A Double Standard When It Comes to Immigrants?

[Ford]

So the latest "scandal" the right wingers are trying to pin on Obama is that his administration has allegedly "encouraged" oppressed brown people from Latin America to risk sending their children here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has it not been the (at least unofficial) policy of the US to encourage the citizens of one Latin American country to seek asylum in the United States?


I mean, if you're a Spanish speaking citizen of a Latin American country that manages to walk across the Rio Grande, you are an "illegal" who must be deported right away. If on the other hand you are a Spanish speaking citizen of a Latin American country who manages to navigate the 90 miles between Cuba and Florida successfully, you are a "refugee" who is granted asylum the second you reach the beach.


Am I not seeing a double standard?

 

[repoman]

First off, who really cares about double standards anymore, they are so ubiquitous that it is amazing if a political wing does not have them. In fact the double standards may be a way to get a discouraged and compliant populace. If politicians were able to be shamed into resigning for having double standards exposed, then what next?!?

But the Cuba thing is about communism and making us look good.

The bigger double standard is for Haitians. That country is much more of a wreck than Cuba, but refugee status for Haitians is hard to get.

But onto the bigger topic of the southern border and Mexicans and Central Americans coming across in some very sizable numbers now. Why is it always assumed that no one can have a principled non-racist stance against immigration?

It seems that a certain level of immigration may need to happen to replace the lowered birth rate (I will totally leave aside my concerns about peak oil and supporting people with less fuel here), but even talking about what the level should be paints you as an asshole. That is just crazy.

The only way that people who favor high levels of immigration have a moral high ground is regarding the conditions that the people are subjected to in those countries often by our corporations and military weapons we sell them. People are pushed off of their farms and have no other options. However, in a perverse way, letting them come here is a pressure valve off for the multinationals and the governments to hide this dispossession. The can continue to exploit these workers there and then get to exploit the dispossessed in the USA and the problem never comes to a head.

Not only that the downward pressure on wages here helps to keep unions on the back foot even though SEIU wants to act like it doesn't.

Also, more immigrants more housing starts eventually and more strip malls and more cars and so on. That is what the moneyed interests are really after.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Cuba (aka South Florida) is about Presidential elections.

 

[Playball40]

Yes, it is. I remember how poorly the Hatian immigrants were treated in Miami. And I never understood the double-standard until I was older.

 

[Sabine Grant]

So the latest "scandal" the right wingers are trying to pin on Obama is that his administration has allegedly "encouraged" oppressed brown people from Latin America to risk sending their children here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has it not been the (at least unofficial) policy of the US to encourage the citizens of one Latin American country to seek asylum in the United States?


I mean, if you're a Spanish speaking citizen of a Latin American country that manages to walk across the Rio Grande, you are an "illegal" who must be deported right away. If on the other hand you are a Spanish speaking citizen of a Latin American country who manages to navigate the 90 miles between Cuba and Florida successfully, you are a "refugee" who is granted asylum the second you reach the beach.


Am I not seeing a double standard?

Ford, I may be wrong but IMO a nuance has been established between individuals benefiting of political asylum and those viewed motivated by economical reasons only. Cubans are considered eligible for political asylum due to the oppressing Cuban regime. Though IMO it can argued that an economical motivation is a consequence from a political regime causing people to be stagnating into dire poverty.

 

[Playball40]

So the latest "scandal" the right wingers are trying to pin on Obama is that his administration has allegedly "encouraged" oppressed brown people from Latin America to risk sending their children here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has it not been the (at least unofficial) policy of the US to encourage the citizens of one Latin American country to seek asylum in the United States?


I mean, if you're a Spanish speaking citizen of a Latin American country that manages to walk across the Rio Grande, you are an "illegal" who must be deported right away. If on the other hand you are a Spanish speaking citizen of a Latin American country who manages to navigate the 90 miles between Cuba and Florida successfully, you are a "refugee" who is granted asylum the second you reach the beach.


Am I not seeing a double standard?

