Atheists and Religious people. Are their views changing?

[southernhybrid]

When I was a young atheist, most atheists were in the closet, so when I met another atheist, like a nurse I worked with in SC, it was really special. Still we had no community, rituals, or goals to keep us together and help us expand.

Then came what I call the Angry Atheist Era, originally known as, The New Atheist Movement. ( I think ) That era brought atheism out into the open more, but it was fairly abrasive, at least at times and once again, it left us without much to give us joy or community. In a lot of ways, it was just a release of anger that a lot of us needed after being preached to by theists all of our lives. Still, organizations did increase at that time and it did become easier to find atheist companions and friends. I was never an abrasive atheist, but my atheism was a part of me, and I was always open about it. I did have Christian friends but saw no value in religion during that period in my life. I enjoyed arguing about religion in a congenial way if possible. Christians who wore their religion on their sleeves, or wore their crosses around their necks were annoying to me.

But, as I've aged, I've become far more tolerant towards religion, with the exception of the theocratic White Christian Nationalist movement, although evangelicals like my late mother, can be my friends, as people like her were able to cherry pick the sweetest cherries while probably not dwelling too much on the hell fire and damnation nonsense. We had more in common than not.

Now, I see plenty of value in religion, yet easily remain a strong atheist. I understand more about the attraction of religious mythology and no longer feel annoyed when a Christian friend uses Christian terminology in a positive way.

But, instead of being too long and wordy, I'll link to what I thought was a beautiful piece by Herb Silverman. Are we entering a new age where liberal and moderate believers and atheists can see some value in religion, instead of only attacking every aspect of it, and making assumptions about religious people?

https://thehumanist.com/magazine/winter-2024/commentary/herbs-corner-what-is-wrong-with-atheists

The following are some of my favorite parts of his article. I could relate because I had a very positive experience when I visited a Black church for a close Black friend.

I can’t honestly say that prayer is a waste of time, based on an experience I had on June 17, 2015. A white gunman had just murdered nine innocent black people gathered at the historic Emanuel AME Church, three blocks from where I live in Charleston, South Carolina. This church was once a secret meeting place for African-Americans who wanted to end slavery at a time when laws in Charleston banned all-black church gatherings.

The day after the murders, I attended a vigil at that church, where the entire community was invited to pray for peace, understanding, and healing. As an atheist I don’t pray, but I support those goals. I thought of the anti-war song Lay Down by Melanie, and the line “Some came to sing, some came to pray, some came to keep the dark away.” I was there to help keep the dark away by showing support for a beleaguered African-American community.

The service conducted by African-American pastors was heartfelt. During prayers I stood politely, but didn’t read aloud words I didn’t believe. I did applaud when one minister told the crowd, “Pray, but also get off your knees and work to improve our community.” I was amazed to see people singing, clapping, and dancing in the aisles with smiles during this tragic time. I could see that the members of the audience felt transformed.

Holding hands with our neighbors at the end of the service, we sang “We Shall Overcome.” I had never thought of this as a hymn, but it reminded me of when I sang it in the 1960s during civil rights marches and Vietnam War protests. We were asked to continue holding hands as we prayed to Jesus. I was holding hands with my wife, Sharon, on my left and a black man on my right as the minister prayed for Jesus to get rid of any hate in our hearts and replace it with love. As it turned out, I did come to sing, pray, and keep the dark away.

Later, I talked to people who also attended the service. Not all were religious, and some appreciated my being there, knowing I’m an atheist. I think it’s important to seek common ground with religious folks, which can help us gain their respect.

Most people of all religions and none look for community and folks with whom they have much in common. We need to find ways to meet the emotional needs of theists without sacrificing the integrity and intellectual honesty of atheists. We should not shame or mock people with religious beliefs, no matter how silly they seem to us. When we make fun of their beliefs, we come across as mean, ignoring the needs of people who don’t understand why life is the way it is. They are seeking comfort and solace. If we don’t offer that, we won’t be successful in dealing with them.

