see clearly the glory of God, as those Words were given by God to be ours because God is good. Reading the Words in the magic book confers truth upon whomsoever might do so. How else to do God's work, than to take instruction directly from The Creator?
 
steve_bank said:
Ok DLH

How is it you are not promoting an ideology?
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George Orwell said all art is propaganda and Picasso said art is the lie that allows us see truth. Everyone is promoting an ideology and there isn't anything wrong with that. One of the most important things you can be is fair. To be fair you have to be honest. Ideologues take an idea and become fixated or obsessed with it to the point that honesty and fairness are either sacrificed or deliberately obscured for the idea.
 
Sorry, I screwed up the quote tags and misattributed the quote. I was addressing DLH.
 
DLH said:
steve_bank said:
Ok DLH

How is it you are not promoting an ideology?
Click to expand...

George Orwell said all art is propaganda and Picasso said art is the lie that allows us see truth. Everyone is promoting an ideology and there isn't anything wrong with that. One of the most important things you can be is fair. To be fair you have to be honest. Ideologues take an idea and become fixated or obsessed with it to the point that honesty and fairness are either sacrificed or deliberately obscured for the idea.
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Ok, now we are playing ping pong.

'Pop Eye The Sailor said 'I ams what I ams!'. He was a great American philosopher.

Hey this is fun.

Bite the bullet, look in the mirror, and face the horrible truth. Preaching a moral authority from a god based in a 2000+ year old writing of unknown authors is an ideology.

The question I always ask have for rigid religious bible ranting ideologues is do your live your life in accordance with the bible? Does i9t guide you in how you rlate to the world and people around you?

What principles derived from the bible do you apply in daily life?

What do you think Orwell would have said about your beliefs and posts?

Id say it is Animal Farm. The annals kick out the farmer, and end with system far worse than the farmer. That is religious ideology throughout history.

Animal Farm was about the Russian revolution. but it fits religion. Religious ideologues preach they will usher in a wonderful new world, yet invariably end up oppressive. A slave like devotion is mandatory.

You think you are unique and profound, but so do all Christian bible babblers.
 
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BTW, for washing somebody's brain I use a bleach-wtaer solution, it gets the stains out.
 
Michael S. Pearl said:
Ramaraksha said:
So far no answers to my post from theists as to why a guy is crazy when he talks of killing his family but Abraham should be admired
Click to expand...
Does someone have to be a theist to be able to come up with (or simply look up) a relatively sensible understanding about the story?! No! But see here anyhow:
... God would use the opportunity to teach humankind, once and for all, that human sacrifice, child sacrifice, is not acceptable. This is precisely how the sages of the Talmud (Taanit 4a) understood ...
Click to expand...
Oh, and then you might consider how the Jesus story extends the above notion. And consider Muhammad with regards to prohibiting the abandonment of female infants in the desert. Not to mention the Mughals with regards to sati. Or even later those British imperialists and their own (presumably or allegedly Christian-based) distaste for sati.
Click to expand...
IS NOT ACCEPTABLE? What? Abraham was going to comply! He was going to go ahead with the killing!
Next you will be telling me some guy who tells his kids that he is going to rape & kill them was imparting good lessons to them
.
As for the rest of your post - to me that is brainwashing 101
YOUR religion, you will blindly defend - killings, mass murders, rapes are ALL ok - you will find excuses for them
But OTHER religions? Ready and willing to point fingers at others!
The same rules apply - if you are going to go moral about other religions, then the same rules apply to you also
 
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