Bernie Sander's Speech on Socialism

[Cheerful Charlie]

For those who missed his speech on what he means by socialism, you can read the text of his speech here.

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/19/9762028/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism

Basic take-away, Bernie is saying we need to continue on with FDR's New Deal, which has been a notable success. He also points to Johnson and Medicare - Medicaid as models of services that have made life in America better for many.

"And, by the way, almost everything he (FDR) proposed was called "socialist." Social Security, which transformed life for the elderly in this country was "socialist." The concept of the "minimum wage" was seen as a radical intrusion into the marketplace and was described as "socialist." Unemployment insurance, abolishing child labor, the 40-hour work week, collective bargaining, strong banking regulations, deposit insurance, and job programs that put millions of people to work were all described, in one way or another, as "socialist.""
- Bernie Sanders

Socialism then was the label the right of FDR's day called FDR's New Deal programs.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I'm well aware of all of that, and the fact that Bernie Sanders has the cajones to stand up and announce "Yes, it's socialist. You got a problem with that?" is exactly why I support him.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

"So let me define for you, simply and straightforwardly, what democratic socialism means to me. It builds on what Franklin Delano Roosevelt said when he fought for guaranteed economic rights for all Americans."
- Bernie Sanders

So you can have this or a niggardly, gimlet eyed, no services small government that continues on with failed policies of the right.
If this is indeed socialist, well then, I'm a socialist.

 

[RavenSky]

I'm well aware of all of that, and the fact that Bernie Sanders has the cajones to stand up and announce "Yes, it's socialist. You got a problem with that?" is exactly why I support him.

^^^ that

 

[braces_for_impact]

Yep, I watched it. I support him. It was nothing new to me, but then I follow politics. If someone doesn't know what socialism is, I think he made it quite clear.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The problem with "socialism" is that it really does not mean anything . There are many differing ideas as to what socialism is and does. So that leaves it open to create strawmen Bernie's "democratic socialism" is simply what we have had since FDR. Without the New Deal we would probably today be more like Mexico. or Appalachia. An unpleasant place to live. Most right wingers seem to think of socialism as being somewhat like what we see in Orwell's 1984. Or the poor leaching off the wealthy "producers". Romney's 47% crap. Forgetting that the Bush tax cuts mainly to the rich still are responsible for 24% of the bad old debt they keep bleating about. Socialism for the rich. Since 2008 productivity has risen in America while the wages of lower levels of working American wages and spending power have dropped. Redistribution of wealth GOP style. "Look at these profits! Lets divvy it up. One for me, none for you, one for me, none for you..." Socialism Bernie Sanders style simply means a common sense sort of world where all prosper, not just the upper economic sectors of the population.

 

[Valjean]

Good points, Chas, but the unwashed masses are not particularly analytic. To most Americans "Socialism" is synonymous with Marxism is synonymous with Communist totalitarianism, but Sanders is pretty much stuck with the term.
His apology I think, was pretty enlightening.

 

[Derec]

I'm well aware of all of that, and the fact that Bernie Sanders has the cajones to stand up and announce "Yes, it's socialist. You got a problem with that?" is exactly why I support him.

I find his tactic baffling. Why hitch your wagon to a rightly despised term if what he wants is not really socialism (as even the prime minister of Denmark pointed out to him). Socialism properly describes a system dominated by public (usually through the state) ownership of means of production. It is thus the opposite of capitalism which is dominated by private ownership of means of production.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I'm well aware of all of that, and the fact that Bernie Sanders has the cajones to stand up and announce "Yes, it's socialist. You got a problem with that?" is exactly why I support him.

I find his tactic baffling. Why hitch your wagon to a rightly despised term if what he wants is not really socialism (as even the prime minister of Denmark pointed out to him). Socialism properly describes a system dominated by public (usually through the state) ownership of means of production. It is thus the opposite of capitalism which is dominated by private ownership of means of production.

The thing to note about his "Baffling" "tactic is to note that it has served him well politically speaking for years. From his days as mayor of Burlington, to his time as a congressman to his current office of U.S. senator.

His version of socialism is socialism lite, and does not mean Marxist socialism or actually nationalizing means of production et al. Obviously he is up against the lack of understanding about any of this by most Americans. On the other hand, the large numbers of enthusiastic Bernie supporters suggest the the term does not scare many Americans, especially younger voters who are among his main supporters. I intend to vote for him in the primaries.

