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1980s: The decade things started to go to shit

Certain right-wingers seem to believe that the US's wars were all started and supported by left-wing enemies of the American people and only by such people. However, many right-wingers have been very vehement supporters of some of the more recent wars, like the Vietnam War. If anything, they believed that that war did not go far enough.

The Vietnam War began under LBJ and ended under Nixon. The Korean War began under Truman and ended under Eisenhower. WW II, of course, was under FDR so Democrats had a reputation as the "party of war" for a long time. The Bushes changed that as they conducted two wars against Iraq and another in Afghanistan which far out-did Clinton's paltry Kosovo War. Obama has been very, very slow to end Bush's wars, and a bit to anxious to start his own. Fortunately, circumstances have prevented him from going too far, least of all American public opinion. The right was not particularly more supportive of the Vietnam war than the left was.
 
The two Arthur Schlesingers have proposed that US political history goes in cycles: CYCLES OF AMERICAN HISTORY It alternates between:
  • Liberal, reform, public purpose
  • Conservative, retrenchment, private interest

-snip-

[table="class: outer_border"]
[tr][td]Years[/td][td]Phase[/td][td]Prty Sys[/td][td]Amend[/td][td]PT long[/td][td]PT FS[/td][td]What[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1776-1788[/td][td]Lib[/td][td]-[/td][td]X[/td][td]+ +[/td][td][/td][td]Liberal Movement to Create Constitution[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1788-1800[/td][td]Con[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][td]+ +[/td][td][/td][td]Hamiltonian Federalism[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1800-1812[/td][td]Lib[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][td]+ +[/td][td][/td][td]Liberal Period of Jeffersonianism[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1812-1829[/td][td]Con[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][td]0[/td][td][/td][td]Conservative Retreat After War of 1812[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1829-1841[/td][td]Lib[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][td]+ -[/td][td][/td][td]Jacksonian Democracy[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1841-1861[/td][td]Con[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][td]0 -[/td][td][/td][td]Domination of National Government by Slaveowners[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1861-1869[/td][td]Lib[/td][td]3[/td][td]X[/td][td]- -[/td][td]late[/td][td]Abolition of Slavery and Reconstruction[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1869-1901[/td][td]Con[/td][td]3[/td][td][/td][td]- -[/td][td][/td][td]The Gilded Age[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1901-1919[/td][td]Lib[/td][td]4[/td][td]X[/td][td]- +[/td][td]late[/td][td]Progressive Era[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1919-1931[/td][td]Con[/td][td]4[/td][td][/td][td]- +[/td][td][/td][td]Republican Restoration[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1931-1947[/td][td]Lib[/td][td]5[/td][td][/td][td]0 +[/td][td][/td][td]The New Deal[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1947-1962[/td][td]Con[/td][td]5 (6)[/td][td]X[/td][td]+ +[/td][td][/td][td]The Eisenhower Era[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1962-1978[/td][td]Lib[/td][td]5 (6)[/td][td]X[/td][td]+ -[/td][td]middle[/td][td]Sixties Radicalism[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1978-[/td][td]Con[/td][td]5 (6)[/td][td][/td][td]- -[/td][td][/td][td]Gilded Age II[/td][/tr]
[/table]


  • I've seen people use that chart before. I have something to point out about it - there is no consistent definition of liberal across the ages spanned by the chart. It seems that the creator of the chart simply said "I like this era so I'll call it liberal" and "I don't like this era so I'll call it conservative". Do you honestly truly actually believe that the liberals of the "Liberal Movement to Create Constitution" have anything in common with the liberals of "Sixties Radicalism"?
 
I've seen people use that chart before. I have something to point out about it - there is no consistent definition of liberal across the ages spanned by the chart. It seems that the creator of the chart simply said "I like this era so I'll call it liberal" and "I don't like this era so I'll call it conservative". Do you honestly truly actually believe that the liberals of the "Liberal Movement to Create Constitution" have anything in common with the liberals of "Sixties Radicalism"?

