Bill Gates - Tax Robots

[ZiprHead]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/nccryZOcrUg[/YOUTUBE]

Thoughts?

 

[LordKiran]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/nccryZOcrUg[/YOUTUBE]

Thoughts?

Wrong-headed. Taxing robots makes a certain kind of sense but you would have to tax them to the point where it is no longer feasible to use them over human labor in order to sustain the people those robots were designed to put out on the streets. The taxation of robotic labor has a sort of Luddite undertone that only serves to temporarily halt human industrial progress for the sake of someone else's livelyhood. The only way we can survive in a world of robots is if we completely shift our society to account for the growing redundancy of human labor.

 

[barbos]

No taxation without representation!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

My first thought is that it's a YouTube video, so I have no idea what Gates' thoughts are on the subject or what his arguments for or against the idea might be, since the OP provided no context of the subject matter beyond a thread title.

My second thought would be that the notion wouldn't be all that different than imposing a border tax on foreign imports. It's an artificial increase in price in order to help minimize the cost differential of replacing local workers with foreign workers / machines.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No taxation without representation!

Exactly. And that is how Nixon became President again!

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Is this about saving jobs maintaining income tax revenue for the government?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As a general concept it's going to happen but I do not think the time has come yet.

I do have a problem with taxing "robots", though--exactly what is a robot?

Fundamentally, this is an aspect of a basic income system.

 

[LordKiran]

As a general concept it's going to happen but I do not think the time has come yet.

I do have a problem with taxing "robots", though--exactly what is a robot?

Fundamentally, this is an aspect of a basic income system.

An autonomous or semi-autonomous machine capable of producing labor without direct 1-to-1 input by an operator.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

As a general concept it's going to happen but I do not think the time has come yet.

I do have a problem with taxing "robots", though--exactly what is a robot?

Fundamentally, this is an aspect of a basic income system.

An autonomous or semi-autonomous machine capable of producing labor without direct 1-to-1 input by an operator.

I don't know if it's really clear cut. The McDonalds by my house has replaced most of the human servers with an ATM-type machine where I just select my order from a touchscreen. Is that a robot? If they upgrade it with voice-recognition software so that I can walk in and speak my order to it just like a would a human, is that a robot? The fries currently are managed by a timer which turns on a light to let the workers know they're done after a set period. Is that a robot? If that's upgraded to lift the fry tray out of the grease and dump it in the bin where the completed fries go, is that a robot?

At what point along those spectrums is something taxed instead of not taxed?

 

[LordKiran]

An autonomous or semi-autonomous machine capable of producing labor without direct 1-to-1 input by an operator.

I don't know if it's really clear cut. The McDonalds by my house has replaced most of the human servers with an ATM-type machine where I just select my order from a touchscreen. Is that a robot? If they upgrade it with voice-recognition software so that I can walk in and speak my order to it just like a would a human, is that a robot? The fries currently are managed by a timer which turns on a light to let the workers know they're done after a set period. Is that a robot? If that's upgraded to lift the fry tray out of the grease and dump it in the bin where the completed fries go, is that a robot?

At what point along those spectrums is something taxed instead of not taxed?

Yes to all of the above. This is also partly why taxing robotic labor is foolish..Why is it a problem when machines and computers replace some jobs and not others? It's all the same in the end.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I don't know if it's really clear cut. The McDonalds by my house has replaced most of the human servers with an ATM-type machine where I just select my order from a touchscreen. Is that a robot? If they upgrade it with voice-recognition software so that I can walk in and speak my order to it just like a would a human, is that a robot? The fries currently are managed by a timer which turns on a light to let the workers know they're done after a set period. Is that a robot? If that's upgraded to lift the fry tray out of the grease and dump it in the bin where the completed fries go, is that a robot?

At what point along those spectrums is something taxed instead of not taxed?

Yes to all of the above. This is also partly why taxing robotic labor is foolish..Why is it a problem when machines and computers replace some jobs and not others? It's all the same.

OK, I thought you were arguing the opposite point as opposed to agreeing with me. Never mind.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As a general concept it's going to happen but I do not think the time has come yet.

I do have a problem with taxing "robots", though--exactly what is a robot?

Fundamentally, this is an aspect of a basic income system.

An autonomous or semi-autonomous machine capable of producing labor without direct 1-to-1 input by an operator.

So the automatic doors at grocery stores are robots? They produce labor (replace a doorman) without an operator.

Is the automatic transmission in your car a robot?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

An autonomous or semi-autonomous machine capable of producing labor without direct 1-to-1 input by an operator.

