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Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
What We Know About the Shooting Death of Ahmaud Arbery

Mr. Arbery, a 25-year-old black man, was chased by armed white residents of a South Georgia neighborhood. He was shot dead during a confrontation.

Mr. Arbery, 25, was a former high school football standout who was living with his mother in coastal Glynn County, Ga., outside of the small city of Brunswick, Ga. He was shot dead in a suburban neighborhood called Satilla Shores. Friends and family said he liked to stay in good shape, and he was often seen jogging in and around his neighborhood.

On Sunday, Feb. 23, shortly after 1 p.m., he was killed in a neighborhood a short jog from his home after being confronted by a white man and his son.

Mr. Arbery was running in the Satilla Shores neighborhood when a man standing in his front yard saw him go by. The man, Gregory McMichael, 64, thought Mr. Arbery looked like a man suspected of several break-ins in the area and called to his son, Travis McMichael, 34.

According to a police report, the men grabbed a .357 magnum and a shotgun, got into a pickup truck and chased Mr. Arbery, trying unsuccessfully to cut him off. A third man was also involved in the pursuit, according to the police report and other documents.

Complete video at this site.
 

Worldtraveller

Veteran Member
Warning: Don't watch the video unless actually seeing people gunned down in the street doesn't bother you.

I can't believe these (white) men haven't been arrested/charged yet.
 

cycomiko

Member
From a Guardian article about this: According to a letter obtained by the Times, the prosecutor in Brunswick argued there was not probable cause to arrest the McMichaels because they were legally carrying firearms, had a right to pursue a burglary suspect and use deadly force to protect themselves.

I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
If you see two guys in the middle of the street holding guns, wouldn't you start running in the opposite direction rather than towards them ?
 

TV and credit cards

Veteran Member
In Georgia, are you obligated to stop when another citizen tells you to? Even from the video, Mr. Arbery was attempting to mind his own business. The now silent Mr. Arbery was within his right to defend himself against an armed stranger. The other McMichael shot him down in cold blood.
But then again,
NYT said:
Gregory McMichael is a former Glynn County police officer and a former investigator with the local district attorney’s office who retired last May.
So, there you go.
 

Jarhyn

Contributor
Wow. Just .. wow...

Is someone actually defending a group that threw together a posse, who lynched a black man? That they shot instead of hung him makes little difference. It's a fucking lynching.
 

rousseau

Contributor
Threads like this remind me that sometimes our 'debates' amount to an elementary school lesson where we ask how many apples we have if we add two and two together.

If you're black in America you're in grave danger from pervasive racism. Not sure what else can be said about it?
 

Derec

Contributor
I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.
In the video it can be seen that Arbery grabbed the shotgun. Not murder. Manslaughter at most.
 

Derec

Contributor
If you're black in America you're in grave danger from pervasive racism. Not sure what else can be said about it?

Vast majority of black people get killed by other black people, which means that if blacks in America are in "grave danger", it's mostly from their own.
Also, blacks killing whites twice as often as whites killing blacks. Another thing that doesn't fit media's narratives of "pervasive white racism", so it doesn't get mentioned.
 

Derec

Contributor
In Georgia, are you obligated to stop when another citizen tells you to?
Apparently there are citizen's arrest laws on the books.

Even from the video, Mr. Arbery was attempting to mind his own business.
Not if he really was the guy guilty of those break-ins. Given his history of theft, that is not unlikely.

The now silent Mr. Arbery was within his right to defend himself against an armed stranger. The other McMichael shot him down in cold blood.
"Cold blood" definitely doesn't apply here, as Arbery was shot after the two struggled over a gun.

But then again,
NYT said:
Gregory McMichael is a former Glynn County police officer and a former investigator with the local district attorney’s office who retired last May.
So, there you go.