That is a good question. Liberal is a word that means next to nothing. Same with your conservative heroes. The question I will ask you is simple. Can it ever change?
 
The 1980s were a chance to recoup and recover from the 1970s. They were a "second chance" for the USA, and the USA blew it. But if you look at television from the 1980s, especially the mid to late 1980s, you will see bright and flashy colors and people actually feeling good. The same with the rock music of that era. My wife, being a bit younger than myself, asked me why the 1980s were that way. I said that people were celebrating that the 1970s were actually over.

While I was too young to remember them, I won't at all dispute that the '70s sucked rocks (BTW: Don't forget about all the turmoil which was seeded in the '60s). However...

The 80s were far from bright and cheery. The early 80s were quite bad economically. Crime was also pretty terrible. The social unrest wasn't as organized as in the lae 60s and 70s, but it was largely still there (and being less organized makes it worse in some ways.)
As for cheery music... I was a bit of a goth and hung out with punks, and can assure you that "bright and cheery" isn't a good description;)

PS: I have a theroy regarding some of the darkness of the 80s, at least amoung youth. I distinctly remember the local paper publishing a map of all the sites in our area known to be targeted by Soviet nukes (there were like 3 'total distruction' zones overlapping my neigbhoord actually)... In the 80s we had finally absored the fact that 'duck and cover', fallout shelters, or universal love were no match against the potential stupidity of old politicians with nukes.
Many of the supposedly up-beat songs of the 80s have lyrics about armageddon, and almost funny how many people don't realize it.
PPS: While I'm at it... Thatcher and Regean were instrumental in creating a lot of absolutely wonderful punk music. Existential angst tended to be expressed in goth music, and punks excelled at political angst.
 
The Vietnam War began under LBJ and ended under Nixon. The Korean War began under Truman and ended under Eisenhower. WW II, of course, was under FDR so Democrats had a reputation as the "party of war" for a long time.
These were all wars that right-wingers back then considered good wars. The Korean War and the Vietnam War were for fighting Communism, something that the Right considered a Very Good Thing. Though some right-wingers were America Firsters before the attack on Pearl Harbor, after that attack, they all supported that war.

What were the alternatives to war?

For WWII, it would have been letting Nazi Germany dominate the Atlantic Ocean and imperial Japan dominate the Pacific Ocean. Imagine the battleship Bismarck visiting New York City and the battleship Yamato visiting Los Angeles.

For the Korean and Vietnam Wars, it would have either been arming and training the South Koreans and South Vietnamese or else letting the Commies take over both places.

The right was not particularly more supportive of the Vietnam war than the left was.
:laughing-smiley-014

Need I say more?
 
Do you honestly truly actually believe that the liberals of the "Liberal Movement to Create Constitution" have anything in common with the liberals of "Sixties Radicalism"?
From CYCLES OF AMERICAN HISTORY about the Schlesingers' model,
In this model a "liberal" period is one in which the national objective is to "increase democracy" while in a "conservative" period the objective is to "contain democracy." Schlesinger, Sr.'s use of the term "democracy" should be understood as being social and economic as well as political. A review of the periods he identifies as "liberal" shows them to be eras in which the nation moved to improve the status quo politically, socially, and economically. The effort is undertaken to include ever greater numbers of citizens in the mainstream of American life. "Conservative" periods, according to this model, are characterized by a defense and maintenance of the status quo in all three areas.
Thus, the Constitution's creators and the Sixties radicals had something in common, despite having lots of differences.
 
There is no hint as to when another major burst of reform will happen. The Occupy movement seemed like the start of one, but it was rather successfully crushed.
Interesting read, thanks.
The occupy movement wasn't crushed, it just had no focus. The central message was: "We are generally dissatisfied." Which doesn't focus into things change. I can see the change to a more liberal focus now as conservatives begin to marginalize and become increasingly out of touch as society changes around them. Aka: the things they care about deeply, nobody else cares about.