 

[arkirk]

I'm well aware of all of that, and the fact that Bernie Sanders has the cajones to stand up and announce "Yes, it's socialist. You got a problem with that?" is exactly why I support him.

I find his tactic baffling. Why hitch your wagon to a rightly despised term if what he wants is not really socialism (as even the prime minister of Denmark pointed out to him). Socialism properly describes a system dominated by public (usually through the state) ownership of means of production. It is thus the opposite of capitalism which is dominated by private ownership of means of production.

YOU JUST DON'T GET ANYTHING DO YOU? Democratic Socialism does not need to do things that are unnecessary...does not attempt to own things that are unnecessary..does not need to exclude members of society from economic activity. You just keep harping on private ownership as a cure all for all our problems...the slaves were all privately owned. Wake up!

There is no reason to despise socialism. There are sound reasons to reject elitism, racism, and great wealth disparity. You sound like a person who came from the age of Red Scare. Our system of government needs to change and begin to deal with the environment and people left out of our economic system. Otherwise both of these languish and our entire society threatens itself with extinction.

 

[fromderinside]

I find his tactic baffling. Why hitch your wagon to a rightly despised term if what he wants is not really socialism (as even the prime minister of Denmark pointed out to him). Socialism properly describes a system dominated by public (usually through the state) ownership of means of production. It is thus the opposite of capitalism which is dominated by private ownership of means of production.

YOU JUST DON'T GET ANYTHING DO YOU? Democratic Socialism does not need to do things that are unnecessary...does not attempt to own things that are unnecessary..does not need to exclude members of society from economic activity. You just keep harping on private ownership as a cure all for all our problems...the slaves were all privately owned. Wake up!

There is no reason to despise socialism. There are sound reasons to reject elitism, racism, and great wealth disparity. You sound like a person who came from the age of Red Scare. Our system of government needs to change and begin to deal with the environment and people left out of our economic system. Otherwise both of these languish and our entire society threatens itself with extinction.

Just as good a point as any since you make good points. As you point out, Socialism does not equal communism which would tie everything into government controlled. However, conservatives have succeeded in tying the two together politically. So in the popular mind socialism equals government control. That is the reason it takes a Bernie to make the statements he makes. We need a ground game that shames liberals into abandoning their fear of being labeled as something good by constantly pointing out that what liberals have done (FDR forward) are what America wants and likes. Stop the weasel wording. All it does is tie other words up in the conservative propaganda net.

As Reagan said spades are spades. It is time democrats and liberals got back to calling things what they are with smiles and determination.

 

[nightwyrm]

You know what, I'm sick and tired of FOX et al turning all the words which can be used to accurately sum up the left's ideas into dirty words: Liberal, Progressive, Socialism etc. I'm glad Bernie is doing this. If you allow the other side to define and misrepresent the words you're using, you've already lost in the market place of ideas.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

YOU JUST DON'T GET ANYTHING DO YOU? Democratic Socialism does not need to do things that are unnecessary...does not attempt to own things that are unnecessary..does not need to exclude members of society from economic activity. You just keep harping on private ownership as a cure all for all our problems...the slaves were all privately owned. Wake up!

There is no reason to despise socialism. There are sound reasons to reject elitism, racism, and great wealth disparity. You sound like a person who came from the age of Red Scare. Our system of government needs to change and begin to deal with the environment and people left out of our economic system. Otherwise both of these languish and our entire society threatens itself with extinction.

Just as good a point as any since you make good points. As you point out, Socialism does not equal communism which would tie everything into government controlled. However, conservatives have succeeded in tying the two together politically. So in the popular mind socialism equals government control. That is the reason it takes a Bernie to make the statements he makes. We need a ground game that shames liberals into abandoning their fear of being labeled as something good by constantly pointing out that what liberals have done (FDR forward) are what America wants and likes. Stop the weasel wording. All it does is tie other words up in the conservative propaganda net.

As Reagan said spades are spades. It is time democrats and liberals got back to calling things what they are with smiles and determination.

Even more than that: the idea that the Democrats should actually risk being accused of standing for something that not everyone agrees with. Republicans are not at all shy about their positions: they KNOW not everyone agrees with their stance on gay marriage or abortion. They KNOW they hold unpopular opinions about the minimum wage and healthcare reform. They peddle these opinions in public discourse as if the opposition is small or irrelevant; as if the people who disagree with them can and should be marginalized because, well, their opinions are the right one.

