Amazon Woes

[Rhea]

Are you implying that they pay so badly that you NEED the raise you’d get from peeing in a bottle?

You seem to think peeing in a bottle is something horrible.

To some of us it's a very minor thing, especially for guys as our anatomy makes it easier.

Peeing in a bottle is not difficult and I have no problem doing it when I need to. But I would not want to “need to” for a salary in a corporation where the CEO is the richest man on the planet. That would not be appropriate in any way.

 

[Trausti]

What do UPS/FedEx drivers do?

 

[ZiprHead]

What do UPS/FedEx drivers do?

UPS management has been hassling drivers in some areas about going off their route to use bathroom facilities and even for going to the bathroom when they’re not on their break. Is this happening in your area? Let us know and find out your rights under federal law.
UPS drivers have the right to go to the bathroom when you need to use it, not just on lunches or breaks.

This right is protected under OSHA regulation 9CFR Toilet facilities.1910.141(c)(1).

The second part of the rule protects drivers and other workers who don’t work at a central facility. It says drivers must have “have transportation immediately available to nearby toilet facilities.” Note the word “immediate”—OSHA says that when you gotta go, you get to go.

http://makeupsdeliver.org/when-you-gotta-go/#:~:text=UPS%20drivers%20have%20the%20right,work%20at%20a%20central%20facility.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What do UPS/FedEx drivers do?

Exactly. This is an issue with drivers in general, not specifically Amazon.

 

[Rhea]

What do UPS/FedEx drivers do?

Exactly. This is an issue with drivers in general, not specifically Amazon.

Yes, exactly. It’s a problem for drivers. It’s not some, “oh they can just pee in a botle” situation.

 

[Trausti]

What do UPS/FedEx drivers do?

Exactly. This is an issue with drivers in general, not specifically Amazon.

Yes, exactly. It’s a problem for drivers. It’s not some, “oh they can just pee in a botle” situation.

The pee in bottle is pretty standard; my old man did that when he was a long-haul trucker for a bit. But whatever solution UPS/FedEx does ought to work for Amazon. I think they give their folks some leeway to pee. I know in the downtown offices I've worked at it is not uncommon to see them use the office/building potty.

 

[barbos]

Su-34 pilots don't need to pee in a bottle, there is a toilet on a plane. There is also a kitchen.

 

[laughing dog]

What do UPS/FedEx drivers do?

Exactly. This is an issue with drivers in general, not specifically Amazon.

It is not an issue for drivers - it is an "issue" for their employers. I have a brother who is driver, and he has never had to pee in a bottle.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, exactly. It’s a problem for drivers. It’s not some, “oh they can just pee in a botle” situation.

The pee in bottle is pretty standard; my old man did that when he was a long-haul trucker for a bit. But whatever solution UPS/FedEx does ought to work for Amazon. I think they give their folks some leeway to pee. I know in the downtown offices I've worked at it is not uncommon to see them use the office/building potty.

UPS and FedEx also do the pee-in-a-bottle bit. Or occasionally in inappropriate places that makes the news.

It's only a problem if you don't dispose of it properly later.

 

[Gospel]

You'd think carriers would implement a portable potty system so they can internally or VIA a third party service provide toilets inside the vehicles for situations like these and have a department that handles emptying them at the terminal. Hmm (rubs hands together) this might be a business opertunity.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You'd think carriers would implement a portable potty system so they can internally or VIA a third party service provide toilets inside the vehicles for situations like these and have a department that handles emptying them at the terminal. Hmm (rubs hands together) this might be a business opertunity.

Probably too much biohazard red tape involved.

 

[Gospel]

You'd think carriers would implement a portable potty system so they can internally or VIA a third party service provide toilets inside the vehicles for situations like these and have a department that handles emptying them at the terminal. Hmm (rubs hands together) this might be a business opertunity.

Probably too much biohazard red tape involved.