- - - Updated - - -

I've seen people use that chart before. I have something to point out about it - there is no consistent definition of liberal across the ages spanned by the chart. It seems that the creator of the chart simply said "I like this era so I'll call it liberal" and "I don't like this era so I'll call it conservative". Do you honestly truly actually believe that the liberals of the "Liberal Movement to Create Constitution" have anything in common with the liberals of "Sixties Radicalism"?
Agreed. In many ways we are part of a liberal era as sex (in most it its forms) has become socially acceptable. But perhaps, a more useful model is to look at the party system, which indicates that we are about undergo another realignment as the GOP continues to weaken. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_Systems#United_States
 
According to the Marxist economist Richard Wolfe, a 100 year nearly continuous rise in the value of labor ended in the US in the 70s. Between computerization, telecommunications, and the entry of women and minorities into the workplace, labors value began to slip. The benefits of increased productivity went to the 1%. Since wages stopped rising, we saw the birth of consumer credit, as workers were loaned the money they were no longer earning.

Growing up in a vibrant factory town in Michigan, I watched it happen.
 
From CYCLES OF AMERICAN HISTORY about the Schlesingers' model,

Thus, the Constitution's creators and the Sixties radicals had something in common, despite having lots of differences.

Let's take one particular line and examine it in more depth to look at the sloppy scholarship of that chart.

1776-1788 - Liberal Movement to Create Constitution

One thing most people forget is that the Signers (signed the Declaration of Independence) and the Founders (ratified the constitution) are not the same group. They have people in common but are distinct. The Signers might be considered liberal, but it is hard to apply that same designation to the Founders.

If "Liberal" means to "increase democracy" as the author wrote and as Nice Squirrel repeated then it is very hard to make the case that the Founders were in any way liberal. It was the constitution that created layers to insulate the government from the populace, such as the Electoral College, how Senators were originally chosen by state legislatures, and how the Supreme Court justices are appointed entirely outside the control of any voter. You can tell when the Democrats and Republicans have lousy candidates by the way the rhetoric isn't about what the candidate would do but about how the voter should think about the SCOTUS appointments (such as Obama v Romney).

Also consider that one of the Founders was Alexander Hamilton. Now if I was alive at the time I'd have been aligned with the Anti-Federalists, and then later with the Democratic Republicans. He would have felt comfortable with today's conservatives, so much so that your chart even names the next "conservative" period after that bastard. He was part of the movement that brought us the constitution.

Unless the author means to indicate that the liberal period ended with the passage of the constitution. That would be a very interesting interpretation.

So the first era that is labeled "liberal" either culminated with the constitution or ended with the constitution.

As we go down the chart into later eras, I agree that IF the Articles period is liberal, than the Washington and Adams administrations would be conservative and then the Jefferson period would be liberal. But look later. "Domination of the National Government by Slaveowners."

Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party became Jackson's Democratic Party, and it was the same party that wound up on the same side as the slaveowners opposed to the Hamilton-Clay Whig Party of the north. This means that wanting the US government to spend money to help corporations is now considered a "liberal" value. Back when the fight was Jefferson-Hamilton, using the government to assist local businesses was considered conservative and the liberals opposed it. Now, leading up to the Civil War, doing so is considered liberal and apparently conservatives oppose it. So is it a liberal value or not? If a protective tariff is put in place to safeguard a local business, and the money used to subsidize that local business, is it liberal or conservative?

And are the heirs of Hamilton liberal or conservative? How about the heirs of Jefferson?

The Civil War ushered in an era of Republican domination, where it was considered good for the government to put protective tariffs in place and use the money to subsidize businesses. Many northern states did it before the Civil War, few southern states did. After the Civil War, many of the reconstruction governments started doing it as well, but in what was an amazing show of honesty (although for less than honorable reasons) when the populations of the states were finally given control of their own state governments they repudiated the reconstruction/internal-improvement debts racked up by the reconstruction governments.

