• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

1+2+3+4+... = -1/12

AdamWho

Member
Joined
May 29, 2001
Messages
348
Claim: 1+2+3+4+...... = -1/12

This claim on the face of it is completely insane, there is no way you could add up an infinite number of positive integers and get a finite negative number. I encourage you to look up the Euler Riemann zeta function

****

The proof:

Start with a slightly easier claim

S1 = 1-1+1-1+1... = 1/2

Code:
S1  = 1-1+1-1+1...
1-S1 = 1-( 1-1+1-1+1...) = 1-1+1-1+1... = S1
1-S1 = S1
S1 = 1/2

Next we go to a slightly more unbelievable claim

S2 = 1-2+3-4+5.... = 1/4

Code:
S2+S2 = 1-2+3-4+5-6+7... 
         +1-2+3-4+5-6...

2*S2 = 1-1+1-1+1-1... = 1/2

S2 = 1/4

Now the sum of the natural numbers

S3 = 1+2+3+4+5+6.... = -1/12

Code:
S3-S2 = 1+2+3+4+5+6...
      -(1-2+3-4+5-6...)

S3-(1/4) = 4+8+12+16+.... = 4(1+2+3+4+...)

S3-(1/4) = 4*S3

-1/4 = 3*S3

S3 = -1/12

As unbelievable as this calculation seems it is used regularly in physics, specifically string theory.
 
Abel said:
Divergent series are the invention of the devil, and it is shameful to base on them any demonstration whatsoever.

However innocent it may seem, rearranging the terms of a series that isn't absolutely convergent is a big no-no. You could just has easily have gotten:

Code:
S3-S2 = 1+2+3+4+5+6...
      -(1-2+3-4+5-6...)

S3-(1/4) = (1 + 2 - 1) + (3 + 4 - (-2 + 3)) + (5 + 6 - (-4 + 5)) + ... = 2 + 6 + 10 + 14 + ... 
      = 2(1 + 3 + 5 + 7 + ...) = 2(1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... - (2 + 4 + 6 + ...)) = 2(S3 - 2S3) = -2S3

S3-(1/4) = -2*S3

-1/4 = -3*S3

S3 = +1/12

Now, of course, your conclusions are correct because there are rigorous approaches to extending summation from convergent sums to divergent sums that confirm the heuristic calculations, but it still pays to be extra careful when dealing with infinite sums.
 
S1 = 1-1+1-1+1...
1-S1 = 1-(1-1+1-1+1...) = 1-1+1-1+1... = S1
1-S1 = S1
S1 = ½


Back to the past threads on adding to and subtracting from infinities.

The calculus ofdealing with infinities is not the same as algebraic quantificationof a series for a finite number of terms.


I do not know much aboutString Theory and infinities, but I would say the above could be truein an axiomatic system dealing with infiniities.
 
The proof you quote (which I'm guessing you saw at http://www.numberphile.com/videos/analytical_continuation1.html since that video was discussed on a lot of sites) would not be considered valid by any mathematician, since as beero1000 said there are many different ways to "add" divergent infinite series that give different answers. For example, the proof manipulated the terms of S1 in such a way as to suggest a sum of 1/2, but one could just as easily say that S1 = 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ...
=(1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + ... = 0 + 0 + 0 + ... = 0.

The specific claim that the 1+2+3+4+... = -1/12 has nothing to do with adding up terms in series in this sort of ad hoc way, your own link on the Euler Riemann Zeta function explains that it's based on an analytic continuation of the following series:

b2e00286e36ac488cc86738ab6a43379.png


...where s is taken to be a complex number. As the page says, this is convergent when s has a complex modulus greater than 1, and analytic continuation gives rules for how to create a new complex function that extends the original to regions of the domain where the original is divergent, like s=1. Here's a page that tries to explain the essentials of the math involved: http://scientopia.org/blogs/goodmat...ries-analytic-continuations-and-riemann-zeta/
 
The proof you quote (which I'm guessing you saw at http://www.numberphile.com/videos/an...inuation1.html since that video was discussed on a lot of sites) would not be considered valid by any mathematician, since as beero1000 said there are many different ways to "add" divergent infinite series that give different answers.

The reason I presented it this way because it was easy to understand for non-math people. I couldn't care less if it was rigorous.
 
Last edited:
The proof you quote (which I'm guessing you saw at http://www.numberphile.com/videos/an...inuation1.html since that video was discussed on a lot of sites) would not be considered valid by any mathematician, since as beero1000 said there are many different ways to "add" divergent infinite series that give different answers.

The reason I presented it this way because it was easy to understand for non-math people. I couldn't care less if it was rigorous.

