Doesn't your instruction manual make it clear that they are one and the same? I mean, the guy is known as Jesus Christ. It's like saying "I didn't vote for Trump, I voted for Donald".
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Virgin birth of Jesus
- Thread starter Imnotspecial
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1. Dont assume stuff you dont know. I'm not religious at all so its not my "instruction manual".
2. What "the guy is known as" doesnt matter. His name is Jesus. Christ is a sort of title: its the greek word for Messiah. It denotes that he is the "chosen one". That he is a god that shall solve all problems and make everything right again.
1. Ok, but that doesn't invalidate the point. There is also a difference between assuming stuff you don't know, and making a simple error.
2. You are arguing that it is possible to follow the teachings of Jesus and not be a christian. The "teachings of Jesus" render that impossible, bearing in mind the claims that he made. Unless of course, you're only following some of the teachings of Jesus, which most people do to a greater or lesser extent, so there's nothing special about that.
If you dont believe that jesus is messiah (christ) then your are not a christian.
Both muslims and jews sees jesus as an important teacher, some even as a profet, but do not believe him to be Christ/Messiah.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
According to the Wikipedia article there exists two forms. The modern and the classical. Even though they have similarities they are quite different.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
Agreed, but that's not quite the same as 'following the teachings of Jesus' is it? The phrase implies a specific dedication to the entity in question. In this case, that would make you a christian.
So a jew or muslim that are following the teachings of jesus is a christian?
if you doesnt believe the bits about jesus being christ then you are not christian.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
What gives you the right to deny them the right calling themselves whatever they want? Fundamentally these are issues surrounding identity. These are important to people. But above all, they are NOT rational. Identity is about what you feel about yourself. It doesn't have to make sense.
identities arent just words. You dont identify yourself as a christian just by calling yourself christian. You are not an atheist if you believe in gods.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Tell that to transexuals and transvestites. I didn't say they were just words. But they do mean different things to different people.
Just yesterday I had a discussion with a woman who called herself "Patricia" and got very angry when people called her "Pat". To me it's two forms of the same name. To her, they weren't. You can argue either side but fundamentally it's going to land on irrational arguments from emotion. There's no wrong here. Or right. What ever you feel is what you are. Other people can feel you are something else. But they can't change how you feel about it, or how you should feel about it.
That post is totally beside the point. Wathever name she has chosen for herself, that name doesnt infer any other meaning.
Christianity isnt just a name.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
None of it makes any sense. All of the definitions of Christianity are based on nonsense. Even the definitions that have meaning today, trace it back to the beginning and it meant something else then. Each Christian term has meant different things in different ages and means different even within the Vulgate Bible. At no point was the Bible in any way coherent. And then add all the other Bibles. It's a mess.
In this mess, to try to make an argument about who really is the True Scotsman. Give me a break.
Whenever a Christian explains what they believe and what they are I just say "of course you are". And leave it at that.
Anybody following the teachings of Jesus is a christian. That is the very essence of being a christian. It would be difficult to define a christian in clearer terms. Not sure how a jew or muslim could follow his teachings though, they are in direct opposition to those two religions, since he claimed to be the messiah. Have you met any jews or muslims who follow the teachings of Jesus?
Yeah we have said that already, we agree on that. I am saying that if you don't believe the bits about Jesus being christ then you are not following his teachings. You can't just pick the bits you like. What excuse does anyone have for leaving out the part where he claims to be the messiah? How do they explain those bits? Was Jesus a raving lunatic? A liar? Misinformed? A scammer? A manipulator? If so, why follow his teachings in the first place?
Actually, if you're born in Scotland you're a true Scotsman, it's as simple as that. If you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ you're a christian.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
No, you're not. The whole point of the no True Scotsman argument is that you can make up any claim about the Scots and any counter evidence is just evidence that that guy isn't a True Scotsman. Which is exactly what you are doing regarding Christianity.
Correct, which is why the NTS fallacy does not apply here. Nothing is being made up, it's all written in black and white in the instruction manual.
ideologyhunter
Contributor
Following the teachings of Christ makes you Christian...then how many true Christians are there? How many follow the daft teachings about submitting to any and all requests for your stuff -- that if you find someone pilfering your stuff, you let them have it and never seek to have it back -- that you never try to plan for or worry about tomorrow -- that to be perfect, you sell all your stuff and give the money to the poor -- that you support every jot and tittle of the Mosaic law -- that you submit to physical assault and encourage more blows from your assailant...dispute some of these, but surely some of these are explicit teachings in the NT.
Everybody has always picked the bits they like.
The people creating picked the bits they liked. They where at least so honest to clearly stated in a entity for everyone to see. Most believer are silent of the bits they dont like.
You must also realize that the gospels isnt written by jesus. They are reinterpretations and more or less free fantasies.
Thus if you want to follow the teachings of jesus you HAVE to be critical of the text in the bible.
Of course you do.