Carriers & Amazon are very familiar with biohazards and red tape. I think it's more likely to be seen as not profitable than anything else. However, if drivers start taking dumps on as well as peeing on packages they might change their minds.

 

[lpetrich]

I more recently created Inside Amazon's Warehouses on Amazon's warehouse management, like forcing workers out after only a few years on the job.

But I got this news on that Amazon unionization effort.

Ezra Kaplan on Twitter: "BREAKING: An federal officer has recommended a new union election at Amazon in Bessemer, AL. The e-commerce giant is accused of illegal interference in the mail-in election. (link)" / Twitter

Labor official recommends scrapping failed Amazon union election, union says - POLITICO - "Both the company and the union will have time to respond to the filings before a final decision is issued, a process that could span several weeks."

A federal labor official recommended Monday that the National Labor Relations Board should scrap the results of an unsuccessful union election at an Amazon facility in Bessemer, Ala., after finding that the tech giant interfered and violated workers’ labor rights, according to the union.

A hearing officer in the NLRB’s Atlanta office who presided over the hearing determined that Amazon "violated labor law," the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union said in a statement, and is recommending a new election.

 

[lpetrich]

Date: Jun 15, 2021
Amazon Execs Worry About Turnover, Running Out of Workers: Report
noting
Inside Amazon's Employment Machine - The New York Times

with response
Read The Dispossessed by Ursula K. LeGuin on Twitter: "How can anyone defend this? ..." / Twitter

How can anyone defend this?

Here's the full article. And be sure to support Amazon unionization efforts like @BAmazonUnion, @amazonlabor, and @AUchicagoland.

I think it's important to be clear that this is not capitalism run amok, this is just capitalism. This is what happens in capitalist systems. Companies gain power and move towards monopolies. Governments, under pressure from the people, do at times intervene, but.. without a fundamental change to the nature of the system, without workers taking power, the system will inevitably move back in this direction. So no more reform, we need worker ownership and control and a full system change.

Then
Melanie D'Arrigo for NY3 on Twitter: "The fact that Amazon is worried that they'll run out of potential employees to burn out instead of the employees they've burnt out tells you everything you need to know about why Amazon workers need a union." / Twitter

Then
Brittany for Congress on Twitter: "Amazon " / Twitter

 

[Jarhyn]

Date: Jun 15, 2021
Amazon Execs Worry About Turnover, Running Out of Workers: Report
noting
Inside Amazon's Employment Machine - The New York Times

with response
Read The Dispossessed by Ursula K. LeGuin on Twitter: "How can anyone defend this? ..." / Twitter

How can anyone defend this?

Here's the full article. And be sure to support Amazon unionization efforts like @BAmazonUnion, @amazonlabor, and @AUchicagoland.

I think it's important to be clear that this is not capitalism run amok, this is just capitalism. This is what happens in capitalist systems. Companies gain power and move towards monopolies. Governments, under pressure from the people, do at times intervene, but.. without a fundamental change to the nature of the system, without workers taking power, the system will inevitably move back in this direction. So no more reform, we need worker ownership and control and a full system change.

Then
Melanie D'Arrigo for NY3 on Twitter: "The fact that Amazon is worried that they'll run out of potential employees to burn out instead of the employees they've burnt out tells you everything you need to know about why Amazon workers need a union." / Twitter

Then
Brittany for Congress on Twitter: "Amazon " / Twitter

I can say for my own part every time I get a sniff from Amazon, and it's 2-3 times a week, and every time I let them know that I'm not going to follow up because they are anticompetitive and an ethically bankrupt corporation.

I hope they are starved at ALL levels for what they have been doing

 

[lpetrich]

I had another thread: Inside Amazon's Warehouses | Internet Infidels Discussion Board

Amazon Has Received $4.7 Billion in Subsidies Globally, Watchdog Says - "The report highlights how little is known about the cost of Amazon’s expansion to taxpayers around the planet."