And finally, I think the following is true. I know from experience that it's hard to herd the cats. And yeah. I know not everyone feels the need for community, but then why are you here and how hard has it been to keep this place going, while losing so many members into the unknown?

The category of “nones,” those with no particular religion, is the fasting growing demographic in the country, representing about thirty percent of Americans, and considerably higher among millennials. Unfortunately, organizing “nones” is more difficult than herding cats. My cats regularly put aside their personality differences, past grudges, and turf protection when I feed them cat crunchies. Can we come up with “none” crunchies?

It’s much harder to bring people together just because they are not interested in religion. We know there are many humanist and atheist groups that get together because they enjoy each other’s company, and often work on common causes. But I still don’t think communities created around secular activities offer people the same level of support as churches, temples, and mosques. We usually provide little solace in the face of death, no weekly charitable calls, and no sense of connection to an ancient heritage. We have no “one-stop shop” like a neighborhood church that goes back for generations.

So what can we do for people who have moved away or are moving away from religion? How can we welcome them into our community? We need a full spectrum of views and approaches to engage these folks.

 

[Coleman Smith]

Americans are becoming less religious

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

For me the OP asks a simple question. It asks if religion is the reason for community or if community is the reason for religion. Even the most hardcore atheist wants community and needs community to survive. Same goes for the most hardcore theist or believer. We all want and need acceptance and that should always be the focus. We reject people whom we perceive as not accepting us for what we are probably because at some level that constitutes a threat to our survival. And we are as competitive and primitive a species as any on the planet so killing to survive has never been difficult, even if that killing is passive. So the lesson is to grow up, overcome our instinctive fears and emotions, and expand that circle of community and of acceptance.

The biggest obstacle we face in doing that is that we all want to survive. None of us, not even the wealthiest, possess the resources to fix the world's problems. The Jesus story doesn't address that, it certainly doesn't address personal survival. Instead of addressing those real issues we all contend with every moment of our lives it tells us that personal survival isn't important and replaces personal survival with fantastic claims and stories about us all being immortal. Those fantastic stories are dopey, juvenile and unappealing to someone immediately concerned with personal and family survival. They are a waste of resources unless I am dopey enough to believe the unevidenced claims.

The great irony is that only those of us able to successfully address those fears, emotions and legitimate concerns we have about personal survival are able to take part in religion. For my parents and their generation religious community was initially a necessity but that clearly became a luxury. Now that luxury has disappeared almost entirely in my area. It was squandered. They were all just exclusive country clubs there for the benefit of members. The primary beneficiaries were the owners of those country clubs who enriched themselves and continue to do so.

Community does not need religion but religion absolutely does not survive without community. Community is vital. Religion is not. At least that's been my experience. Religions that are going to survive, at least in free societies, are religions that are able to expand their community boundaries.

 

[southernhybrid]

Americans are becoming less religious

The article not only mentioned that, it was one of the main points, which is why Silverman is suggesting we find a way that we atheists can build communities that will attract those who are leaving religion, while also showing respect for the good that organized religious groups do in the way of providing charity and emotional support etc. for their communities.

I'm going to meetup with my little atheist group tomorrow night and it's likely that a couple in the group are "nones" but they aren't atheists. They have theistic beliefs, but don't support organized religion. But, Silverman is right when he said that atheists are harder to herd than cats. I've been a member of at least 5 different groups. One totally disbanded. One is still fairly active, but the drive has become too much for us.That is the same for the Atlanta Freethought, which as far as I know is the oldest group in Atlanta metro and is still intact.

 

[southernhybrid]

For me the OP asks a simple question. It asks if religion is the reason for community or if community is the reason for religion. Even the most hardcore atheist wants community and needs community to survive. Same goes for the most hardcore theist or believer. We all want and need acceptance and that should always be the focus. We reject people whom we perceive as not accepting us for what we are probably because at some level that constitutes a threat to our survival. And we are as competitive and primitive a species as any on the planet so killing to survive has never been difficult, even if that killing is passive. So the lesson is to grow up, overcome our instinctive fears and emotions, and expand that circle of community and of acceptance.