But then it is completely useless: it doesnt say anything about was really goes on.

Absolutely worst sort of popularizing science: simplifying until it is not even wrong .
 
Here is my explanation. It is certainly more mathematical, but there aren't any complicated ideas and hopefully everyone should be able to follow.

We're looking at arbitrary series, something like 1 - 1 + 2 + 3 + 0 + 0 + ... or 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + ... or 1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/4 + ..., or 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + .... If we look at the collection of all of these series, some of them will sum to a finite value in the traditional limit sense (like the first two examples), and some will not (like the last two examples). So we split the series into two groups; those that converge in the traditional sense and those that do not. The ultimate goal is to extend the standard notion of summation to some of those divergent series. Note that those sums still diverge, they do not converge to any finite number in the traditional sense - what we are saying is that even though they do not sum to a value in the standard sense, we can still assign them a number that makes sense in important ways.

So we want to define a function S that assigns a value to series. S should satisfy two important criteria:

  1. S should agree with the standard limit for series that converge.
  2. We should be able to multiply a series by a constant, or add two series (component-wise, with no rearrangement), and S should give the 'right' answer. Essentially, S should be a linear function.
Why we care about the first condition should be obvious - there's no point in extending our notion of summation if we lose all the results we had for 'nice' series. The second condition is less clear, but basically, those are things we can do for all convergent series. (The nixing of rearrangement is actually important even when a sequence converges conditionally, so we don't lose much there).

Thinking about these conditions, mathematicians have come up with multiple approaches for assigning values to divergent series. The most famous are Cesaro summation, Abel summation, and Ramanujan summation. These summation techniques have different strengths, so whether or not we can assign a value to a series depends on how strongly divergent that series is. Cesaro summation is the weakest and the simplest, and Ramanujan is stronger, meaning it assigns values to more series, but also more complicated. One cool result is that (under minor technical conditions) the values assigned by these summations agree, so we can really say that there is a unique 'correct' number to assign to these sums.

Cesaro summation looks at the average of the partial sums. If that average converges, then we assign that limit to the original series. So, for example 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ... has partial sums 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, ... The average of those numbers approaches 1/2 in the limit, and so we say 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ... = 1/2 (not really equal, but it is the correct assignment). Unfortunately, Cesaro summation is not powerful enough to determine the appropriate value for 1 - 2 + 3 - 4 + ... because the partial sums are 1, -1, 2, -2, 3, -3, ... and their average does not converge.

Abel summation notes that we can add a dummy variable to 1 - 2 + 3 - 4 + 5 - ... to make it into a power series 1 - 2x + 3x2 - 4x3 + ... This power series has a finite limit for x = 0, and we can increase x to approach 1 to find the appropriate value. So 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ... becomes 1 - x + x2 - x3+ ... This is a geometric series and sums to 1/(1 + x) for |x| < 1. We then take the limit as x goes to 1, and get 1/2 again. Similarly, 1 - 2x + 3x2 - 4x3 + ... = 1/(1 + x)2, so as x goes to 1 we get 1/4. However, Abel summation is still not powerful enough to handle the (very divergent) 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ...

Ramanujan summation is like Abel summation, but with a more complicated form. We can get a formula for the sum from calculus including derivatives of the function and the Bernoulli numbers. Using that idea, we finally get 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... = -1/12. As mentioned above, another way to approach this is via the analytic continuation of the Riemann zeta function, and the amazing thing is less the value they give (although -1/12 is pretty crazy) but really that they give the same result at all.
 
Absolutely worst sort of popularizing science: simplifying until it is not even wrong .

Except that it is actually right....

The value of a generalist discussion board is to present ideas that are accessible to everybody.

If I wanted to write/read a formal explanation I would go to a specialist board.
 
Absolutely worst sort of popularizing science: simplifying until it is not even wrong .

Except that it is actually right....

No. Not as you presented it. You can not get a negative sum by adding infintely many positive integers.

What you do is using the fact that infinite sums is not defined and then you define your own way to perform that sum.

I am equally right saying that 1+2+3+... = 3.1416

That may not be equally useful but it is exatly as true as written.

What you should have written is something like

S(1,2,3,4.....) = -1/12

But then noone is really surprised..

The real math behind this is very interesting but doesnt get the same amount of hype...

This is only sentionalism.
 
Some people are trying to claim that 1+2+3+4+... = -1/12 is not true. Sorry, but it has been accepted as true by many people who works in the field. This can easily be verified.

It is just one of those things that are really strange but true.
 
 Riemann zeta function has a lot of stuff on that function.

The summation definition
ζ(s) = sumn = 1 to oo (1/ns)
is only defined for s > 1.