Amazon has received at least $4.7 billion in tax breaks globally during the past 10 years for warehouses, data centers, offices, call centers, and film production projects, according to a new report by a watchdog group and a global labor federation.

While the vast majority of these tax breaks—$4.1 billion—are for projects in the United States, the new report tallies, for the first time, subsidies Amazon has received beyond US borders, where Amazon has aggressively built out its Amazon Prime and data center network in recent years.

Among the $600 million in tax breaks received beyond the US borders are $15.6 million for an Amazon warehouse in Leipzig, Germany; $10.44 million for a Amazon warehouse in Fife, Scotland; $5.1 million for a warehouse in Asturias, Spain; $1.3 million for a warehouse near Lyon, France; $2.3 million for a call center in Edinburgh, Scotland; roughly $262 million for an Amazon Web Services data center in Montreal, Quebec; and roughly $180 million for an Amazon Web Services data center in Sao Paulo, Brazil.

But that $600 million is only the tip of the iceberg of Amazon’s tax breaks outside of the United States, the authors of the new report say. The authors identified 407 Amazon facilities in 13 countries “where evidence exists or there is reason to believe that Amazon has received public monies for its projects,” where full data is not available because of weak disclosure laws and practices.

“Because of poor disclosure practices in these countries, the costs of most such deals are hidden: the total is undoubtedly significantly higher,” the researchers write. Among the countries where the report’s authors found evidence or “reasons to believe” that Amazon has received subsidies from governments are Argentina, Bahrain, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, France, India, Mexico, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Spain, and the United Kingdom.

Seems like subsidy-sucking is a big part of Amazon's success.

Amazon was founded on a business model designed to avoid paying taxes. In 1994, Jeff Bezos selected Washington state as the place to set up his online bookstore, specifically because the state does not have sales taxes. In 2012, the company began pursuing tax abatements around the country, creating an office within its public policy department that specializes in winning tax subsidies. Since then, the report’s authors write Amazon has viewed the selection of the sites for its warehouses as “rent-seeking,” “generating profits based on political activity, rather than by becoming more efficient.”

In recent years, Amazon has become more sophisticated about keeping the value of the incentives it receives from governments throughout the years a secret, the report also says. And many of Amazon’s subsidy packages in the United States have also remained under wraps.

Not just subsidies, but also tax breaks.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, everyone wants all those high paying revolving door jobs that Amazon provides. Cleveland was on the verge of giving Amazon the Cavs and Browns franchises, as well as the first born of all the males. That is only slightly an exaggeration. Cleveland was willing to provide Amazon the tax income from the people working at Amazon (which is kind of why these things are supposed to happen because the city gets a cut of the income).

Amazon seems like such a paradox. Cities are willing to sacrifice everything to gain almost nothing but jobs which are not long-term.

 

[lpetrich]

Amazon Workers on Staten Island Vote to Unionize - The New York Times - "Despite heavy lobbying by the company, workers at the facility voted by a wide margin for a union. It was seen as a rebuke of the company’s treatment of its employees."

Employees cast 2,654 votes to be represented by Amazon Labor Union and 2,131 against, giving the union a win by roughly 10 percentage points, according to an initial tally released by the National Labor Relations Board. More than 8,300 workers at the building, the only Amazon fulfillment center in New York City, were eligible to vote.

The win on Staten Island could herald a new era for labor unions in the United States, which saw the portion of workers in unions drop last year to 10.3 percent, the lowest rate in decades, despite widespread labor shortages and pockets of successful labor activity.

...
The Staten Island outcome came on the heels of what is trending toward a narrow loss at a large Amazon warehouse in Alabama in a campaign brought by the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union. The vote is close enough that the results will not be known for several weeks as contested ballots are litigated.

... As a recent string of union victories at Starbucks has shown, wins at one location can provide encouragement at others.