The biggest obstacle we face in doing that is that we all want to survive. None of us, not even the wealthiest, possess the resources to fix the world's problems. The Jesus story doesn't address that, it certainly doesn't address personal survival. Instead of addressing those real issues we all contend with every moment of our lives it tells us that personal survival isn't important and replaces personal survival with fantastic claims and stories about us all being immortal. Those fantastic stories are dopey, juvenile and unappealing to someone immediately concerned with personal and family survival. They are a waste of resources unless I am dopey enough to believe the unevidenced claims.

The great irony is that only those of us able to successfully address those fears, emotions and legitimate concerns we have about personal survival are able to take part in religion. For my parents and their generation religious community was initially a necessity but that clearly became a luxury. Now that luxury has disappeared almost entirely in my area. It was squandered. They were all just exclusive country clubs there for the benefit of members. The primary beneficiaries were the owners of those country clubs who enriched themselves and continue to do so.

Community does not need religion but religion absolutely does not survive without community. Community is vital. Religion is not. At least that's been my experience. Religions that are going to survive, at least in free societies, are religions that are able to expand their community boundaries.

I agree with many of your points, although that wasn't really the question I was asking in the OP. I'm asking if atheists are becoming less angry, and abrasive toward religion and admitting that religious groups often provide valuable services, and purposes for their communities. I certainly agree that we don't or shouldn't need religion to have community, but at least where I live, religion is an extremely important part when it comes to providing charity and community etc. There are plenty of small, poor churches in my area, so I don't get your country club analogy. Even the horrible church I attended as a child, wan't like a country club. It was large group of heavily indoctrinated people who thought that anyone with different beliefs was headed for eternal torture. A country club would have been a nice alternative to that.

I think the UU Fellowships usually do a good job of providing community, while allowing any member to believe whatever feels right or true to them, as long as it's a very liberal interpretation of the religion. Atheists/humanist are welcome in UU groups. In fact, I've known quite a few atheists who were also members of UU groups but those groups are usually few and far between. There are none within 50 miles of me. Unitarians are known for doing charity work and providing opportunities for socialization for their members. That is more important to most of them than what they believe regarding religion.

I think there is a huge difference between extremist versions of religion, and very liberal versions. I have always considered the liberal theists to be my allies, as we usually share many of the same values and political ideologies. The different mythologies add some diversity.

I just liked and agreed with what David Silverman said in his piece, that we can embrace and sometimes even enjoy religious rituals without taking them to be literally true. I'm seeing more of this lately, and I think it's a positive thing. My husband and I swayed, and clapped to the music and some of the words, when we attended the little Black church recently. It was the power of the love that the people showed each other, along with the strong emotional release that I found attractive. I can understand why the Black church is so important to so many of its members due to its historical significance, and yet, I do know and have known several Black atheists, including one who is caring enough to attend church with his wife on most Sundays. He was a member of our now defunct Humanists of Georgia. I'm not that nice, but luckily I'm married to an atheist.

Silverman mentioned that we don't have a way to support people when they are dying. I don't know if anyone read the article that I linked in the thread about prisoners and their beliefs, but it was primarily about a Humanist chaplain who gave a lot of support to an atheist on death row, right up until the day he was executed. Perhaps if we had more Humanist chaplains, that would help. They can perform wedding ceremonies, funerals, provide hospice care to nonbelievers, as well as being chaplains in the military because we all know that there are atheists in foxholes. Humanism is a very idealistic philosophy. It just doesn't require any supernatural beliefs.