So we've established that "liberal" and "conservative" have switched at least once already, and we haven't even gotten past reconstruction.

Then we get to the "Gilded Era" and the "Progressive Era". Personally I do not see them as separate eras. Having had a "liberal" era where businesses were soaking the public using the government, we had that happen without Reconstruction also happening and called it the Gilded Era. Then, when people started complaining about the excesses of those businesses and asking for regulation, we had those businesses writing the regulations on themselves. The Gilded Era and the Progressive Era were the time of a huge feud between the Morgan interests and the Rockefeller-Kuhn-Leob interests. Whenever one faction was in power, they used the "progressive" powers of the government to hurt the other family. "Teddy" Roosevelt broke up Rockefeller trusts, Taft broke up Morgan trusts. It culminated with the founding of the Federal Reserve when the two families finally reached an accord, in the middle of a "liberal" era. And remember, Hamilton (conservative) liked central banking, Jefferson (liberal) didn't.

Now apparently central banking went from being conservative to being liberal. Usually as a concept gets older, it is viewed as more conservative, but now we have the reverse. And I fail to see how central banking is bringing more power to the people.

After 1919 it is clear we are using very different ideas about what is conservative and what is liberal than we were at the beginning of the chart. We are clearly using the modern definitions of those those terms to create the idea of eras for the modern time. No real examination is needed after this point, except to point out that Jefferson's heirs, the libertarians, are inexplicably considered to be somehow aligned with the modern conservative. It really is a mystery.
 
While I was too young to remember them, I won't at all dispute that the '70s sucked rocks (BTW: Don't forget about all the turmoil which was seeded in the '60s). However...

The 80s were far from bright and cheery. The early 80s were quite bad economically. Crime was also pretty terrible. The social unrest wasn't as organized as in the lae 60s and 70s, but it was largely still there (and being less organized makes it worse in some ways.)
As for cheery music... I was a bit of a goth and hung out with punks, and can assure you that "bright and cheery" isn't a good description;)

PS: I have a theroy regarding some of the darkness of the 80s, at least amoung youth. I distinctly remember the local paper publishing a map of all the sites in our area known to be targeted by Soviet nukes (there were like 3 'total distruction' zones overlapping my neigbhoord actually)... In the 80s we had finally absored the fact that 'duck and cover', fallout shelters, or universal love were no match against the potential stupidity of old politicians with nukes.
Many of the supposedly up-beat songs of the 80s have lyrics about armageddon, and almost funny how many people don't realize it.
PPS: While I'm at it... Thatcher and Regean were instrumental in creating a lot of absolutely wonderful punk music. Existential angst tended to be expressed in goth music, and punks excelled at political angst.

I AM old enough to remember, and the '80's were quite good economically after about 1982 when recovery from the recession began. I don't think punk rock was exemplary even of the music of the '80's much less of the public mood. And certainly by the end of the '80's fear of nuclear war was on the decline as the Soviets were withdrawing from Afghanistan, the US had signed an arms reduction treaty, and the Cold War was winding down.
 
These were all wars that right-wingers back then considered good wars. The Korean War and the Vietnam War were for fighting Communism, something that the Right considered a Very Good Thing. Though some right-wingers were America Firsters before the attack on Pearl Harbor, after that attack, they all supported that war.

What were the alternatives to war?

For WWII, it would have been letting Nazi Germany dominate the Atlantic Ocean and imperial Japan dominate the Pacific Ocean. Imagine the battleship Bismarck visiting New York City and the battleship Yamato visiting Los Angeles.

For the Korean and Vietnam Wars, it would have either been arming and training the South Koreans and South Vietnamese or else letting the Commies take over both places.


:laughing-smiley-014

Need I say more?