I wonder if that's why Lee Merrittless took the case. Trying to shake down the county for millions.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
This exposes how stupid Stand Your Ground laws are. These idiots grab their guns and pursue a runner. The DA says, well, they were just defending themselves. But what about the runner? Has he no right to defense from a couple crazy assholes with guns?! Stand Your Ground is simply a bullshit law that is solely designed to defend Han Solo, ie the guy who shoots first).
In Georgia, are you obligated to stop when another citizen tells you to? Even from the video, Mr. Arbery was attempting to mind his own business. The now silent Mr. Arbery was within his right to defend himself against an armed stranger. The other McMichael shot him down in cold blood.
But then again,
NYT said:
Gregory McMichael is a former Glynn County police officer and a former investigator with the local district attorney’s office who retired last May.
So, there you go.
The statement in the DA report notes that they had the legal right to apprehend the man... but the DA cites the law and law states you have to witness the crime, it doesn't state suspicion is enough.

What bothers me is the DA report refers to the video, so this video has been in their hands since the shooting and they are only now at a grand jury.
 

southernhybrid

Contributor
This case is probably finally going to the Grand Jury to decide if criminal charges should be filed, which of course they should be filed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/us/ahmaud-arbery-killing-georgia.html


A Georgia prosecutor said on Tuesday that a grand jury should decide whether to bring charges in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery, a 25-year-old unarmed black man who was pursued by two white men and shot in southern Georgia in February, as video of the encounter spread widely online.
“After careful review of the evidence,” the prosecutor, Tom Durden, of Georgia’s Atlantic Judicial Circuit, wrote in a statement, “I am of the opinion that the case should be presented to the grand jury of Glynn County for consideration of criminal charges.”

“This is very grave and very serious judicial malpractice,” James Woodall, the president of the Georgia N.A.A.C.P., said on Tuesday afternoon.
In a statement, Andrea Young, executive director of the A.C.L.U. of Georgia, said “the vigilante behavior that we saw in Brunswick is unacceptable in a civilized society.”
A spokesman for the Glynn County Police Department could not be reached for comment on Tuesday.

Mr. Durden said in a statement that the case should go before a Glynn County grand jury once the state judicial system allows such bodies to be empaneled again. Because of the coronavirus pandemic, the Georgia Supreme Court has prohibited grand juries from meeting through June 12.
Mr. Durden said he made his decision after “careful review of the evidence,” and after consulting with the Glynn County Police Department, the F.B.I., the United States attorney for the Southern District of Georgia and the Prosecuting Attorneys’ Council of Georgia.
Mr. Durden is the third prosecutor to be assigned to the case after the first two recused themselves because of professional ties to Gregory McMichael.

And no. This isn't normal in Georgia, but I know nothing about the politics of that part of the state. It sounds, from the little that is said in these articles, that the killers had political connections with some of those in power, considering that two prosecutors recused themselves. It appears to be an obvious case of murder.

Thankfully, I live in a mixed race neighborhood where black and white people walk and jog through the neighborhood and nobody worries about the color of the jogger's skin.
 

southernhybrid

Contributor
Apparently there are citizen's arrest laws on the books.


Not if he really was the guy guilty of those break-ins. Given his history of theft, that is not unlikely.

The now silent Mr. Arbery was within his right to defend himself against an armed stranger. The other McMichael shot him down in cold blood.
"Cold blood" definitely doesn't apply here, as Arbery was shot after the two struggled over a gun.

But then again,
NYT said:
Gregory McMichael is a former Glynn County police officer and a former investigator with the local district attorney’s office who retired last May.
So, there you go.

I wonder if that's why Lee Merrittless took the case. Trying to shake down the county for millions.

There is no evidence that the man who was murdered broke the law. The two shooters said that he looked like the guy who broke into some homes. Gee. Fucking white assholes have a long history of mistaking the identity of black men. Do you have an idea how many innocent black men have been charged with crimes that they didn't commit? Now, a man is gunned down for the crime of jogging while black. Disgusting!
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
I was once yelled at when I was in high school. I was doing hill intervals, going up and down the same big ass hill several times. I start going back down to the bottom and some guy asks me "Do you think you are funny?" I'm thinking "What?!" He went to accuse me of shutting his garage door. I'm thinking, I've been going back and forth on this hill (I fucking look like a runner, have been running the neighborhood for a couple years at that point). He demands to know where I live, I give him a vague description of the house, you know, just down the road, and he kind of gets his anger boner going flaccid. And it ends, and I go back to running up a hill like an idiot.

So I have an inkling of the confusion that poor runner must have had. But certainly not the fear when seeing a couple of entitled white assholes with guns telling you what to do. And you are thinking, what the fuck is going on, who the fuck are these guys, etc...

