A living profit

[ksen]

Corporate people earning more than a minimum profit are just driving up costs for everyone else and causing mass unemployment. Don't the corporate people calling for higher and higher profits realize the damage they are causing other corporate people and unemployment effects of making it more expensive for other businesses? What, you think those other businesses are just going to absorb the added costs of your raised profit? Of course they're not. They're going to raise their prices just as much as you raised your profit to cover it or they are going to automate the products/services you used to provide them.

End the economic terrorism of greedy corporate people looking to increase their profits.

 

[Canard DuJour]

People retaining more than a minimum profit anticipated this argument and drafted in economists to formulate marginalism. Thus a bigger share of the pie is only a drag on the economy when the little guy asks for it.

You have been told.

 

[coloradoatheist]

And is the currently level of profits higher than it has been? Or is it normal? And how would you know if this is more of a symptom of other underlying issues instead?

 

[ksen]

And is the currently level of profits higher than it has been? Or is it normal?

You've been told and shown before that we are at historically high levels of corporate profits.

And how would you know if this is more of a symptom of other underlying issues instead?

You ask a lot of questions without ever really giving any answers. Probably easier that way.

 

[coloradoatheist]

You've been told and shown before that we are at historically high levels of corporate profits.

And how would you know if this is more of a symptom of other underlying issues instead?

You ask a lot of questions without ever really giving any answers. Probably easier that way.

And you can't answer the question "why now" Did companies just decide to start making profits? Did they not have profits before a few years ago? People all of a sudden became greedy?

 

[ksen]

And you can't answer the question "why now"

Sure I can.

Given that we're in a period of historically high corporate profits, why do you think that's happening now? Or will you dispute that we're in such a period right now?

 

[coloradoatheist]

And you can't answer the question "why now"

Sure I can.

Given that we're in a period of historically high corporate profits, why do you think that's happening now? Or will you dispute that we're in such a period right now?

I think there a variety of reasons, but not that corporations finally became greedy.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

What would be an appropriate maximum profit? How would you calculate it?

Should there be a maximum wage?

 

[laughing dog]

Sure I can.

Given that we're in a period of historically high corporate profits, why do you think that's happening now? Or will you dispute that we're in such a period right now?

I think there a variety of reasons, but not that corporations finally became greedy.

I don't think anyone here claims that corporations FINALLY become "greedy". I believe the implicit argument is that our society has (d)evolved into accepting such outcomes.

 

[ksen]

Sure I can.

Given that we're in a period of historically high corporate profits, why do you think that's happening now?

I think there a variety of reasons

Let's hear some.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And is the currently level of profits higher than it has been? Or is it normal? And how would you know if this is more of a symptom of other underlying issues instead?

Yes, it's currently above average. Reigning them in a bit would be good if it could be done in a non-destructive way.

The problem is that our opponents are looking at that average and applying it to all businesses and they're also treating it as permanent rather than a temporary abberation as a result of our economy being out of whack. (That's the only way they can justify what they want to do--soak business to fund social programs.)

Perhaps what we need is a tax that's indexed to profit ratio. A general tax increase is not the answer because it will bite hard when things go back to normal.

 

[prideandfall]

And you can't answer the question "why now" Did companies just decide to start making profits? Did they not have profits before a few years ago? People all of a sudden became greedy?

the answer to that question is so simple and so easy and so obvious the reason it isn't directly answered is because the only assumption one can make about why you'd ask it in the first place is that you're either being intentionally obtuse for the purposes of generally being a dickbag, or you're literally physically retarded - and since nobody thinks either of those things about you, it's assumed you're asking it ironically.

corporate profits have been going up fairly steadily since the industrial revolution because of... the industrial revolution.
technological advancements make the production side more efficient, and make the logistics side of the service industry easier and cheaper.

A. "cost to run the business (including R&D, manufacturing, payroll, all the myriad costs of running a company) subtracted from B. net earnings from the company's offerings to equal C. "profit."
the lower that A is relative to B, the more profit a company makes. herpa. fucking. derp.

nobody objects to a company making a profit, and i doubt you'd find anyone but the most bizarrely out there who would argue against the idea of company's being able to increase profits.
the issue comes from the question of how much is reasonable to expect a company to reinvest C. into A., specifically as relates to employee wages.

a prime example:
for at least the last 30 years every consumer survey has noted that Coke is the most globally recognized corporate brand on the planet, where something like 94% of every single human on this planet knows about coke.
approximately 1.7% of all the liquid consumed in an average days on Earth is a coke product.
of the 33 top grossing non-alcoholic beverages in existence, 15 of them are owned by Coke.
and yet, in 2010, Coke spent 2.9 billion dollars in advertising.

