A Saint With A Mixed History: Junipero Serra's Canonization Raises Eyebrows

[Potoooooooo]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...-junipero-serras-canonization-raises-eyebrows

Pope Francis announced he will elevate the influential missionary to sainthood when he visits Washington, D.C. But Native American groups say Father Serra was far from saintly.

 

[Perspicuo]

As the Spaniards pushed through California, so did diseases, which wiped out large numbers of the native population. Tribes were pushed to convert and to live in the missions, where they where taught to farm. Those who disobeyed were severely punished. It was not unheard of for someone to be whipped to death.

Miranda told NPR that Serra turned a blind eye to the abuses Native Americans suffered. "But he didn't put a stop to it," she said. "I think he was very ambitious and very much caught up in the opportunity to create a civilization. He was playing God in a way."

Interesting.

There are other Latin American historical figures the pope could choose to canonize, said Miranda. Why not pick Bartolome De Las Casas, a 16th century bishop who was vocal about atrocities against Native Americans? She also suggested Francis consider Monseñor Óscar Romero, who criticized the Salvadoran government's human rights record during the country's civil war and was assassinated.

Certainly.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It would be somewhat socially awkward up in Heaven if someone who caused Native American abuses and someone who fought against them both got canonized and had to sit at the same table.

 

[Keith&Co.]

It would be somewhat socially awkward up in Heaven if someone who caused Native American abuses and someone who fought against them both got canonized and had to sit at the same table.

No more than those saints from the Inquisition sitting at the table with anyone who wasn't allowed to burn the heretics.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It would be somewhat socially awkward up in Heaven if someone who caused Native American abuses and someone who fought against them both got canonized and had to sit at the same table.

God is very mysterious.

 

[Perspicuo]

God is so NOT mysterious, Joedad. God is "Me, me, me, me, me!" He doesn't give a shit if you think he contradicts himself or you have the fossils. He's just a spoiled crybaby with the power to send you to hell and get a hard-on from intense suffering.

How interesting, after so many books in the Bible, the character ends up being just that by accident, because I don't think that was the intention of any of the authors. The same could be said of the weird personalities of other characters, like Superman and Obi-Wan Kenobi... this last one who started amazingly wise (Lucas' intention) into a miserable liar in the next movie (scatterbrained serendipity).

 

[cornbread_r2]

As the old saying goes: The Franciscans went to California to do good -- and they did very well indeed.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I'm too lazy to look up the mystic power of sainthood, so I'll ask if anyone knows:
1- Saints can initiate miracles if you pray to them -- and what else?
2- They apparently have this power before sainthood is conferred on them -- so is sainthood simply recognition from those still living their temporal life on earth, or does sainthood give the saint additional powers?
3- It's permissible to pray to any dead person, on the theory that he/she might be a saint? And this isn't heretical, in any way? You could pray to Evita Peron or Spencer Tracy, and try your luck?
I feel so deliciously silly asking these questions!! It's like watching some kids playing a super-dumb role-playing game with a faux-Medieval subtext and asking them what the rules are.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I'm too lazy to look up the mystic power of sainthood, so I'll ask if anyone knows:
1- Saints can initiate miracles if you pray to them -- and what else?

They are in a position to intercede with God on your behalf. If a saint is your patron, then it's like you know someone at the State Department when you ahve passport issues.

2- They apparently have this power before sainthood is conferred on them -- so is sainthood simply recognition from those still living their temporal life on earth, or does sainthood give the saint additional powers?

They have to demonstrate their power to perform miracles so that the RCC can canonize them. Calling them a saint is simply recognitoin of power God has already gived to them.

3- It's permissible to pray to any dead person, on the theory that he/she might be a saint?

No. With saints, it's better to phrase is as praying THROUGH the saint. All prayers are to God, but you're asking the Saint to endorse your memo and maybe call God's attention to your situatoin.

And this isn't heretical, in any way? You could pray to Evita Peron or Spencer Tracy, and try your luck?

If you're praying TO them, you're granting them authority they don't have. Everyone in the Saints is merely part of the intercessor program. There's us, sinners, there's the RCC between us and God, there are saints between us and God and there are angels (archangels, seraphim, cherubim, thrones, and the other five or six flavors of angels) between us and God. If you're praying to Spencer Tracy, you're declaring he is an independent contractor, not part of the hierarchy.

I feel so deliciously silly asking these questions!! It's like watching some kids playing a super-dumb role-playing game with a faux-Medieval subtext and asking them what the rules are.

No worse than asking a member of Eastern Star what the star signifies, or asking a Mormon what the special underwear is for...

 

[Perspicuo]

No.

You pray to the saint. I was Catholic and everyone around me still is. Believe me, you pray to the saint. The theology says saints intercede but in reality, saints are magical. "Saint Anthony, please help me find my keys!" "Saint Jude, help Brian leave drugs." Catholicism can't work without saints. Because apparently God is too stingy and busy to help you. God may be the summum bonum ("supreme good") of theology, but in paractice he's a cold, distant father figure. You need Mary, the maternal figure, who is sympathetic and kindhearted, the one to go to if you want things done. Like an actual mommy!

(When I was a kid, it never made sense to me. Step one in leaving the fold, I guess.)

 

[Keith&Co.]

No.

You pray to the saint. I was Catholic and everyone around me still is. Believe me, you pray to the saint.

Well, the woman at Catholic Marriage School was quite insistant that this is heresy. They didn't want me teaching the kids to ask St. Ignatz for direct action, just name-dropping. Because that was almost as evil as teaching them birth control.

 

[Perspicuo]

No.

You pray to the saint. I was Catholic and everyone around me still is. Believe me, you pray to the saint.

Well, the woman at Catholic Marriage School was quite insistant that this is heresy. They didn't want me teaching the kids to ask St. Ignatz for direct action, just name-dropping. Because that was almost as evil as teaching them birth control.

Ah, that's American Catholicism, looking into the mirror of Evangelicalism, so you can expect that. I was raised in the US, so that might explain me not getting the Virgin and the Saints, also.

 

[Potoooooooo]

from a Native American newspaper