Even our online group has rules and moderators. I think every successful group needs some type of leaders or organizers to survive. In my experience, atheists don't usually like taking on these rolls. I found that to be the case when I ended up being treasurer of the now defunct humanist group for several years. Nobody wanted to do it, so I told them that somebody had to take over for me. We had the same president for years because nobody else would do that. I think that's the big question that Silverman was asking. Why are we so hard to organize, despite having the same needs for community that most all humans do? For years, I've joked that we need some Christians in our groups to help us learn to organize and keep the herd together, opening opportunities for those who are not only atheists but who no longer embrace a religious mythology but are in need of a supportive community.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I agree with many of your points, although that wasn't really the question I was asking in the OP. I'm asking if atheists are becoming less angry, and abrasive toward religion and admitting that religious groups often provide valuable services, and purposes for their communities.

Okay. I have become much more mellow over the years although that would never have happened without meeting like minded folk such as we have here. Before that I always felt like I was on the defensive, even had people run away in horror when I would tell them I'm atheist, not religious in any way. Now I take it all in stride without flinching. The answer to your question may lie in the fact that even religious people realize that there are lots of good folk who don't agree with their religious views. It's not been so terribly long ago that atheism was openly and systematically discriminated against. The bigots have been defanged so there isn't so much to fear, same as racism.

I have so many groups that I participate with that my life is literally overflowing with community. When I mentioned earlier that the churches of my youth were more like country clubs that what I meant because they were. When the membership and the money stopped the country clubs closed. And that was always the business plan from day one with all those churches. Your churches are obviously different.

 

[southernhybrid]

I agree with many of your points, although that wasn't really the question I was asking in the OP. I'm asking if atheists are becoming less angry, and abrasive toward religion and admitting that religious groups often provide valuable services, and purposes for their communities.

Okay. I have become much more mellow over the years although that would never have happened without meeting like minded folk such as we have here. Before that I always felt like I was on the defensive, even had people run away in horror when I would tell them I'm atheist, not religious in any way. Now I take it all in stride without flinching. The answer to your question may lie in the fact that even religious people realize that there are lots of good folk who don't agree with their religious views. It's not been so terribly long ago that atheism was openly and systematically discriminated against. The bigots have been defanged so there isn't so much to fear, same as racism.

I have so many groups that I participate with that my life is literally overflowing with community. When I mentioned earlier that the churches of my youth were more like country clubs that what I meant because they were. When the membership and the money stopped the country clubs closed. And that was always the business plan from day one with all those churches. Your churches are obviously different.

I am also less bothered by the religious than I was in the past and I have a few Christian friends who know I'm an atheist and don't care. Sadly, there are still some in the South that do demonize us, but if they get to know me, we usually become friendly, not close friends, but friendly without being bothered by our different beliefs. The friend who's church I attended knows that I don't go to church, but I've never told her I'm an atheist. She is poor and has a lot of struggles in life, yet she never complains to me and appreciates any little thing I do for her, so I've never found it necessary to tell her I don't believe in her god, as her beliefs are probably a big part of what keeps her from giving up. Maybe she'd get over it, but who knows.

I had been doing little things for another poor Christian, but somebody told her I was an atheist. and she not only cut me out of her life, ( no big loss to me ) she returned something I had bought for her that she needed and wanted. So stupid....I am concerned about the future if the crazy Christians on the far right gain too much power, but that's a different subject.

I'll give another example of what I think we're missing, not you personally, but atheists who feel isolated or who need more socialization. Today we went out for lunch. I saw two women in a large group in the restaurant who I know from my aerobics group. I stopped to say hi and talk for a minute. One told me they were having a birthday celebration and they were part of a church group. I doubt they were discussing religion at lunch, but their church enabled them to become friends and socialize as a group.

I have enough of a social life, but I do miss the atheist groups we once belonged to in Atlanta. We just aren't up to that horrendous drive any longer as we've aged. I've suggested a social support group that I would lead at my senior center, but the activity director hasn't even given me any feedback yet regarding if he would approve my suggestion.

