America's factories just suffered their worst month in a decade

[Tom Sawyer]

Maybe so, but instability (not to be confused with an occasional spike in downward volidity) is inherent to all systems.

In straight speak, i’m defending US capitalism.

Why? US capitalism died in the Fall of 2008. It failed, it failed hard. It crashed the global economy.

2008 wasn't due to capitalism, but socialism. The feds were buying up the mortgages. In the name of non-discrimination they defined crap as quality, the unscrupulous--completely predictably--responded by selling crap. It's a prime example of the dangers of disconnecting authority from consequences.

Ya, fucking banks over-leveraging themselves. I blame the goddamned government for that too. You can't expect the naive and innocent investment bankers to be able to read balance sheets for their own companies or anything.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Surely Trump knows "how the system works" and is "the only one who can fix it;" he -- sorry -- He said as much. Just like the day one of his boneheaded tweets caused the stock market to barf up 700 points.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Maybe so, but instability (not to be confused with an occasional spike in downward volidity) is inherent to all systems.

In straight speak, i’m defending US capitalism.

Why? US capitalism died in the Fall of 2008. It failed, it failed hard. It crashed the global economy.

2008 wasn't due to capitalism, but socialism. The feds were buying up the mortgages.

So why did AIG, Bearn Sterns, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs either go out of business or dangerously on the edge of insolvency?

In the name of non-discrimination they defined crap as quality, the unscrupulous--completely predictably--responded by selling crap. It's a prime example of the dangers of disconnecting authority from consequences.

*balloons*

You have claimed this every time this comes up, but you have never actually shown evidence that suggests minority loans sank the economy. While minority mortgages had a higher default percentage, it wasn't exactly through the roof. Nor has it been shown that the aggregate losses for minority mortgages were higher than non-minority mortgage foreclosures.

 

[PyramidHead]

Reminder that in a capitalist economy, the government acts on behalf of capital when it injects large amounts of money into the economy, when it buys up bad loans, when it finances infrastructure projects that allow for commerce, when it grants land to developers, when it raises or lowers taxes to stimulate supply or demand, and when it modifies interest rates to encourage borrowing. Because capitalism regularly lapses into crisis without government interventions, these are as much a part of its function as private investment.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Reminder that in a capitalist economy, the government acts on behalf of capital when it injects large amounts of money into the economy, when it buys up bad loans, when it finances infrastructure projects that allow for commerce, when it grants land to developers, when it raises or lowers taxes to stimulate supply or demand, and when it modifies interest rates to encourage borrowing. Because capitalism regularly lapses into crisis without government interventions, these are as much a part of its function as private investment.

Yea, capitalism creates booms and busts. Both are temporary. The booms generally last far longer than the busts. But the worst capitalistic busts are better than socialism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

2008 wasn't due to capitalism, but socialism. The feds were buying up the mortgages. In the name of non-discrimination they defined crap as quality, the unscrupulous--completely predictably--responded by selling crap. It's a prime example of the dangers of disconnecting authority from consequences.

Ya, fucking banks over-leveraging themselves. I blame the goddamned government for that too. You can't expect the naive and innocent investment bankers to be able to read balance sheets for their own companies or anything.

The fundamental problem was the federal government declaring shit to be quality and buying it up in large amounts. Without that what the banks did would have come out ok.

 

[ZiprHead]

2008 wasn't due to capitalism, but socialism. The feds were buying up the mortgages. In the name of non-discrimination they defined crap as quality, the unscrupulous--completely predictably--responded by selling crap. It's a prime example of the dangers of disconnecting authority from consequences.

Ya, fucking banks over-leveraging themselves. I blame the goddamned government for that too. You can't expect the naive and innocent investment bankers to be able to read balance sheets for their own companies or anything.

The fundamental problem was the federal government declaring shit to be quality and buying it up in large amounts. Without that what the banks did would have come out ok.

The government didn't do that. How many times do we have to debunk your "It was the governments fault" before it sinks into your long-term memory?

he Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission found that in 2008, GSE loans had a delinquency rate of 6.2 percent, due to their traditional underwriting and qualification requirements, compared with 28.3 percent for non-GSE or private label loans, which do not have these requirements.Apr 13, 2017

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/reports/2017/04/13/430424/2008-housing-crisis/

 

[PyramidHead]

Reminder that in a capitalist economy, the government acts on behalf of capital when it injects large amounts of money into the economy, when it buys up bad loans, when it finances infrastructure projects that allow for commerce, when it grants land to developers, when it raises or lowers taxes to stimulate supply or demand, and when it modifies interest rates to encourage borrowing. Because capitalism regularly lapses into crisis without government interventions, these are as much a part of its function as private investment.

Yea, capitalism creates booms and busts. Both are temporary. The booms generally last far longer than the busts. But the worst capitalistic busts are better than socialism.