One can go from a sum to an integral with:
Γ(s)*ζ(s) = int0 to oo (xs-1/(ex - 1)) dx

One can make it into a contour integral:
2*sin(π*s)*Γ(s)*ζ(s) = i * intC ((-x)s-1/(ex - 1)) dx
where the contour C starts at +oo - i*ε, goes around the origin, and ends at +oo + i*ε

Move the contour to surround points x = (2π*n*i) for n nonzero. After some manipulation, including use of the sum definition of the Riemann zeta function, we find Riemann's functional equation:
ζ(s) = 2ss-1*sin(π*s/2)*Γ(1-s)*ζ(1-s)

One finds from it ζ(-1) = - 1/12, using ζ(2) = π2/6.

But as beero1000 pointed out, what a divergent series sums to depends on how one does the sum, and zeta-function analytic continuation is only one way to do the sum.
 
Some people are trying to claim that 1+2+3+4+... = -1/12 is not true. Sorry, but it has been accepted as true by many people who works in the field. This can easily be verified.

It is just one of those things that are really strange but true.

It is only true if you also specifies how to perform the summation.
 
The proof you quote (which I'm guessing you saw at http://www.numberphile.com/videos/an...inuation1.html since that video was discussed on a lot of sites) would not be considered valid by any mathematician, since as beero1000 said there are many different ways to "add" divergent infinite series that give different answers.

The reason I presented it this way because it was easy to understand for non-math people. I couldn't care less if it was rigorous.
I would distinguish between two different senses of non-rigorous:

1. A proof may be non-rigorous because although it sketches out some of the main important features of a full rigorous explanation, it leaves out a lot of steps or considerations that a mathematician would need to look at before being convinced by the proof.

2. A proof may be non-rigorous because it has no relation to any rigorous proof, it's just an argument that seems superficially convincing and ends up with the right answer but for the wrong reasons.

From what I understand your proof is more like #2, although it's possible that a mathematician might turn up some argument that it's more than mere coincidence that it gets the right answer, that there are some well-defined conditions under which this sort of manipulation of divergent sums should give the same answer as certain kinds of analytic continuations of complex functions (if such an argument was found it could then go into category #1).
 
From what I understand your proof is more like #2, although it's possible that a mathematician might turn up some argument that it's more than mere coincidence that it gets the right answer, that there are some well-defined conditions under which this sort of manipulation of divergent sums should give the same answer as certain kinds of analytic continuations of complex functions (if such an argument was found it could then go into category #1).

Maybe you should work a little harder to understand.

The method I used is exactly the same method used to find the sum of a geometric series.

Your imperious attitude gets a little tiring especially since you bring nothing to the table.

Besides this is the same forum that spend 100s of posts arguing over whether .99999... = 1, not math stack-exchange
 
The method I used is exactly the same method used to find the sum of a geometric series.
There it's justified by various theorems that start with "if a series is absolutely convergent...". 1+2+3+4+... manifestly isn't, and I think Jesse is exactly correct: there may be a justification for your manipulations, but the mere fact that they look like finite arithmetic isn't it. And neither is the fact that they give the "right" answer.

If you start with (say) 1 - 1/2 + 1/3 - 1/4 + ... and do similar manipulations, you can provably come up with any result you want (just pick whichever terms are convenient for the answer you're aiming for and it'll work out in the end).

Your imperious attitude gets a little tiring especially since you bring nothing to the table.
Rigour.
 
If S1 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4... = -1/12, then by subtracting S1 - S1 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - ... = 1 + (2-1) + (3-2) + (4-3) + ... = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + ... = -1/12 - (-1/12) = 0. So if S2 = 1 + 1 + 1 + ... then S2 = 0. But if we add S1 + S2, we get (1 + 1) + (2 + 1) + (3 + 1) + .. = 2 + 3 + 4. Now S1 + S2 = -1/12 + 0 = -1/12. But 1 + 2 + 3 + 4... = 1 + (S1 + S2) = 1 + (-1/12 + 0) = 1 - 1/12 = 11/12.

Therefore, 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... = 11/12.
 
Therefore, 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... = 11/12.
Nice, I had a quick look for an actual alternative "evaluation" of 1 + 2 + ..., but didn't think to try that.

You can also do stuff like S = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ...

-S = S - 2S = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... - 2 - 4 - 6 - 8 - ... = 1 + (2 - 2) + (3 - 4) + (4 - 6) + (5 - 8) + ... = 1 + 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 + ... = 1 - S

Which implies -S = 1 - S, which implies 0 = 1, which is never a good thing. :)
 
Back
Top Bottom