I wanted to start a humanist/secular philosophy group at our senior center, but I couldn't get two of my friends in my age group to help me out and I didn't want to do it without some support and help. The center has a couple of religious groups, which some atheists would consider a violation on SCS, since our center is publicly funded. I don't care, but I was going to complain if they denied me a chance to have a secular discussion group. My favorite worker at the center confided in me that she's a non believer, who was raised as a JW, but she wants to keep it private out of fear of the reaction she would get. Maybe atheists who live in places like I do feel a greater need to have some organized groups that provide the type of support and socialization that religious groups do. Still, I know, as a native of New Jersey that it is still full of plenty of religious believers. They just aren't as open about it as people in the South. The culture here is very influenced by Christianity, sometimes for good and other times for bad, while it can also be entertaining in an annoying way.

My sister still lives in NJ and she remains a fairly conservative Christian with a group of church friends. She doesn't even attend the main church service. She goes to the small, more social groups like Bible Study and things like that. I know that women usually seem to have a greater need for such things. Our little meetups usually have more women than men attend, although my husband always comes with me. Sometimes former poster Jobar comes, despite living quite a distance from us.

Again, Silverman is wondering why it's so hard to establish strong atheist groups, and after attending the church service, he realized how much bonding and joy some aspects of religion bring some people. I get it. I have also come to understand why there are so many atheist Christians in churches. I'm sure there are a lot more than the few I've personally met. If only we knew how to herd our cats. I had high hopes about 20 or so years ago when we started joining secular groups in Atlanta, but there is only one left that we were members of and I have no idea if organizations like the Sunday Assembly ( I think it's called ) has lasted or the Black non believers of Atlanta for that matter. Come to think of it, that group was made up mostly of women, I think.

Anyway....thanks for your input.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I question the whole talking point of "angry atheists". It dates back to 2005-09, when all sorts of atheist books came out with more market presence than any other span in publishing history. Those were the years when The End of Faith, Losing Faith in Faith, The God Delusion, and God Is Not Great came out. It was a convenient label for Christian media to use, to box in and throw shade on freethought. If you've read those books, you can fairly say that most of them contain snark, but it's more accurate to call the authors incisive and unapologetic than angry. Christian commentators can't stand it that atheists have a strong voice in the public sphere, are being heard, and are not reticent to criticize how the religious community has sided with the GOP and seeks to impose its moral stance on people who have no connection with the church. If "let religion be private" was how the Church behaved, there'd be no need for atheists to point out its abuses.
(Related issue: the ridiculous trope that some believers push that atheists are "angry at God". Truly silly. This comes up repeatedly in The Atheist Experience webcast. You'd think it would be played out, by now.)

 

[Ford]

I agree with many of your points, although that wasn't really the question I was asking in the OP. I'm asking if atheists are becoming less angry, and abrasive toward religion and admitting that religious groups often provide valuable services, and purposes for their communities.

Okay. I have become much more mellow over the years although that would never have happened without meeting like minded folk such as we have here. Before that I always felt like I was on the defensive, even had people run away in horror when I would tell them I'm atheist, not religious in any way. Now I take it all in stride without flinching. The answer to your question may lie in the fact that even religious people realize that there are lots of good folk who don't agree with their religious views.

I agree with a lot of this. I was never really the "angry atheist," but it was definitely different when I was in college back in the 80s during the whole "born again" thing. I always tried to be the person whom theists would say "well...wait a minute. How are you an atheist? You're so...nice."

Things have changed a lot since then. Or even since 20 years ago. I'm thinking about a former co-worker that used to sit next to me at my current job. He was just this guy, and then one day I saw his guitar case and said "oh, do you play?" It was a bass, and yes, he played in his church every Thursday. He said something like "yes, I'm a Christian, but don't worry...you don't have to hold back around me." He showed me some photos from his performances, and I was like "cool." Then the person who sat next to him was also a musician, and was non-binary. Different pronouns and what not. They became fast friends. We never really talked about religion, because...why? Just three friends hanging out on the job.