... so think of this like the argument against military spending: it's not that the people arguing against the size of the military budget are against the government or government spending, they just have an issue with where all the money is going.

 

[ksen]

The problem is that our opponents are looking at that average and applying it to all businesses

You mean kind of like how some people look at average GDP and say that everything is hunky dory?

Or how some people say, "Hey, globally people are surviving on $2/day so what are you lazy American workers complaining about?"

 

[prideandfall]

And is the currently level of profits higher than it has been? Or is it normal? And how would you know if this is more of a symptom of other underlying issues instead?

Yes, it's currently above average. Reigning them in a bit would be good if it could be done in a non-destructive way.

The problem is that our opponents are looking at that average and applying it to all businesses and they're also treating it as permanent rather than a temporary abberation as a result of our economy being out of whack. (That's the only way they can justify what they want to do--soak business to fund social programs.)

Perhaps what we need is a tax that's indexed to profit ratio. A general tax increase is not the answer because it will bite hard when things go back to normal.

or simply a "you must be this tall to get on this ride" standard applied to employee wages.

a minimum standard living wage is set for an area, and for a company to do business in that area it has to pay employees there that much. clean, simple, easy.
if a company can't afford to pay that amount without going bankrupt, then that company doesn't get to exist - survival of the fittest.

if the company's then jack up the price of their products and services, then jack up the living wage - it's an economic arms race that 'business' can lose, and SHOULD lose.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I think there a variety of reasons, but not that corporations finally became greedy.

I don't think anyone here claims that corporations FINALLY become "greedy". I believe the implicit argument is that our society has (d)evolved into accepting such outcomes.

Society can say that the Sun revolves around the earth, but that doesn't change anything. It's not what society is thinking, but why corporations have higher profits and if they are hiring/reinvesting or doing other things with that money instead and why.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't think anyone here claims that corporations FINALLY become "greedy". I believe the implicit argument is that our society has (d)evolved into accepting such outcomes.

Society can say that the Sun revolves around the earth, but that doesn't change anything. It's not what society is thinking, but why corporations have higher profits and if they are hiring/reinvesting or doing other things with that money instead and why.

That is non-responsive. This isn't about "thinking" but doing. Social norms and mores govern people's actions. I believe the implicit argument in the OP is that we have changed to accept practices and behaviors from corporations that are consistent with higher profits that we (as a society) did not in the past.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

 

[coloradoatheist]

Society can say that the Sun revolves around the earth, but that doesn't change anything. It's not what society is thinking, but why corporations have higher profits and if they are hiring/reinvesting or doing other things with that money instead and why.

That is non-responsive. This isn't about "thinking" but doing. Social norms and mores govern people's actions. I believe the implicit argument in the OP is that we have changed to accept practices and behaviors from corporations that are consistent with higher profits that we (as a society) did not in the past.

That doesn't explain anything either. Do people read the financial statements of companies in the past or now and then go out and make their shopping/buying patterns based on their profit margins? In the past did they say, "Hey Sears is making too much money so I'm now going to Target?"

 

[ksen]

Society can say that the Sun revolves around the earth, but that doesn't change anything. It's not what society is thinking, but why corporations have higher profits and if they are hiring/reinvesting or doing other things with that money instead and why.

That is non-responsive. This isn't about "thinking" but doing. Social norms and mores govern people's actions. I believe the implicit argument in the OP is that we have changed to accept practices and behaviors from corporations that are consistent with higher profits that we (as a society) did not in the past.

Pretty close.

My implicit argument is that the arguments used against the living wage or even just a higher minimum wage sound ridiculous when used in the context of higher corporate profits.

 

[coloradoatheist]

That is non-responsive. This isn't about "thinking" but doing. Social norms and mores govern people's actions. I believe the implicit argument in the OP is that we have changed to accept practices and behaviors from corporations that are consistent with higher profits that we (as a society) did not in the past.

Pretty close.

My implicit argument is that the arguments used against the living wage or even just a higher minimum wage sound ridiculous when used in the context of higher corporate profits.

Yes and no. The argument is if the minimum wage is only going to effect these companies that have higher profits. Is that our entire economy?