On the contrary the "right-wingers" opposed the Korean War. The hard-liners on foreign policy in the Republican Party were largely in the party's moderate-to-liberal wing. Robert Taft, especially, the Senate Republican leader, was an outspoken opponent of the Korean War.

Had Truman had the foresight of George H.W. Bush, he would have stopped when the job was done. The UN mandate was to liberate South Korea. That was accomplished with the success of MacArthur's invasion at Inchon. But Truman authorized MacArthur to conquer the whole peninsula. That led to the Chinese intervention, and the subsequent stalemate.

Some Republicans and some Democrats spoke out against the Vietnam War while Johnson was president. But for the most part, Democrats supported the war until Nixon became president. Then they became quite obstructionist.

And yes, if we wanted to oppose Communism, we needed to arm South Vietnam much more heavily than we did. In fact, while Johnson was sending American draftees to South Vietnam in 1965, South Vietnam itself did not even institute conscription until 1968.

- - - Updated - - -

Imperial Decline can coexist with a Gilded Age.

Perhaps, but I don't think there's much gilded about our current age.
 
Let's take one particular line and examine it in more depth to look at the sloppy scholarship of that chart.

1776-1788 - Liberal Movement to Create Constitution

One thing most people forget is that the Signers (signed the Declaration of Independence) and the Founders (ratified the constitution) are not the same group. They have people in common but are distinct. The Signers might be considered liberal, but it is hard to apply that same designation to the Founders.

If "Liberal" means to "increase democracy" as the author wrote and as Nice Squirrel repeated then it is very hard to make the case that the Founders were in any way liberal. It was the constitution that created layers to insulate the government from the populace, such as the Electoral College, how Senators were originally chosen by state legislatures, and how the Supreme Court justices are appointed entirely outside the control of any voter. You can tell when the Democrats and Republicans have lousy candidates by the way the rhetoric isn't about what the candidate would do but about how the voter should think about the SCOTUS appointments (such as Obama v Romney).

Also consider that one of the Founders was Alexander Hamilton. Now if I was alive at the time I'd have been aligned with the Anti-Federalists, and then later with the Democratic Republicans. He would have felt comfortable with today's conservatives, so much so that your chart even names the next "conservative" period after that bastard. He was part of the movement that brought us the constitution.

Unless the author means to indicate that the liberal period ended with the passage of the constitution. That would be a very interesting interpretation.

So the first era that is labeled "liberal" either culminated with the constitution or ended with the constitution.

As we go down the chart into later eras, I agree that IF the Articles period is liberal, than the Washington and Adams administrations would be conservative and then the Jefferson period would be liberal. But look later. "Domination of the National Government by Slaveowners."

Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party became Jackson's Democratic Party, and it was the same party that wound up on the same side as the slaveowners opposed to the Hamilton-Clay Whig Party of the north. This means that wanting the US government to spend money to help corporations is now considered a "liberal" value. Back when the fight was Jefferson-Hamilton, using the government to assist local businesses was considered conservative and the liberals opposed it. Now, leading up to the Civil War, doing so is considered liberal and apparently conservatives oppose it. So is it a liberal value or not? If a protective tariff is put in place to safeguard a local business, and the money used to subsidize that local business, is it liberal or conservative?

And are the heirs of Hamilton liberal or conservative? How about the heirs of Jefferson?

The Civil War ushered in an era of Republican domination, where it was considered good for the government to put protective tariffs in place and use the money to subsidize businesses. Many northern states did it before the Civil War, few southern states did. After the Civil War, many of the reconstruction governments started doing it as well, but in what was an amazing show of honesty (although for less than honorable reasons) when the populations of the states were finally given control of their own state governments they repudiated the reconstruction/internal-improvement debts racked up by the reconstruction governments.

So we've established that "liberal" and "conservative" have switched at least once already, and we haven't even gotten past reconstruction.