Amazon hired voraciously over the past two years and now has 1.6 million employees globally. But it has been plagued by high turnover, and the pandemic gave employees a growing sense of power while fueling worries about workplace safety.

I saw yesterday the vote being ahead and it seemed too good to be true. I was concerned that it wouldn't last.

 

[lpetrich]

Amazon fired him – now he’s trying to unionize 5,000 workers in New York | Amazon | The Guardian

Christian Smalls is taking on the fiercely anti-union colossus , convinced that a union of only Amazon workers is the smartest way to rally Amazon employees

Christian Smalls has taken on the biggest challenge of his life. Still smarting from when Amazon fired him last year, the 32-year-old is spearheading an effort to unionize more than 5,000 workers at four Amazon facilities in Staten Island, including a giant warehouse.

Smalls is taking a highly unusual route in pursuing this goal; he has founded an independent union, the Amazon Labor Union, convinced that a new union comprising only Amazon workers is the smartest way to rally Amazon employees behind a union after the crushing defeat of an effort to unionize an Amazon warehouse in Alabama earlier this year.

He seems to have won so far.
Steven Greenhouse on Twitter: "When Christian Smalls ..." / Twitter

When Christian Smalls & other current & former Amazon workers began organizing Amazon in Staten Island last year, many said his chances of winning were infinitesimal.

But after today's count, 1518 to 1154, a win for Smalls' union is inevitable—That's huge

Amazon had fired Smalls, & its top executives planned to smear him as "not smart or articulate"

"They said they’d make me the whole face of the union effort against Amazon,” Smalls told me last June. “I’m trying to make them eat their words”

SMALLS HAS MADE THEM EAT THEIR WORDS

Smalls said the secret of success for a union drive like the one in Staten Island is worker-to-worker organizing -- workers who know the stresses & strains of working at Amazon talking to other workers.

That's a lot like the secret of success in the Starbucks unionization wins

These successes seem like labor unionization returning to its roots.

Steven Greenhouse on Twitter: "Four Dumb Things ..." / Twitter

Four Dumb Things Amazon Did That Help Explain the Union's Big Win on Staten Island

1) Amazon got the police to arrest Christian Smalls & 2 other organizers for going on Amazon property to deliver food to Amazon workers. Amazon looked heartless & turned Smalls into a hero.

2) While Smalls & his union said their goal was minimum pay of $30 an hour, Amazon kept telling workers that with a union, they could end up with decreased pay

With unemployment so low & wages rising, workers saw Amazon's message as lame & saw the union's message as VERY HOPEFUL

3) Amazon fired Smalls for violating social distancing rules after Smalls led a protest asserting Amazon was doing far too little to protect workers against Covid— including not doing enough social distancing of workers. That gave Smalls huge cred & made Amazon look hypocritical.

4) Amazon's general counsel—at a meeting Bezos & other senior execs attended—called for smearing the recently fired Smalls by calling him "not smart or articulate"

That was widely seen as racist & won support for Smalls among the Staten Island warehouse's many workers of color

 

[lpetrich]

Amazon Spent $4.3 Million On Anti-Union Consultants Last Year | HuffPost Impact

When outside consultants speak directly to workers about unionization, both the employer and the consultant must disclose the arrangement to the federal government. Amazon’s consultants submitted filings to the Labor Department during the organizing campaigns last year showing many of them were each paid $3,200 a day for their work.

...
Unions call the speeches given by consultants “captive audience meetings,” because attendance is typically required. The meetings tend to follow similar scripts, with consultants calling the union a “third party,” focusing on the cost of union dues, and talking up the prospect of work stoppages. Such meetings are legal.

In response to Amazon’s disclosures, Stuart Appelbaum, president of the RWDSU, said the company “spares no expense in trying to crush unions and interfere with what is supposed to be their employees’ choice.”

“Captive audience meetings should be outlawed in the United States,” he said.

Consultants like to say they are neutral third parties just providing information, but they are hired expressly to defeat unionization efforts.