And that there was video and that concurred with the killer's story? That is disturbing.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Apparently there are citizen's arrest laws on the books.
If they witness a crime committed. They only suspected it.

"Cold blood" definitely doesn't apply here, as Arbery was shot after the two struggled over a gun.
There is definitely premeditation when you grab your guns to follow someone. They called it in, they could have followed at a distance... they didn't need to get involved. We have another dead person because the law is currently written that defends people recklessly creating situations and then shooting people because of the hazard they created.

There is a subset of white people that just don't understand walking around with guns (and not hunting) can be a bit intimidating for others.
 

southernhybrid

Contributor
I found another article in the Atlanta Journal about this case

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/bring-charges-against-brunswick-shooter/fz7taEww0Nqfedg8JgXm2K/


Brunswick attorney James Yancey said he believes Greg and Travis McMichael would have avoided criminal charges if not for the video. “It showed the depths of humanity,” Yancey said.Now, the investigation enters a whole new phase. GBI agents will now be asking the questions, backed by assurances from Gov. Brian Kemp they’ll conduct a thorough, independent probe.

nstead, Glynn police asked the GBI investigate the public release of the video. The agency tweeted its honoring that request while also looking into “allegations of threats against GCPD and individuals involved in the active investigation.” But the video, posted on YouTube Tuesday morning, had put the onus back on local law enforcement. Was race a factor in Glynn police’s decision not to charge the McMichaels, who are white, for the killing of an unarmed black man?

Questions also surround Greg McMichael’s ties to local law enforcement. The elder McMichael was once a Glynn police officer before joining the Brunswick Judicial Circuit as an investigator in the D.A.’s office.

So, the killer was a former police officer. That might explain why the prosecutors didn't want to take the case. And people wonder why so many black folks don't trust the police!
 

cycomiko

Member
I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.
In the video it can be seen that Arbery grabbed the shotgun. Not murder. Manslaughter at most.

Chasing him down while brandishing the weapons shows intent even if it's not "premeditated". I think that's the definition of 2nd degree murder but I'm no law expert. Do you expect Arbery to just lay down on the ground and not try to fight his way out? These aren't police chasing him.
 

Tom Sawyer

Super Moderator
Staff member
I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.
In the video it can be seen that Arbery grabbed the shotgun. Not murder. Manslaughter at most.

Chasing him down while brandishing the weapons shows intent even if it's not "premeditated". I think that's the definition of 2nd degree murder but I'm no law expert. Do you expect Arbery to just lay down on the ground and not try to fight his way out? These aren't police chasing him.

Dude, the right to try and defend yourself doesn't apply to black people. Grow up. The man may have even had a cellphone.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.
In the video it can be seen that Arbery grabbed the shotgun. Not murder. Manslaughter at most.

Chasing him down while brandishing the weapons shows intent even if it's not "premeditated". I think that's the definition of 2nd degree murder but I'm no law expert. Do you expect Arbery to just lay down on the ground and not try to fight his way out? These aren't police chasing him.
Not in the US. In Georgia, the law is that so as to create enough gray area to make reckless endangerment and homicide into "self-defense". They can take this to trial and they can get acquitted.

Certainly this is the other side of the coin. You going to put a former good ole boy cop on trial for the "unfortunate" killing of a black male who had a record? Get that with a white jury and how do you think that'd finish?

You saw what the Derec's and Loren Pechtel's did with Trayvon Martin. He was an internationally renowned drug kingpin / MMA giant (of the likes of Ken Shamrock).

This black male went for the gun to kill them. They had to shoot in self-defense. They couldn't have intended to kill this man, because they called the cops. Why commit murder when the cops are going to show up. It is a fucking rerun and I am tired of this program!... this stuff is so fucking depressing!
 

marc

Veteran Member
There is no evidence that the man who was murdered broke the law. The two shooters said that he looked like the guy who broke into some homes. Gee. Fucking white assholes have a long history of mistaking the identity of black men. Do you have an idea how many innocent black men have been charge with crimes that they didn't commit. Now, a man is gunned down for the crime of jogging while black. Disgusting!