Ford, I may be wrong but IMO a nuance has been established between individuals benefiting of political asylum and those viewed motivated by economical reasons only. Cubans are considered eligible for political asylum due to the oppressing Cuban regime. Though IMO it can argued that an economical motivation is a consequence from a political regime causing people to be stagnating into dire poverty.

But there are 'regimes' that are much more oppressive and violent than Cuba (at least today).

 

[Sabine Grant]

Yes, it is. I remember how poorly the Hatian immigrants were treated in Miami. And I never understood the double-standard until I was older.

Not that this in any way would justify not treating Haitian refugees on equal grounds as other refugees (whether it be on humanitarian ground such as following the devastating earthquake or political grounds), but there is a trend to view Haitians as "diseased people" due to the high ratio of TB cases in Haiti. Among isolated cases of TB in Florida, the majority of them were detected among Haitian refugees. Or a TB positive patient (non Haitian) was traced back to having traveled to Haiti or been in contact with Haitian refugees.(health care workers).

 

[Sabine Grant]

Ford, I may be wrong but IMO a nuance has been established between individuals benefiting of political asylum and those viewed motivated by economical reasons only. Cubans are considered eligible for political asylum due to the oppressing Cuban regime. Though IMO it can argued that an economical motivation is a consequence from a political regime causing people to be stagnating into dire poverty.

But there are 'regimes' that are much more oppressive and violent than Cuba (at least today).

Of course. However, Cuba has always been viewed as an anti US regime which IMO has reinforced a more "liberal" response from the US to the flow of Cuban refugees in terms of political asylum. But one must recall the tragic incident a few years ago of a US Coast Guard ship blocking Cuban refugees who jumped in the water from their boat attempting to swim to the Florida shore. They all drowned.

Also, as you may already know about which Hispanic origin group is known to be the wealthiest in Florida but Cuban origin? Meaning Florida Cubans are in a better position to lobby and pull their weight than other Hispanic origin Floridians. Then, of course, their poster boy Marco Rubio. Even within Hispanics, there is an attitude of disdain towards Central America origin immigrants, attitude cultivated by Florida Cubans.

 

[Keith&Co.]

But there are 'regimes' that are much more oppressive and violent than Cuba (at least today).

But not if they're our allies.

Doonesbury did a story arc a while back, the Priest was counseling refugees. You were not to say you're from country A, the Administration does not believe the government there commits atrocities. Say you're from country B. Everyone knows B are assholes.

 

[Nexus]

I should remind everyone confused about the treatment of Haitians vs Cubans that Haitians are black.

 

[thebeave]

I wonder if I have a double standard sometimes. Occasionally, I find myself trying to talk to a non-English speaking Mexican immigrant laborer about something and find myself frustrated and wishing he would just go back across the border where he came from. Then I ask myself, "Well, what if Sweden bordered the US and all these hot, non-English speaking Swedish girls were crossing the border illegally and one was trying to ask me where a particular store, restaurant, etc was. Would I get pissy and want them to go back home? Probably not." Yes, I have double standards.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Would I get pissy and want them to go back home? Probably not." Yes, I have double standards.

That's not a double standard. You want to help people that you want to be near, you don't want to help people that you don't want to be near. That's a standard. With a sliding scale of the attractiveness of each individual. You could set up a chart, 'You must be THIS attractive to make me want to help you.'

A double standard would be if you helped illegal Swedish Bikini Team immigrants because you're protesting unfair standards at the Immigration office, while you avoided illegal Mexican Lettuce Picker immigrants because they're here illegally and you are not tolerant of that sort of crime.

 

[Valjean]

Am I not seeing a double standard? Ford, I may be wrong but IMO a nuance has been established between individuals benefiting of political asylum and those viewed motivated by economical reasons only. Cubans are considered eligible for political asylum due to the oppressing Cuban regime. Though IMO it can argued that an economical motivation is a consequence from a political regime causing people to be stagnating into dire poverty.

