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Black Man in the Lab!

Nice Squirrel

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Only the Nice Squirrel can save us.
http://chronicle.com/article/Black-Man-in-the-Lab/149565/?cid=gs&utm_source=gs&utm_medium=en

For two decades, academic researchers have asked the same questions about black males in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, known as the STEM fields:

Why do black males underperform in grade-school and high-school math and science classrooms?

Why do so few pursue STEM degrees?

Of those who enter college with the intention to major in STEM fields, why do so many switch to other disciplines?

And among those who persist and graduate with science majors, why do so few proceed to Ph.D. programs?

STEM... Why is it a white man's world?
 
http://chronicle.com/article/Black-Man-in-the-Lab/149565/?cid=gs&utm_source=gs&utm_medium=en

For two decades, academic researchers have asked the same questions about black males in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, known as the STEM fields:

Why do black males underperform in grade-school and high-school math and science classrooms?

Why do so few pursue STEM degrees?

Of those who enter college with the intention to major in STEM fields, why do so many switch to other disciplines?

And among those who persist and graduate with science majors, why do so few proceed to Ph.D. programs?

STEM... Why is it a white man's world?

Brief check on the ground rules: are Asians white for this discussion?
 
Because modern science was developed by white people in Europe they culturally own it and thus black people doing science is racist "cultural appropriation" like blues or belly dancing.
</progressoauthoritarian if they were logically consistent with their arguments>
 
Because modern science was developed by white people in Europe they culturally own it and thus black people doing science is racist "cultural appropriation" like blues or belly dancing.
</progressoauthoritarian if they were logically consistent with their arguments>

LOL, good one.
 
http://chronicle.com/article/Black-Man-in-the-Lab/149565/?cid=gs&utm_source=gs&utm_medium=en

For two decades, academic researchers have asked the same questions about black males in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, known as the STEM fields:

Why do black males underperform in grade-school and high-school math and science classrooms?

Why do so few pursue STEM degrees?

Of those who enter college with the intention to major in STEM fields, why do so many switch to other disciplines?

And among those who persist and graduate with science majors, why do so few proceed to Ph.D. programs?

STEM... Why is it a white man's world?

As a STEM woman, I would venture to say because it is hard to continue to enjoy yourself in what can be a relentlessly hostile environment. You just get tired. And you start to realize life is too short for that.

That will certainly be at different levels for different people. And for different STEM disciplines. And for different ages. But it can be EXHAUSTING. You're not just doing STEM, you're doing STEM under a microscope and under fire. It is something that white men an asian men simply do not have to experience relentlessly. It is something taht creates a barrier. It's like having a McDonald's French Fry alarm constantly going in the background. It's a tougher work environment when you're black or female.

Neil deGrasse Tyson has addressed this, how many times he was asked what his back-up plan was or why he thought he could succeed in science or whether he was sure this was right for him. Watching and seeing that his white counterparts were not getting these questions.

I've watched black colleagues get questions that make no sense except to condemn and agitate; no sense. And I experienced a lot of it myself as a woman in school. It's there and it's real. We can get more STEM people by addressing it, but denial is strong despite the clear self-damaging nature of it.


That's not the ONLY thing, so a zillion anecdotes will exist. But it's a big thing. Elephant in the room. Why do the people we give the most shit to decide not to hang out with us?
 
Well, I was in California a few weeks back, spending time in the Bay area. I encountered lots of street vendors, panhandlers, and three persons in three different locations policing trash receptacles for salvageable discards. Only one of those persons was a black male. Am I onto something?
 
As a white STEM man I find Neil deGrasse Tyson annoying and really bad example of black STEMs.
In these astrophysics documentaries there are two other black dudes who are much better in my opinion and as far as I can tell they are actual scientists not just flamboyant science popularizers. But to be fair, I find Carl Sagan annoying and too flamboyant for my taste too. So it could be just my taste.

As for the the question then my answer would be genetics. Just today I saw a study where they linked violent criminals to specific genes.
And what if tomorrow they link STEM to specific genes which are much less common among blacks?
 
It's probably harder to get into a STEM career when you're stuck in poverty with all its attendant hassles.

eta: or in jail
 
It's probably harder to get into a STEM career when you're stuck in poverty with all its attendant hassles.

eta: or in jail

not harder than medicine or law. And there are a lot of black doctors and lawyers. One of them even became a president.
 
My anecdotal evidence/experience suggests plenty of white people tried to get an engineering degree, but flopped out and went into easier majors.

I'd be interested in seeing statistics that relate people with parents that have college educations verses not... and the type of degree their children obtained in college.
 
As for the the question then my answer would be genetics. Just today I saw a study where they linked violent criminals to specific genes.
And what if tomorrow they link STEM to specific genes which are much less common among blacks?
To me it's more about familiarity with a profession. Yes, there may be an inheritable genetic component but in my experience kids tend to emulate their peers and parents more than anything else. It was inconceivable to me to become a doctor as a young person. I wanted a more normal job like working in a steel mill. Becoming an engineer or a computer scientist was also inconceivably difficult. But if my parents had been professionals I think the prospects would have been very different. Certain things would not have seemed so impossible.