And yeah, all anecdotal, but a complete 180 from what it was like when I was their age.

 

[SLD]

Americans are becoming less religious

I think the situation is far more complex. While overall Americans have become less religious, it’s where they are leaving that is most important.

American Christians can really be divided into four basic groups:

1) mainline Protestant (I.e., Episcopal, Methodist, Lutheran)
2) Catholics
3) Black evangelical
4) white evangelical.

It is the last that is truly the problem in this country. But the loss in Christians primarily comes from the first two. The share of Christians who identify as evangelical has grown as a result!

Chapter 1: The Changing Religious Composition of the U.S.

Christians remain by far the largest religious group in the United States, but the Christian share of the population has declined markedly. In the past

www.pewresearch.org

This is also the same group that has engineered a takeover of the Republican Party. The biggest factor in Trump supporters is evangelical Christianity. And the new atheism just hasn’t made enough of a dent in their ranks to make a difference in the country. Yet. That could change in the future if Christianity continues to decline. By tying themselves to one form of Christianity, the Republican party could find itself increasingly in the minority and forced to change, which in turn will change evangelicals. Hopefully.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I question the whole talking point of "angry atheists". It dates back to 2005-09, when all sorts of atheist books came out with more market presence than any other span in publishing history. Those were the years when The End of Faith, Losing Faith in Faith, The God Delusion, and God Is Not Great came out. It was a convenient label for Christian media to use, to box in and throw shade on freethought. If you've read those books, you can fairly say that most of them contain snark, but it's more accurate to call the authors incisive and unapologetic than angry. Christian commentators can't stand it that atheists have a strong voice in the public sphere, are being heard, and are not reticent to criticize how the religious community has sided with the GOP and seeks to impose its moral stance on people who have no connection with the church. If "let religion be private" was how the Church behaved, there'd be no need for atheists to point out its abuses.
(Related issue: the ridiculous trope that some believers push that atheists are "angry at God". Truly silly. This comes up repeatedly in The Atheist Experience webcast. You'd think it would be played out, by now.)

The last person that played the "angry at god" card on me got asked "Why are you angry at Santa?" Worked pretty good.

My parents generation contained a lot of "angry anti-atheists." I suppose they equated all atheists with what happened because of Madalyn Murray O'Hair's successful efforts with regards to sanctioned school prayer.

 

[southernhybrid]

I checked last night and the Black Nonbelievers of Atlanta seem to going strong, but the leader, who also expanded the group to about 5 other cities did something on a cruise that made the other groups upset with her, so they left the group. It didn't say what she did. I'm pretty sure I met her once. She is a fierce activist for the right of atheists, primarily Black atheists to be more accepted and to have an organization allowing them to socialize and receive support.

The Sunday Assembly group seems to be doing well in ATL. This group has chapters in many cities, and I think some of them are in other countries. The purpose of this group was to provide a church like meetings, without the supernatural elements, but including plenty of music and speakers. I wish these groups weren't such a long, congested drive from us, of I'd visit and see what's going on. So, maybe the cats aren't as hard to herd as Silverman thinks.

I am looking forward to our little meetup tonight, but we will be lucky to have more than 4 people there. Regardless, one of my friends and I joke that whenever 2 or more gather not in His name, a good time will be had by all. I always feel joyful after getting together with our little group and that is why I'd love to see more atheist organizations that provide the better aspects of what churches provide their members.

Btw, I've enjoyed reading all of the comments so far.

 

[southernhybrid]

I question the whole talking point of "angry atheists". It dates back to 2005-09, when all sorts of atheist books came out with more market presence than any other span in publishing history. Those were the years when The End of Faith, Losing Faith in Faith, The God Delusion, and God Is Not Great came out. It was a convenient label for Christian media to use, to box in and throw shade on freethought. If you've read those books, you can fairly say that most of them contain snark, but it's more accurate to call the authors incisive and unapologetic than angry. Christian commentators can't stand it that atheists have a strong voice in the public sphere, are being heard, and are not reticent to criticize how the religious community has sided with the GOP and seeks to impose its moral stance on people who have no connection with the church. If "let religion be private" was how the Church behaved, there'd be no need for atheists to point out its abuses.
(Related issue: the ridiculous trope that some believers push that atheists are "angry at God". Truly silly. This comes up repeatedly in The Atheist Experience webcast. You'd think it would be played out, by now.)