I don't know if it's really clear cut. The McDonalds by my house has replaced most of the human servers with an ATM-type machine where I just select my order from a touchscreen. Is that a robot? If they upgrade it with voice-recognition software so that I can walk in and speak my order to it just like a would a human, is that a robot? The fries currently are managed by a timer which turns on a light to let the workers know they're done after a set period. Is that a robot? If that's upgraded to lift the fry tray out of the grease and dump it in the bin where the completed fries go, is that a robot?

At what point along those spectrums is something taxed instead of not taxed?

You actually eat at McDonalds? I'm aghast.

 

[LordKiran]

An autonomous or semi-autonomous machine capable of producing labor without direct 1-to-1 input by an operator.

So the automatic doors at grocery stores are robots? They produce labor (replace a doorman) without an operator.

Is the automatic transmission in your car a robot?

Considering that stores do not technically need doors at all as far as business hours are concerned, in this case the matter is a non issue. Stores may need a means to safeguard their insides during closed hours but at all other times, doors exist only as a cost saving measure for the owner. Also, doorman? Even if we ignore that doormen are typically for upscale apartments and restaurants (two places not usually associated with having automatic doors anyway.) I have to say that you are reeeeally grasping for a point of contention with this one. Come off it.

 

[J842P]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/nccryZOcrUg[/YOUTUBE]

Thoughts?

Wrong-headed. Taxing robots makes a certain kind of sense but you would have to tax them to the point where it is no longer feasible to use them over human labor in order to sustain the people those robots were designed to put out on the streets. The taxation of robotic labor has a sort of Luddite undertone that only serves to temporarily halt human industrial progress for the sake of someone else's livelyhood. The only way we can survive in a world of robots is if we completely shift our society to account for the growing redundancy of human labor.

Watching the video, I think Gates' proposal merits more consideration than that. He said "something like a robot tax." Really, I think he just means tax. That misses the core of the argument and only really addresses an afterthought he had at the end of the video.

I agree with Loren that it's really about a basic universal income.

He is certainly right that we are starving for people to fill interpersonal, empathetic roles. Indeed, during much of humanity's evolution people lived in closely-knit communities where the group's survival depended on everyone having each-other's back.

Really, we should stop trying to teach robots how to learn, and rather, we should be teaching people how to love.

 

[barbos]

Really, we should stop trying to teach robots how to learn, and rather, we should be teaching people how to love.

Former is easier.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So the automatic doors at grocery stores are robots? They produce labor (replace a doorman) without an operator.

Is the automatic transmission in your car a robot?

Considering that stores do not technically need doors at all as far as business hours are concerned, in this case the matter is a non issue. Stores may need a means to safeguard their insides during closed hours but at all other times, doors exist only as a cost saving measure for the owner. Also, doorman? Even if we ignore that doormen are typically for upscale apartments and restaurants (two places not usually associated with having automatic doors anyway.) I have to say that you are reeeeally grasping for a point of contention with this one. Come off it.

I was looking for the least robotic things I could think of that met the definition of "robot" that was presented. If you think I'm grasping you miss the point.

 

[LordKiran]

Considering that stores do not technically need doors at all as far as business hours are concerned, in this case the matter is a non issue. Stores may need a means to safeguard their insides during closed hours but at all other times, doors exist only as a cost saving measure for the owner. Also, doorman? Even if we ignore that doormen are typically for upscale apartments and restaurants (two places not usually associated with having automatic doors anyway.) I have to say that you are reeeeally grasping for a point of contention with this one. Come off it.

I was looking for the least robotic things I could think of that met the definition of "robot" that was presented. If you think I'm grasping you miss the point.

Oh it's a robot per my definition, but ultimately beside the point since nobody has lost their job as a result of automatic doors in what the last century (If even?) So yes, your point of contention IS grasping.

And honestly, I'm not even sure how your question challenges my position since my position is that taxing robots is absurd one reason being that there are so many things you could categorize as robots.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I was looking for the least robotic things I could think of that met the definition of "robot" that was presented. If you think I'm grasping you miss the point.

Oh it's a robot per my definition, but ultimately beside the point since nobody has lost their job as a result of automatic doors in what the last century (If even?) So yes, your point of contention IS grasping.

And honestly, I'm not even sure how your question challenges my position since my position is that taxing robots is absurd one reason being that there are so many things you could categorize as robots.

So automatic transmissions and automatic doors should be taxed?

 

[ZiprHead]

I never had anybody shift a manual transmission for me.