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I have a friend who says that nothing comes from nothing, ergo there must be an intelligent designer. Aside from this being just another angle on the god of the gaps argument in my opinion, (i.e. we don't know how it all began therefore god/intelligent designer), playing devil's advocate and...

Basically equivocation. Faith can mean trust, but religious faith - by definition - requires suspension of disbelief. Some may say that is weak and irrational.

Assumption rather than fact. There isn't necessarily any benefit. In my view it's result of mass psychosis - in the same way that millions of people can be convinced that staying locked in their homes and not being allowed to hug their grannies while governmental elites rape the economy. That...

If you decide to follow your own moral values instead of those prescribed by your religion, aren't you rejecting that religion?

Agreed of course. But the purpose of the thread was to get down to specifics - i.e. Christians' denial of the OT.

Most excellent post Ron, very powerful, thank you.

No, the other way around. Even Christians (at least the ones I talk to) agree that this kind of OT stuff is bizarre, so they get round the issue by saying that the OT was repudiated by Jesus (even though it wasn't) and is therefore not allowed to be brought to the debate. Yes this is what I...

I know it's pointless debating Christians but sometimes I just can't help myself. One issue I often come across is the denial of the Old Testament's relevance and veracity on the basis that the New Testament replaced it, thus with a wave of the hand avoiding having to explain the lunacy of the...

Presumably his extra one. The one that others don't have.

I'm sure the random internet dude would be quite happy if you showed him the duck that you see. Shouldn't be too difficult, should it? I mean, if you can see it, Mr Random Internet Dude should be able to see it too, right? In the same way that he can see trains, bacon sandwiches and kangaroos?

I don't know what world you live in but I hear it all the time. How could you possibly know what 'very few theists actually claim'?

They aren't specific to christian teaching, must people don't need a sky daddy to adhere to those principles. No, let's start with the run-of-the-mill christian stuff that Jesus said, like claiming that he was the messiah and the son of god.

Parental conditioning.

What I can't understand is why they do it in the first place. History shows repeatedly that when a goddidit explanation is inserted into a knowledge gap, that gap is closed by knowledge at some point, thus disproving the deity and discrediting its followers. So it is inevitable that current...

Correct, which is why the NTS fallacy does not apply here. Nothing is being made up, it's all written in black and white in the instruction manual.

Actually, if you're born in Scotland you're a true Scotsman, it's as simple as that. If you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ you're a christian.

Anybody following the teachings of Jesus is a christian. That is the very essence of being a christian. It would be difficult to define a christian in clearer terms. Not sure how a jew or muslim could follow his teachings though, they are in direct opposition to those two religions, since he...

Agreed, but that's not quite the same as 'following the teachings of Jesus' is it? The phrase implies a specific dedication to the entity in question. In this case, that would make you a christian.

1. Ok, but that doesn't invalidate the point. There is also a difference between assuming stuff you don't know, and making a simple error. 2. You are arguing that it is possible to follow the teachings of Jesus and not be a christian. The "teachings of Jesus" render that impossible, bearing in...

Doesn't your instruction manual make it clear that they are one and the same? I mean, the guy is known as Jesus Christ. It's like saying "I didn't vote for Trump, I voted for Donald".