I agree for the most part. Most atheists weren't angry, but when those books came out, I remember reading a few, shall we say "testimonies" by a few well known atheists who said they were very angry at the way they were being perceived and treated by Christians. Of course, nobody is angry at a nonexistent creature, but you're right, some of the worst Christians make that claim.

 

[Tharmas]

The Washington Post has an interesting article about the "Nones."

The Pew findings seem to debunk, or at least complicate, the idea that people who leave religion are hostile toward it. The overwhelming majority of nones say religion causes division and intolerance and encourages superstition and illogical thinking, but 58 percent also say religion helps society by giving people meaning and purpose.

In terms of forming groups of socialization, the report says:

The report also challenges a notion often cited by faith-based groups and other civic leaders that secularization causes people to be less civically active. Pew asked about various civic metrics, including whether respondents had volunteered in the past year, had voted in recent midterm elections or follow public affairs closely. The rates for nones are similar to those of people who have a religious affiliation but don’t attend religious services. In other words, the issue appears to be more about involvement in groups than religious labels or associations.

The report tries to analyze the beliefs of nones:

The makeup of the 'nones'​

Nothing in particular
63%
Atheist
17%
Agnostic
20%

Source: Pew Research

I found it to be a very interesting study and I recommend it.

 

[southernhybrid]

The Washington Post has an interesting article about the "Nones."

The Pew findings seem to debunk, or at least complicate, the idea that people who leave religion are hostile toward it. The overwhelming majority of nones say religion causes division and intolerance and encourages superstition and illogical thinking, but 58 percent also say religion helps society by giving people meaning and purpose.

In terms of forming groups of socialization, the report says:

The report also challenges a notion often cited by faith-based groups and other civic leaders that secularization causes people to be less civically active. Pew asked about various civic metrics, including whether respondents had volunteered in the past year, had voted in recent midterm elections or follow public affairs closely. The rates for nones are similar to those of people who have a religious affiliation but don’t attend religious services. In other words, the issue appears to be more about involvement in groups than religious labels or associations.

The report tries to analyze the beliefs of nones:

The makeup of the 'nones'​

Nothing in particular
63%
Atheist
17%
Agnostic
20%

Source: Pew Research

I found it to be a very interesting study and I recommend it.

I might have read the previous article on the same subject in WaPo, but I missed that one this morning. Thanks for posting it.

Oddly enough, most of my little group members are older than 50, but we do have a few nones, who aren't atheists who join us at times. One of them is about 30 and he said that atheists are more fun to hang out with then Christians. Another one believes in a higher power, but she no longer has any religion. Both of them are gay and married, although the male marriage isn't working out lately. We also have a couple of young atheists but they work so they can't always join us. All but one of us regulars are over 60 and one is in her mid 40s. We always have more women attend our meetups. The most disheartening thing to me is that we've had so many join the group over the years attend for awhile and then disappear. About half of our members never went to school past high school and they struggle financially. They are all strong atheists, so I guess they are outliers among the PEW statistics. Then again, some of the smartest people I know are high school grads. A former neighbor started the group about 10 or so years ago. He became an atheist right after his young child died. We all have different stories.

Atlanta Freethought used to be made up of mostly older adults, but the last time we visited, there were more younger people present. I think I will discuss this topic tonight if I can get some interest. I know that my female friend who is in her 40s, gets disgusted with religion, but it might just be the more conservative branches. I think we can all agree that the White evangelicals are a potential threat to the country, considering they support Trump and try to reverse the SCS to make it sound as we live in a Christian country and the government should be controlled by Christian ideology.