From the excuse making by shooters in these types of cases I question if any break-ins even happened. Was there any break-ins committed? If so, do they actually have any description of the perpetrator? Or did they just see a black guy going through a mainly white neighborhood and assumed he was some kind of criminal casing the area (like Zimmerman) then go after him?

Looking at the video it looks like he is jogging when he comes up on the stopped truck, with two armed white guys looking at him. He tries going around the right to avoid the guy with the shotgun, they start yelling something. The guy with the shotgun comes around the front to go after him. The jogger, pretty much seeing that the armed assholes are after him, he tries to defend himself.


Gregory McMichael told police he saw the same man "the other night" and that he stuck his hand down his pants on that occasion, leading McMichael to believe he was armed, according to a Glynn County Police report.
After seeing Arbery jogging, McMichael then alerted Travis, 34, according to the police report.

"Travis, the guy is running down the street, let's go," McMichael said, according to the report.

The two grabbed a shotgun and a pistol and followed Arbery in their truck, police said. Travis McMichael, the driver, followed Arbery and then attempted to cut him off, the report said. Arbery turned around and began running in the opposite direction, the police report said.
They chased Arbery to a nearby intersection, where they caught up to him, the report said.

"Stop, stop, we want to talk to you," Gregory McMichael shouted at Arbery, according to the police report.
So by his own admission they were chasing him. Yea, this is a pretty clear case. Should be a quick conviction if the court has any credibility
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
From a Guardian article about this: According to a letter obtained by the Times, the prosecutor in Brunswick argued there was not probable cause to arrest the McMichaels because they were legally carrying firearms, had a right to pursue a burglary suspect and use deadly force to protect themselves.

I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.

I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.
In the video it can be seen that Arbery grabbed the shotgun. Not murder. Manslaughter at most.

Chasing down a burglar is a bad idea but is not illegal.

I'm not seeing the video but the article does say there was a fight over the shotgun. From a criminal standpoint I think the shooter is in the clear--this wasn't a case of chasing down and killing the guy. The shot wasn't about the burglary, it was about trying to take the shotgun.

Civil liability, though--they very well might be in trouble.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
This exposes how stupid Stand Your Ground laws are. These idiots grab their guns and pursue a runner. The DA says, well, they were just defending themselves. But what about the runner? Has he no right to defense from a couple crazy assholes with guns?! Stand Your Ground is simply a bullshit law that is solely designed to defend Han Solo, ie the guy who shoots first).

The "threat" from the guys with the guns was jail, not physical harm. As such, he has no right to use force.
 

rousseau

Contributor
If you're black in America you're in grave danger from pervasive racism. Not sure what else can be said about it?

Vast majority of black people get killed by other black people, which means that if blacks in America are in "grave danger", it's mostly from their own.
Also, blacks killing whites twice as often as whites killing blacks. Another thing that doesn't fit media's narratives of "pervasive white racism", so it doesn't get mentioned.

Ok, I'm going to give you a short history lesson. I don't have confidence that you'll read it in good faith, but here we go.

One thousand years ago black people predominated on the continent of Africa, and were minding their own business for the most part. They had problems, they were just as violent as anybody else, because like Europeans and Asians, they were human beings.

Fast forward to European colonialism and the slave trade, and black people are transported all over the world where they were given the lowest status in the societies in which they lived. Post Darwin most of the academic community was trying to prove that black people were sub-human, and that white people were a different species. Get the picture?

Now we have a base of black people in the continental U.S. who are trying to build their lives in an atmosphere of pervasive racism. White people dominate the U.S., they dominate every aspect of the economy and culture. They are the owners of businesses, they are the people who run schools, they are the people who make laws. And even those who aren't killing black people in the streets likely still don't want to hire them or promote their livelihood in any capacity. Ok, now are you getting the picture?

What do you expect black people to do? How do you expect them to survive in this environment? Have you ever put even a single thought to that? Even those who end up finding some semblance of success are those who've adapted to a white dominated culture, not vice versa. And even those people still face enormous barriers.

I'm done apologizing or beating around the bush, it's people like you who make this situation a reality. You're an unapologetic, uninformed racist.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
This exposes how stupid Stand Your Ground laws are. These idiots grab their guns and pursue a runner. The DA says, well, they were just defending themselves. But what about the runner? Has he no right to defense from a couple crazy assholes with guns?! Stand Your Ground is simply a bullshit law that is solely designed to defend Han Solo, ie the guy who shoots first).