Democrats have a depressing tendency to backpedal if they ever get the sense that they might be alienating anyone ever. They refuse to declare any indisputable principles and demonstrate their ability to sell out just about any cause if they think it will ingratiate them with conservatives. In the end, the only thing you can consistently count on the Democrats for is not being quite as bad as Republicans.

 

[Valjean]

Sander's Democratic Socialism goes back decades. If he were to try to dodge the term now he'd be accused not only of being a socialist but of trying to hide something.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Camelot Jockey

For those who missed his speech on what he means by socialism, you can read the text of his speech here.

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/19/9762028/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism

Basic take-away, Bernie is saying we need to continue on with FDR's New Deal, which has been a notable success. He also points to Johnson and Medicare - Medicaid as models of services that have made life in America better for many.

"And, by the way, almost everything he (FDR) proposed was called "socialist." Social Security, which transformed life for the elderly in this country was "socialist." The concept of the "minimum wage" was seen as a radical intrusion into the marketplace and was described as "socialist." Unemployment insurance, abolishing child labor, the 40-hour work week, collective bargaining, strong banking regulations, deposit insurance, and job programs that put millions of people to work were all described, in one way or another, as "socialist.""
- Bernie Sanders

Socialism then was the label the right of FDR's day called FDR's New Deal programs.

But since then, 60s New Age Leftists follow degenerate anti-majority fads and have nothing but contempt for the Americans FDR helped. Sanders puts the Trustfundie Treehuggers' bossy ignorance above all the lucrative working-class jobs on the Keystone Pipeline. What really appalls this snob is that people who didn't graduate from the elitist universities can make $200,000 a year on it.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Karl Marx Was the Trophy Husband of a Patty Hearst Type Duchess

Good points, Chas, but the unwashed masses are not particularly analytic. To most Americans "Socialism" is synonymous with Marxism is synonymous with Communist totalitarianism, but Sanders is pretty much stuck with the term.
His apology I think, was pretty enlightening.

Your use of "unwashed masses" reveals the open snobbery behind Postmodern Leftism. Its hatred of Capitalism is not out of sympathy for the unprivileged majority, but aristocratic contempt for rich upstarts who made their money in trade instead of inheriting it.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Nothing Grows in Sand

YOU JUST DON'T GET ANYTHING DO YOU? Democratic Socialism does not need to do things that are unnecessary...does not attempt to own things that are unnecessary..does not need to exclude members of society from economic activity. You just keep harping on private ownership as a cure all for all our problems...the slaves were all privately owned. Wake up!

There is no reason to despise socialism. There are sound reasons to reject elitism, racism, and great wealth disparity. You sound like a person who came from the age of Red Scare. Our system of government needs to change and begin to deal with the environment and people left out of our economic system. Otherwise both of these languish and our entire society threatens itself with extinction.

Just as good a point as any since you make good points. As you point out, Socialism does not equal communism which would tie everything into government controlled. However, conservatives have succeeded in tying the two together politically. So in the popular mind socialism equals government control. That is the reason it takes a Bernie to make the statements he makes. We need a ground game that shames liberals into abandoning their fear of being labeled as something good by constantly pointing out that what liberals have done (FDR forward) are what America wants and likes. Stop the weasel wording. All it does is tie other words up in the conservative propaganda net.

As Reagan said spades are spades. It is time democrats and liberals got back to calling things what they are with smiles and determination.

Sanders is the Ron Paul of the Left, a doddering old man with confused ideas coming from associating too much with people mesmerized by the same delusion.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

When something like FDR's New Deal Socialism works there's always a backlash. People forget the reason for their present success. It's not unlike passing environmental legislation so that cities are not choked with smog and rivers are no longer open cesspools. The ignoramuses will clamber that we don't need environmental constraints because the air is clean and the rivers are healthy.

Sanders' detractors are largely people who have benefitted from FDR's legacy. They're just too stupid, too arrogant or too greedy to know and admit that it worked and is working.

 

[Valjean]

Good points, Chas, but the unwashed masses are not particularly analytic. To most Americans "Socialism" is synonymous with Marxism is synonymous with Communist totalitarianism, but Sanders is pretty much stuck with the term.
His apology I think, was pretty enlightening.

Your use of "unwashed masses" reveals the open snobbery behind Postmodern Leftism. Its hatred of Capitalism is not out of sympathy for the unprivileged majority, but aristocratic contempt for rich upstarts who made their money in trade instead of inheriting it.

You don't get tongue-in-cheek, apparently.