One last thing. We've become very friendly with the two Black car salesmen where we bought two cars earlier this year. One of them told us that he no longer believes in god, because religion is all about controlling people. The article mentions that is a big reason why people leave religion. He told us that it was very hard being a Black atheist in the South. It's not that easy being a white atheist in the South either. We still hav a lot of fundamentalists around my area. I don't know whether he continues to attend church. I know when we first met him he was involved with his church community. I might ask him the next time we see him. I get his point though. Black Southerners are pretty much expected to attend church. We do have two Black members of our tiny group who are younger than the rest of us. And, there was one who used to always attend our now defunct Humanist group in ATL. He's the one who usually went to church with his wife.

 

[unapologetic]

I think your warm and fuzzy view of religion is short sighted.
I see religion as a power trip (and a scam), and no 'truce' is posable.
In spite of our gains, religion is gaining in political power.
We can't afford to slack off or we'll get persecuted again.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Certainly the pro-lifers and the Moms for Liberty groups have stepped up the militancy of the religious right in the past year. They want to reset the culture. Whether they've hit their high water mark, who knows. The t-SCOTUS (trump Court) is here for a long time.

 

[unapologetic]

I was raised in a small PA town in the '50s-'60s.
I was in HS when prayer was taken out. I was the only one who thought it was a good idea. My old man was on the school board, so I heard a few plans for getting around the ban, but none were carried out.
I was becoming atheist, but in hiding. I went so far as to let myself get dunked in front of the congregation, to please my mother. In preparation for the dunking/joining the church, I had a 10 minute debate with our paster. Which I lost. So I continued to pretend to be baptist. But actually an atheist in hiding.
A few months later I left for college in Rochester NY, and never went back. For 50 years I was free. Nobody cared that I was a heathen. Religious people were easy to avoid. I don't even know what religion my friends followed, if any. Rochester has one of those 'sunday gatherings' but I've never been. Sci-fi fandom was my 'community'.

Now in 2020 I came back to PA.
My first week back, my brother-in-law gives me a hard time about my long hair and beard.
Now I'm in an even smaller town of 1500 people, and 5 churches. (One in the storefront next to my apt. building), with a large cross on the hill coming into town.
I'm in hiding again.
The only thing that's changed is, I can be atheist online.
Yes, I'm an online atheist and somewhat angry.

What I'm getting at is that your OP is premature. We still have a long way to go here in the boonies.

 

[ideologyhunter]

What part(s) of PA did/do you live in? I love your state -- didn't know it was that churchy. My main base in PA was always State College, which is a swingin' town.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Yes, I'm an online atheist and somewhat angry.

What I'm getting at is that your OP is premature. We still have a long way to go here in the boonies.

"Somewhat angry" covers a lot of ground. Sounds like you live in Pennsyltucky. I spend a bit of time in those environs and it's definitely a red haven for the most part. There's a lot of racism, a lot of religion and a lot of guns. But I meet a lot of kind people there who are about as interested in my religious leanings as I am in the price of tea in China. I had my Biden sticker on my car and was doing some work where I knew everyone was red. Never heard anything negative, which I took as a positive.

When I lived down south the racism was overt. For them it was a cultural identity, sad for sure considering the level of ignorance it takes to be racist, but the pendulum was swinging ever so slowly against them so I could live with it. I see religious supremacism as a behavior to be pondered and understood intellectually. I'm old and strong and confident and able to hold my own in any conversation. And I'm never afraid to shock a person with the truth. But I know when to keep my thoughts to myself too. In the groups I frequent the subject of religion just never comes up. There is the occasional person who is all gaga about Jesus and when you get to know the person you realize they have a ton of issues in their lives. Ironic? No. That seems to be the norm. They are always people looking for help, comfort and answers to their problems, some quite severe. For them I actually have a lot of compassion because in most cases they're going through some real hell.