Then we get to the "Gilded Era" and the "Progressive Era". Personally I do not see them as separate eras. Having had a "liberal" era where businesses were soaking the public using the government, we had that happen without Reconstruction also happening and called it the Gilded Era. Then, when people started complaining about the excesses of those businesses and asking for regulation, we had those businesses writing the regulations on themselves. The Gilded Era and the Progressive Era were the time of a huge feud between the Morgan interests and the Rockefeller-Kuhn-Leob interests. Whenever one faction was in power, they used the "progressive" powers of the government to hurt the other family. "Teddy" Roosevelt broke up Rockefeller trusts, Taft broke up Morgan trusts. It culminated with the founding of the Federal Reserve when the two families finally reached an accord, in the middle of a "liberal" era. And remember, Hamilton (conservative) liked central banking, Jefferson (liberal) didn't.

Now apparently central banking went from being conservative to being liberal. Usually as a concept gets older, it is viewed as more conservative, but now we have the reverse. And I fail to see how central banking is bringing more power to the people.

After 1919 it is clear we are using very different ideas about what is conservative and what is liberal than we were at the beginning of the chart. We are clearly using the modern definitions of those those terms to create the idea of eras for the modern time. No real examination is needed after this point, except to point out that Jefferson's heirs, the libertarians, are inexplicably considered to be somehow aligned with the modern conservative. It really is a mystery.

I have agree with most of this. Using words like "liberal" and "conservative" isn't very useful over such a long time span. Hamilton opposed slavery. Wouldn't that make him liberal? Certainly, that would have put him on the side of expanding democracy, and if you proposed to apply the restrictions that Hamilton wrote into his banking bill to the Federal Reserve today, you would be denounced as a reactionary trying to destroy the "independence" of the Fed. And in the gilded age, the Republicans were the inflationists who wanted to coin silver. And who was the liberal in 1896, Bryan who had the backing of low-income, but racist, Southern farmers or McKinley, who won that election largely with the support of urban workers?

More recently, we have the example of Cesar Chavez who strongly opposed illegal immigration, and Martin Luther King who opposed abortion. A single generation can turn the tables on what is "liberal" or "conservative" or whatever other names we come up with like "populist" or "progressive" or even "libertarian." And the fact is that most of these movements benefitted people who were both rich and poor even as their opponents did the same. The Populist cry for "free coinage of silver" would have greatly benefitted the Western silver miners who weren't a poverty-stricken lot.
 
I AM old enough to remember, and the '80's were quite good economically after about 1982 when recovery from the recession began. I don't think punk rock was exemplary even of the music of the '80's much less of the public mood. And certainly by the end of the '80's fear of nuclear war was on the decline as the Soviets were withdrawing from Afghanistan, the US had signed an arms reduction treaty, and the Cold War was winding down.
You had a rather different experience from mine. Can I ask what your personal economic situation was like? I was a kid, but my family was solid middle class (maybe better described as "upper working class").

As for the overall point... I think our disagreement actually illustrates the real point well. It really depends on the details one has to live with. The early 80s were not generally good for the poor and working class, but there are always local and regional differences, and generally the upper classes did do rather well.
 
You had a rather different experience from mine. Can I ask what your personal economic situation was like? I was a kid, but my family was solid middle class (maybe better described as "upper working class").

As for the overall point... I think our disagreement actually illustrates the real point well. It really depends on the details one has to live with. The early 80s were not generally good for the poor and working class, but there are always local and regional differences, and generally the upper classes did do rather well.

In the '80's the poor and the working classes didn't have to worry about high prices and high unemployment just as the upper classes didn't have to. When you have a good economy, everyone benefits. When you have a bad economy everyone suffers. I don't think there is any basis for claiming the certain policies will produce a strong economic growth, but only the rich will benefit from it.

I personally was better off during the '70's, but by the '80's I had left the bank to teach school.
 