I should add that I'm one of Jimmy Higgins STEM dropouts.
 
As for the the question then my answer would be genetics.

Possibly, but much more likely for the same reason there aren't lots of Billy Elliots. Humans naturally tend during the critical formative years to pursue niches which people who look and sound like themselves fill. It's very unlikely that boys from pit villages in the North of England are genetically less capable of ballet dancing than upper middle class boys in London, but way more likely that the latter will pursue it while so doing counts.

ETA : what joedad said
 
My anecdotal evidence/experience suggests plenty of white people tried to get an engineering degree, but flopped out and went into easier majors.
My own anecdotal experience is that my middle daughter was aiming for a BS with a major in anthropology to then flop out after 2 years and redirected herself towards a BA with a major in Creative Writing. Whereas my eldest remained steady with a BA major in World History and youngest steady aiming now for his MBA. Both girls motivated in their completion of their College degree by their pre existing "passions" whereas my son took a path where his focus has been " I want to make money".

I'd be interested in seeing statistics that relate people with parents that have college educations verses not... and the type of degree their children obtained in college.
Personal anecdote again : IMO my son's choice of superior education propelling him towards Business has been influenced by his now deceased paternal grand father's position as a Faculty Member and Dean (International Finance) at FSU and his father's graduating with a major in Finance (Bachelor's). No doubt that my middle daughter's initial passion for Arts was influenced by my own choice of College Education.Same with the eldest.
 
As for the the question then my answer would be genetics. Just today I saw a study where they linked violent criminals to specific genes.
And what if tomorrow they link STEM to specific genes which are much less common among blacks?
To me it's more about familiarity with a profession. Yes, there may be an inheritable genetic component but in my experience kids tend to emulate their peers and parents more than anything else. It was inconceivable to me to become a doctor as a young person. I wanted a more normal job like working in a steel mill. Becoming an engineer or a computer scientist was also inconceivably difficult. But if my parents had been professionals I think the prospects would have been very different. Certain things would not have seemed so impossible.

I should add that I'm one of Jimmy Higgins STEM dropouts.
Most scientist don't have parents who are scientists (I certainly did not). So there is very little emulation here.
And despite common belief children of scientists rarely go into science. I mean you ARE more likely to follow your parents but it's probably 5% at best. There might be some psychology here at play but it is what it is.
 
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http://chronicle.com/article/Black-Man-in-the-Lab/149565/?cid=gs&utm_source=gs&utm_medium=en

For two decades, academic researchers have asked the same questions about black males in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, known as the STEM fields:

Why do black males underperform in grade-school and high-school math and science classrooms?

Why do so few pursue STEM degrees?

Of those who enter college with the intention to major in STEM fields, why do so many switch to other disciplines?

And among those who persist and graduate with science majors, why do so few proceed to Ph.D. programs?

STEM... Why is it a white man's world?

My own experience (and I have substantial experience here)

1) Schools. The truth is, many public schools do nothing to prepare their students for college, period. Back when I was getting my BSEE, even many of the white students had no idea how to actually take a test - they'd get the right answer and then fool themselves out of it, they had no study habits to speak of, and so on. Black students get it even worse. We know that:

a) Black students face far harsher discipline than white students, even when they act the same way, and this leads to more suspensions, which only hurts them academically.

b) They're more likely to go to grossly underfunded schools - often to the point where they never do any sort of experiment in science classes, for example. For these kids, experiments are something done on tv, and their classes are just painful exercises that have no connection to reality.

c) Yes, they do sometimes face teachers who actively discourage them from interest in math or science.

2) Costs. College is becoming increasingly expensive, the payoff for any PhD is becoming increasingly bad, especially in academia. In truth, I'd prefer to get a second Masters Degree, to a PhD. I suspect it'd be worth far more to me. For that matter, I know kids who were thinking of going to college, but were told by their family that they needed to get a job, because they couldn't afford to keep them up. Given that, for historical reasons, black households are far poorer than white households, this is more true for black potential students.

3) Yes, going to college is often a culture shock, and this is more true for many black students, who were used to their segregated neighborhood, moving to a mostly white school, and suddenly dealing with a very different culture. Combine this with a large number of white students who have never met a black person before, and it can get...very irritating, very quickly.

ETA: I forgot this one: 4) lack of access. For mental health counseling (there's a nasty stigma around this in many black communities), for tutoring, for mentoring, for diagnosing learning disorders. For internships, also. To computers with programming tools, in some cases.
 
Most scientist don't have parents who are scientists (I certainly did not). So there is very little emulation here.

It would be fucking remarkable if most scientist would have parents that are scientist cause that would be a really awesome overrepresentation.

But there is an enormous overrepresentation of children of academics in higher education.
 
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