The "threat" from the guys with the guns was jail, not physical harm. As such, he has no right to use force.
You have no idea what the threat from those two assholes was. Apparently the victim felt his life was in danger. And, when someone is pointing a firearm at you, or running after you with a firearm, your life is in danger.

I wonder if the victim had been armed and gunned down these two vigilantes, if the usual suspects would be defending him.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Fuck that noise. I used to sell weed. So that's a reason enough to kill someone now?
No. The reason Z shot him was because Trayvon attacked him.

The drug dealing (as well as the jewelry burglary) is simply dispelling the family narrative that he was a good kid.

Then why did you bring up the red herring? Dishonest, much?
No, you don't get it. It makes the black victim more deserving of their fate.
 

Derec

Contributor
Now we have a base of black people in the continental U.S. who are trying to build their lives in an atmosphere of pervasive racism.
I disagree that there exists "an atmosphere of pervasive racism".

White people dominate the U.S., they dominate every aspect of the economy and culture.
Not really true any more.

They are the owners of businesses,
A lot of businesses are owned by black people.

they are the people who run schools,
Plenty of school principals, deans and other administrators are black. Hell, we even have colleges whose sole purpose is that they have almost exclusively black student body and faculty.

they are the people who make laws.
There are a lot of black legislators on both federal and state level.

And even those who aren't killing black people in the streets likely still don't want to hire them or promote their livelihood in any capacity.
Bullshit. Especially since it isn't mostly white people who are "killing black people in the streets". Vast majority of black people gets killed by other black people. And there are twice as many white people killed by black people than vice versa. But that doesn't fit your prejudices, so you keep ignoring it.

Ok, now are you getting the picture?
I am not, because your picture is full of shit!

What do you expect black people to do? How do you expect them to survive in this environment?
What do you expect them to do?

Have you ever put even a single thought to that? Even those who end up finding some semblance of success are those who've adapted to a white dominated culture, not vice versa.
What's wrong with expecting people to adapt to the culture of the land. If you move to China or Japan, you would be expected to adapt to the local culture.

And even those people still face enormous barriers.
Like what?

I'm done apologizing or beating around the bush, it's people like you who make this situation a reality. You're an unapologetic, uninformed racist.
Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.
 

Jarhyn

Contributor
Then why did you bring up the red herring? Dishonest, much?
No, you don't get it. It makes the black victim more deserving of their fate.

Man, so, by that logic, if I saw an uglyass mofo who I suspected of hiring a prostitute in my neighborhood and pulled a gun on him, if he resisted or ran away, I could shoot him, SHOULD shoot him! I'll remember that.

Not that I suspect I'll ever see just such a person in my neighborhood; I suspect they would be too scared of all the black people to be seen within 10 miles of here.
 

rousseau

Contributor
Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.
 

Trausti

Contributor
Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.

But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
This exposes how stupid Stand Your Ground laws are. These idiots grab their guns and pursue a runner. The DA says, well, they were just defending themselves. But what about the runner? Has he no right to defense from a couple crazy assholes with guns?! Stand Your Ground is simply a bullshit law that is solely designed to defend Han Solo, ie the guy who shoots first).

The "threat" from the guys with the guns was jail, not physical harm.
How the fuck is he supposed to if these assholes are not going to shoot him. If he indeed is INNOCENT, he'd have no idea what the fuck they were on about and being extremely nervous and anxious.
As such, he has no right to use force.
The fuck he doesn't. Attempt to apprehend and brandishing a weapon? That can be considered kidnapping. Especially if the guy doesn't have a clue about what these dumbasses are yelling at him over.
 

TV and credit cards

Veteran Member
§ 17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.


Report said:
McMichael stated "the other night" they saw the same male and he stuck his hand down his pants which lead them to believe the male was armed.
I mean, if you're going to go this far, you have to kill the man so he has no story to tell and you can throw in a good old "hand down the pants" claim.
This goes way far for a citizen's arrest. "Immediate knowledge", how ever they define that, pushes citizen's arrest toward vigilantism.
 

rousseau

Contributor
Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.