^^
household-incomes-mean-real.gif

From (lots more at):
http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Household-Income-Distribution.php
Or just google for other sources.

ETA:
As for unemployment... The headline rate didn't drop below 7% until the very end of 1986.
fredgraph.png
 
I have agree with most of this. Using words like "liberal" and "conservative" isn't very useful over such a long time span. Hamilton opposed slavery. Wouldn't that make him liberal? Certainly, that would have put him on the side of expanding democracy, and if you proposed to apply the restrictions that Hamilton wrote into his banking bill to the Federal Reserve today, you would be denounced as a reactionary trying to destroy the "independence" of the Fed. And in the gilded age, the Republicans were the inflationists who wanted to coin silver. And who was the liberal in 1896, Bryan who had the backing of low-income, but racist, Southern farmers or McKinley, who won that election largely with the support of urban workers?

More recently, we have the example of Cesar Chavez who strongly opposed illegal immigration, and Martin Luther King who opposed abortion. A single generation can turn the tables on what is "liberal" or "conservative" or whatever other names we come up with like "populist" or "progressive" or even "libertarian." And the fact is that most of these movements benefitted people who were both rich and poor even as their opponents did the same. The Populist cry for "free coinage of silver" would have greatly benefitted the Western silver miners who weren't a poverty-stricken lot.

I think that this is a little clearer if we go back to the dictionary meaning of the words "conservative" and "liberal." A conservative is one who opposes change, who supports the status quo, the way that things are and the existing social, class order. A liberal is one who supports change, who puts change forth as the solution to our problems and who opposes the existing social order.

I think that historians use the terms in these broad ways, not the narrower single issue way that we do today.
 
In the '80's the poor and the working classes didn't have to worry about high prices and high unemployment just as the upper classes didn't have to. When you have a good economy, everyone benefits. When you have a bad economy everyone suffers. I don't think there is any basis for claiming the certain policies will produce a strong economic growth, but only the rich will benefit from it.

I personally was better off during the '70's, but by the '80's I had left the bank to teach school.

What economic policies do is to determine the split between rewarding labor and rewarding capital. What was decided in the 1980's was to shift the economy from rewarding labor to rewarding capital, from wages to profits. Increasing the amount of the nation's income that went to the wealthy was suppose to increase the amount of money available to invest in businesses to grow the economy from the supply side rather than growing it from the demand side.

These policies are pretty straight forward. Decrease taxes on the rich, increase them on the poor and the middle class. Suppress wages by suppressing unions, lower the minimum wage, reduce regulatory limits on employers requiring overtime, globalization, etc. These policies were put in place and are largely still the policies in place.

These policies have produced the income inequality that we see today. They haven't produced the increase in business investment that they were suppose to produce. Rather they have produced a series of asset bubbles in real property, homes and commodities, and in paper investments, stocks and derivatives.

While it can be argued whether or not the rich deserve an ever increasing portion of the nation's income, it is hard to argue that it has produced what it promised, increased business investment. Or that the asset bubbles that it has produced or the income inequality that is its method of producing the shift in income are good for the economy. The income inequality has produced, as intended, a lowering of demand. This lower demand has removed the incentive to invest.
 
I think that this is a little clearer if we go back to the dictionary meaning of the words "conservative" and "liberal." A conservative is one who opposes change, who supports the status quo, the way that things are and the existing social, class order. A liberal is one who supports change, who puts change forth as the solution to our problems and who opposes the existing social order.

I think that historians use the terms in these broad ways, not the narrower single issue way that we do today.

That's not the point. The Schlesingers, who came up with the chart, defined liberal as that group that sided with the poorer elements of the population against wealthy interests. But wealthy interests can be diverse and so can poor elements. You could argue that Lincoln represented wealthy industrial interests, he was, after all, a railroad lawyer. But he also opposed slavery. Poor southern whites, on the other hand, fought (literally) against Lincoln's policies which were also opposed by wealthy southern planters.
 
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