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Absolute thought

skepticalbip said:
No Robots said:
skepticalbip said:
No Robots said:
I agree that mind without matter is absurd. My point is that matter without mind is equally absurd.
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Do you have something against water, rocks, etc.?
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Not at all. What I'm saying is that mind is a universal property, present in all matter.
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Interesting concept but I don't buy it. A universe that is restricted by universal laws makes sense to me but a conscious universe doesn't.
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Hylozoism. A pre-Socratic speculation from Greek philosophy. Everthing is alive. Rocks want to fall downwards if dropped. Magnets have souls. Etc. Ancient woo woo.
Aristotle's physics and metaphysics is filled with claims that these things are based on divinity. The movement of heavenly bodies are circular because circular motion is divine. ("On The Heavens"). Old errors never die. They infest metaphysics and philosophy.
 
Physics has made clear for over a century now that matter does not have any kind of absolute existence. Logically, that leaves only thought as the absolute basis of existence.
 
At the bottom of matter is energy. Energy is not thought, nor is energy conscious. That is avey questionable claim without any evidence to suport these claims other than the loaded word "must".
 
No Robots said:
Physics has made clear for over a century now that matter does not have any kind of absolute existence. Logically, that leaves only thought as the absolute basis of existence.
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Thought occurs via electrical impulses. Electrical impulses occur via matter. Thought isn't some nebulous thing that exists outside of science.
 
No Robots said:
I agree that mind without matter is absurd. My point is that matter without mind is equally absurd.
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Well, that doesn't make sense. There is case where matter has mind as an emergent quality, but there is plenty of matter around the universe that has no mind.
 
ramoss said:
No Robots said:
I agree that mind without matter is absurd. My point is that matter without mind is equally absurd.
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Well, that doesn't make sense. There is case where matter has mind as an emergent quality, but there is plenty of matter around the universe that has no mind.
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We had some orange matter without a mind for four years in the white house.
 
No Robots said:
Physics has made clear for over a century now that matter does not have any kind of absolute existence. Logically, that leaves only thought as the absolute basis of existence.
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define "absolute existence".
 
No Robots said:
Physics has made clear for over a century now that matter does not have any kind of absolute existence. Logically, that leaves only thought as the absolute basis of existence.
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What physics has made clear is that there must be some sort of observer of every event.. That observer does not have to be a living entity. It can be any object (or field) responding to another object or field,
 
lostone said:
No Robots said:
Physics has made clear for over a century now that matter does not have any kind of absolute existence. Logically, that leaves only thought as the absolute basis of existence.
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What physics has made clear is that there must be some sort of observer of every event.. That observer does not have to be a living entity. It can be any object (or field) responding to another object or field,
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Not quite.

It is more like the observer and the observed form a single system.

Put a glass thermometer into a pot of water and the temperate includes the mass of the thermometer. The act of observation(aka measurement) disturbs the system. Adding the thermometer changes the temperature of the water.

There is no completely isolated detached observer.
 
From The mystery of space; a study of the hyperspace movement in the light of the evolution of new psychic faculties and an inquiry into the genesis and essential nature of space by Robert T. Browne

The attainment of space-consciousness or the space mind, which contrives the understanding of the identity of mind and space also annihilates the consciousness of space as a separate notion from the mind. Once the Thinker's consciousness has arisen to that state where it perceives its unity with space all sense of separateness is lost. Just as when two molecules of hydrogen uniting with one molecule of oxygen to form a new compound lose their identity in the new realization of unity, so does the consciousness when by the alchemy of psychogenesis it becomes identified with space, not only lose its identity as such, but also any consciousness whatever that space exists as something separate and distinct from itself. Imagine the whole of the duration aspect of kosmogenesis crowded into an infinitesimal instant and the bulk of all matter, suns, stars, worlds and planets, condensed into a space less than the magnitude of an hydrogen ion and in this way a symbol of what it may mean to attain unto absolute knowledge or unto the space-mind, may be obtained.
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It is not given to everyone to attain cosmic consciousness.
 
In the 70s I heard somebody say 'Cosmic consciousness is when you are in the movie not just watching the movie'.

Of course metaphor for self awareness of your existence and your place in world. Nothing supernatural about it. Are you just reacting to the world yiu are without any real conscious thought or are you fully conscious and aware.

In Buddhism I read it is like becoming fully awake from a dream.

All metaphors for the same psychology.

One has to comsidier the possibility that maybe it is you who does not 'get it'.

'God' is a psychology.

I got dem old cosmic blues again mama.
 
DeCasseres:

The eating, drinking, sexual man, submerged in passion and emotion and clamped in the interminable trivial, can have no notion of the fact that he is only a by-product, an experiment in the hands of some evolving principle the aim of which is yet unguessed.

The billions that come and go across the earth are not, properly speaking, living at all, since they have not super-consciousness; they have no perception of their irrelativity to the eternal mystery that surrounds us, since they are the marionettes of reflex action.

The condition of the vast hordes of men and women that rise from embryo and end in senility, having accomplished exactly what the ape and the bee and crab accomplish with infinitely less noise, is not as pitiful as it is ridiculous.
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Those who have the propensity for cosmic consciousness must fight against the unconscious mob.
 
The cosmic consciousness mythical mumbo jumbo 'mob'.

Living in a world of quotes and profound revelations. When in doubt look up a quote, unconscious conditioned reactions.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
"That's not even wrong."
- Wolfgang Pauli

There is a lot of that in this thread.
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In his discussions with Carl Jung, Pauli developed an ontological theory that has been dubbed the "Pauli–Jung Conjecture" and has been seen a kind of dual-aspect theory. The theory holds that there is "a psychophysically neutral reality" and that mental and physical aspects are derivative of this reality. Pauli thought that elements of quantum physics pointed to a deeper reality that might explain the mind/matter gap and wrote, "we must postulate a cosmic order of nature beyond our control to which both the outward material objects and the inward images are subject."--Wikipedia
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The psychic dead are always trying to enlist the psychic living in their desire to kill the psychic living.
 
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