Cuba:
Free education.
Free healthcare.
Homelessness: 0%
Hunger: 0%

Cuban billboard:
200 millones de niños en el mundo duermen hoy en las calles - ¡Ninguno es cubano!
(200 million children in the world sleep in the streets, and not one of them Cuban).

Compare to living conditions in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. The US broke these economies, directly or indirectly.
The US suppressed democratic government and social progress. Democracies like to use their country's resources to benefit their own citizens.
The US fomented and supported authoritarian regimes and massive human rights abuses. Puppet regimes are happy to divert their resources to benefit US corporations, in exchange for job security in the face of an angry populace.

We broke them. Don't we owe them?

 

[Bronzeage]

Cubans are still benefiting from cold war politics, but they are the Achilles' heel of the GOP. For practical purposes, which is to say, political purposes, Cubans are not Latinos. Your average Mexican, Honduran, Guatemalan or Costa Rican immigrant does not see the Cubans as brothers in arms. When they see Cuban immigrants on the beach, they see Republicans with open arms. When they see Central American immigrants, they see Minute Men and Tea Party Patrols. Nothing can erase this, or overcome it.

 

[Playball40]

Cubans are still benefiting from cold war politics, but they are the Achilles' heel of the GOP. For practical purposes, which is to say, political purposes, Cubans are not Latinos. Your average Mexican, Honduran, Guatemalan or Costa Rican immigrant does not see the Cubans as brothers in arms. When they see Cuban immigrants on the beach, they see Republicans with open arms. When they see Central American immigrants, they see Minute Men and Tea Party Patrols. Nothing can erase this, or overcome it.

And yet Miami-Dade, Broward and West Palm Beach Counties go blue almost every election. Cubans are not supporting the GOP in droves anymore. The old "pissed about the Bay of Pigs" Cubans are dying out.

- - - Updated - - -

Am I not seeing a double standard? Ford, I may be wrong but IMO a nuance has been established between individuals benefiting of political asylum and those viewed motivated by economical reasons only. Cubans are considered eligible for political asylum due to the oppressing Cuban regime. Though IMO it can argued that an economical motivation is a consequence from a political regime causing people to be stagnating into dire poverty.

Cuba:
Free education.
Free healthcare.
Homelessness: 0%
Hunger: 0%

Cuban billboard:
200 millones de niños en el mundo duermen hoy en las calles - ¡Ninguno es cubano!
(200 million children in the world sleep in the streets, and not one of them Cuban).

Compare to living conditions in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. The US broke these economies, directly or indirectly.
The US suppressed democratic government and social progress. Democracies like to use their country's resources to benefit their own citizens.
The US fomented and supported authoritarian regimes and massive human rights abuses. Puppet regimes are happy to divert their resources to benefit US corporations, in exchange for job security in the face of an angry populace.

We broke them. Don't we owe them?

Yeah, Cuba is not exactly the Utopia you seem to be describing here. I agree things are horrid in the countries you mentioned, but please do not kid yourself into thinking things are just hunky dory in Cuba.

 

[Bronzeage]

And yet Miami-Dade, Broward and West Palm Beach Counties go blue almost every election. Cubans are not supporting the GOP in droves anymore. The old "pissed about the Bay of Pigs" Cubans are dying out.

This is why Mark Rubio is doomed in the GOP. His Florida base is shrinking and if he makes a move to court the Continental Latinos, he alienates the Tea Party. If he courts the Tea Party, he loses the Continentals forever.

 

[Valjean]

Playball40
Yeah, Cuba is not exactly the Utopia you seem to be describing here. I agree things are horrid in the countries you mentioned, but please do not kid yourself into thinking things are just hunky dory in Cuba.

Agreed. Cuba's pretty much universally impoverished, particularly since the Soviets left, but everyone has food, housing, education and healthcare. Crime is low, the population's healthy. Yet all a Cuban has to do is set foot in the US to gain automatic asylum.
Anyone else, unless they're in imminent danger of execution, has an uphill battle no matter how desperate his situation.

I'd call that a double standard.