Ah right, the Great Depression, caused by the first world war of imperialist capitalism and a major driver of the second, is so much better than free health care and housing for everyone

 

[Worldtraveller]

Trump can't be blamed for a recessionary cycle, but he is fucking with the Fed rate (WHIP inflation now boys!) and tariffs, screwing with global trade. That makes it harder to separate the portion that would be his fault from what isn't his fault. The economy seems to be slowing down.

I agree.

The Turmp trade tariffs were and are not really about the economy anyway. Its more about bringing back dignity for America's middle class and the reduction of the opioid drug crises in rust belt states.

*spit take*

Stupid as they are, those are the talking points Faux Noise gave him to repeat. Can't blame RVonse for being a good little bot. (or is that sarcasm too, it's so hard to tell these days.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The fundamental problem was the federal government declaring shit to be quality and buying it up in large amounts. Without that what the banks did would have come out ok.

The government didn't do that. How many times do we have to debunk your "It was the governments fault" before it sinks into your long-term memory?

he Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission found that in 2008, GSE loans had a delinquency rate of 6.2 percent, due to their traditional underwriting and qualification requirements, compared with 28.3 percent for non-GSE or private label loans, which do not have these requirements.Apr 13, 2017

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/reports/2017/04/13/430424/2008-housing-crisis/

The fundamental issue was the redefinition. The market then bought and sold the crap as if it was quality.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

*spit take*

Stupid as they are, those are the talking points Faux Noise gave him to repeat. Can't blame RVonse for being a good little bot. (or is that sarcasm too, it's so hard to tell these days.)

I doubt RVonse finds much to agree with Fox News.

 

[ZiprHead]

The government didn't do that. How many times do we have to debunk your "It was the governments fault" before it sinks into your long-term memory?



https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/reports/2017/04/13/430424/2008-housing-crisis/

The fundamental issue was the redefinition. The market then bought and sold the crap as if it was quality.

And it was the rating agencies that did the redefinitions, not the government.

 

[RVonse]

*spit take*

Stupid as they are, those are the talking points Faux Noise gave him to repeat. Can't blame RVonse for being a good little bot. (or is that sarcasm too, it's so hard to tell these days.)

I doubt RVonse finds much to agree with Fox News.

Jimmy is exactly correct again.

Worldtraveller, the talking points if you want to call them that come directly from the source, Steve Bannon who used to be Trumps advisor. Steve is an extremely intelligent individual IMO.

There are also numerous videos of him speaking on Youtube. (And I would list some of them here for your enlightenment but Im pretty sure you would not bother watching what he has to say anyway.) Your mind is already made up.

 

[RVonse]

The government didn't do that. How many times do we have to debunk your "It was the governments fault" before it sinks into your long-term memory?



https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/reports/2017/04/13/430424/2008-housing-crisis/

The fundamental issue was the redefinition. The market then bought and sold the crap as if it was quality.

I believe you are both correct.

ZipHead is correct that the banks seriously failed to manage their business properly and would not have survived. That was not the government's fault. Nor was it the government's fault that they had to become the lenders of last resort in order to avoid Depression 2.

But Loren is correct it was the government fault but not for why he thinks it was the government's fault. It was the government's fault that our politicians allowed laws like Glass Steagall to be repealed. And it was also directly our government's fault we have allowed our currency off the gold standard (1971) which was the precursor to later asset bubbles and a speculators economy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I doubt RVonse finds much to agree with Fox News.

Jimmy is exactly correct again.

Worldtraveller, the talking points if you want to call them that come directly from the source, Steve Bannon who used to be Trumps advisor. Steve is an extremely intelligent individual IMO.

There are also numerous videos of him speaking on Youtube. (And I would list some of them here for your enlightenment but Im pretty sure you would not bother watching what he has to say anyway.) Your mind is already made up.

Nationalist Steve Bannon. The guy that got lucky getting Syn rights to Seinfeld?

 

[ZiprHead]

Nationalist Steve Bannon. The guy that got lucky getting Syn rights to Seinfeld?

Wut?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nationalist Steve Bannon. The guy that got lucky getting Syn rights to Seinfeld?

Wut?

Bannon was in Hollywood. He did some work, no idea what, so his compensation was syn rights to some shows. One of those shows... Seinfeld.

 

[RVonse]

Nationalist Steve Bannon. The guy that got lucky getting Syn rights to Seinfeld?

I would call him populous Steve Bannon. And yes he is very rich and he is also very intelligent.

 

[ZiprHead]

Nationalist Steve Bannon. The guy that got lucky getting Syn rights to Seinfeld?

Wut?

Bannon was in Hollywood. He did some work, no idea what, so his compensation was syn rights to some shows. One of those shows... Seinfeld.

Huh, did not know that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Bannon was in Hollywood. He did some work, no idea what, so his compensation was syn rights to some shows. One of those shows... Seinfeld.

Huh, did not know that.

I might be wrong that he is rich solely from Seinfeld.