But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

Sure, but this is like taking fifty alligators from Florida, trapping them in a small cage, then calling them violent because they get aggressive with one another. It has no relevance to the problem of racism at all.
 

Trausti

Contributor
But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

Sure, but this is like taking fifty alligators from Florida, trapping them in a small cage, then calling them violent because they get aggressive with one another. It has no relevance to the problem of racism at all.

You know, by your analogy, you're saying Blacks are inherently violent. Did you mean to convey that?
 

rousseau

Contributor
But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

Sure, but this is like taking fifty alligators from Florida, trapping them in a small cage, then calling them violent because they get aggressive with one another. It has no relevance to the problem of racism at all.

You know, by your analogy, you're saying Blacks are inherently violent. Did you mean to convey that?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that if you take any living animal and put them in dire economic conditions they will need to fight for survival. How do you expect anybody living in a ghetto to survive without getting violent?
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.

But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.
It is a stupid "whataboutism" which irrelevant to the actual discussion.
 

marc

Veteran Member
Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.

But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

and most crime committed against white people is by other white people. Criminals don't tend to commute long distances, preferring the people in their area.
 

Trausti

Contributor
But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.
It is a stupid "whataboutism" which irrelevant to the actual discussion.

Yeah, I'd agree. This is about whether it was reasonable for two guys to chase down someone they thought was a burglar, brandishing their guns. I don't think it was. But if you want to expand beyond this incident to societal criticisms, then don't bitch about "whataboutism."
 

Koyaanisqatsi

Veteran Member
But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

Sure, but this is like taking fifty alligators from Florida, trapping them in a small cage, then calling them violent because they get aggressive with one another. It has no relevance to the problem of racism at all.

You know, by your analogy, you're saying Blacks are inherently violent.

:confused: Alligators are not "inherently violent." Where did you get that asinine idea?
 

marc

Veteran Member
Report said:
McMichael stated "the other night" they saw the same male and he stuck his hand down his pants which lead them to believe the male was armed.
I mean, if you're going to go this far, you have to kill the man so he has no story to tell and you can throw in a good old "hand down the pants" claim.
This goes way far for a citizen's arrest. "Immediate knowledge", how ever they define that, pushes citizen's arrest toward vigilantism.

Of course this is an Open Carry state, so even if he was clearly carrying a weapon that is not supposed to be grounds for suspecting him of anything there.
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
Now we have a base of black people in the continental U.S. who are trying to build their lives in an atmosphere of pervasive racism. White people dominate the U.S., they dominate every aspect of the economy and culture. They are the owners of businesses, they are the people who run schools, they are the people who make laws. And even those who aren't killing black people in the streets likely still don't want to hire them or promote their livelihood in any capacity. Ok, now are you getting the picture?

Say, McFly, what decade are you in exactly ? There may be some areas of the USA where it is still like that and Georgia may one such area but certainly not where I live.
 

rousseau

Contributor
Now we have a base of black people in the continental U.S. who are trying to build their lives in an atmosphere of pervasive racism. White people dominate the U.S., they dominate every aspect of the economy and culture. They are the owners of businesses, they are the people who run schools, they are the people who make laws. And even those who aren't killing black people in the streets likely still don't want to hire them or promote their livelihood in any capacity. Ok, now are you getting the picture?

Say, McFly, what decade are you in exactly ? There may be some areas of the USA where it is still like that and Georgia may one such area but certainly not where I live.

The situation being improved over what it was like in the 20s or 30s doesn't mean it's a great situation for black people, or solved by any means. It just means the concrete ceiling has a few chinks in it.

I'm certainly not any kind of apologist, but it really takes some blinders to believe racism isn't still a serious problem in the U.S.
 

cycomiko

Member
Do you expect Arbery to just lay down on the ground and not try to fight his way out?

I think grabbing the barrel of a shotgun is a good way to get shot.

And I think that in the heat of the moment, when a gun is pointed at you, grabbing the barrel in an attempt to point it away from you or to disarm the guy is may be your only chance of survival. After being chased down by gun-toting rednecks I'm pretty sure most of us assume we're about to get shot anyway. Might as well try to get the fun and take them out first.
 
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