Black militia man shoots a police officer in the head in Florida

[TomC]

Most of the enslaved being African does not mean all of the enslaved are African. Who are the rest of the slaves if not all Africans? to my knowledge a lot of Dubai's slaves are also from India & Asia. Did the Europeans Enslave people from India &/or Asia (that did not happen to have brown enough skin to be mistaken for African?).

Actually, the Europeans did enslave some Asians. Particularly, the Portuguese. Not to mention the indigenous people of the Americas, which were also definitely enslaved.

The extensive use of African slavery was due to their use in sugar plantations. As I'm sure you are probably aware.

Ok if that's the case then the European type of slavery was not unique. Was that so hard?

But it was unique.
It was on the largest scale the world has ever seen. It was intercontinental. It was unique.

Race had little to do with any of that. Had Iberians been as willing to enslave and sell other Iberians as Africans were the history might be very different.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The point I'm driving home here is for all the folks who like to say things like, America's involvement in slavery is nothing to wink at because slavery has been around for ages. Not their type of slavery. There was something way more evil and deliberate about theirs.

Slavery has generally been of defeated outgroups. The Europeans are the only society that has been in a position to take slaves from areas of other races, the fact that they are the only ones to have done so is meaningless.

Loren, stop with this. This just isn't true. Again, you only have to look at the Islamic slave trade.

The Islamic slave trade didn't involve going nearly as far as the Europeans did.

It is basically the same thing, though--enslave the outgroup. It's just they did it to neighbors.

 

[Jarhyn]

Similar in what way? I said European slavery was uniquely evil because no other nation has done it the way they did. Which was to enslave people based on the color of their skin. People on this thread seem to be taking this statement as me claiming it was the worst of all slavery. Get over yourselves man. Is what I said true or not? You yourself gave some examples but I call bullshit on those. for example enslaving people because they are not Musilum is not the same as enslaving people over the stimulation of photoreceptor cells by electromagnetic radiation.

I would caution you on that. Is there any moral distinction between enslaving a person because your photoreceptors weren't tickled by the right photons, and enslaving a person because your audio receptors were not tickled by the right twitches? I don't think it is a distinction I would make. It rubs up against No-True-Scotsman.

People can choose to be non-muslim but they can't choose the color of their skin. If that's an appeal to purity then I'm guilty as charged.

The thing is, I can no more choose to be Muslim than I can choose to be black. I could go to some lengths to fake either (I would not for myriad reasons), but that would not make a truth of it. And ethnically, I don't think it would matter whether Emerati slaves converted or not. They would still not be "Emerati".

As I have said, I count you among my friends in this place. You seem to have a level head on your shoulders and for me this isn't a hill I would sacrifice that on, not really.

The reality is that I see this as an incident of necessity, and the victims on both sides victims of that necessity, the specific need itself being the abject need to respond to a system of oppression. And so he must see consequences. And the police have already seen the consequences. That's all there really is, here: a tragedy of the police doing nothing to curb their unacceptable behavior, and a victim of that unacceptable behavior responding in an equally "unacceptable" way, but the only way seemingly left available. This is what happens when people do not of their own volition make amends and change for the better when they were previously in the wrong. Sure the consequences now are poor, but the consequences of reaching breaking point are so obviously worse.

I agree with your general point: nobody else made a religion that proclaimed it the natural and correct state of the world that one whole race be subjugated beneath one whole other race as chattel. Even India did not take it's racial castes so far.

 

[Gospel]

People can choose to be non-muslim but they can't choose the color of their skin. If that's an appeal to purity then I'm guilty as charged.

The thing is, I can no more choose to be Muslim than I can choose to be black. I could go to some lengths to fake either (I would not for myriad reasons), but that would not make a truth of it. And ethnically, I don't think it would matter whether Emerati slaves converted or not. They would still not be "Emerati".

As I have said, I count you among my friends in this place. You seem to have a level head on your shoulders and for me this isn't a hill I would sacrifice that on, not really.

The reality is that I see this as an incident of necessity, and the victims on both sides victims of that necessity, the specific need itself being the abject need to respond to a system of oppression. And so he must see consequences. And the police have already seen the consequences. That's all there really is, here: a tragedy of the police doing nothing to curb their unacceptable behavior, and a victim of that unacceptable behavior responding in an equally "unacceptable" way, but the only way seemingly left available. This is what happens when people do not of their own volition make amends and change for the better when they were previously in the wrong. Sure the consequences now are poor, but the consequences of reaching breaking point are so obviously worse.

I agree with your general point: nobody else made a religion that proclaimed it the natural and correct state of the world that one whole race be subjugated beneath one whole other race as chattel. Even India did not take it's racial castes so far.

You not choosing to be Muslim does not equal you didn't have the choice. Anyway, I've been proven wrong. The European style of slavery is not unique.

 

[Jarhyn]

People can choose to be non-muslim but they can't choose the color of their skin. If that's an appeal to purity then I'm guilty as charged.

The thing is, I can no more choose to be Muslim than I can choose to be black. I could go to some lengths to fake either (I would not for myriad reasons), but that would not make a truth of it. And ethnically, I don't think it would matter whether Emerati slaves converted or not. They would still not be "Emerati".

As I have said, I count you among my friends in this place. You seem to have a level head on your shoulders and for me this isn't a hill I would sacrifice that on, not really.

The reality is that I see this as an incident of necessity, and the victims on both sides victims of that necessity, the specific need itself being the abject need to respond to a system of oppression. And so he must see consequences. And the police have already seen the consequences. That's all there really is, here: a tragedy of the police doing nothing to curb their unacceptable behavior, and a victim of that unacceptable behavior responding in an equally "unacceptable" way, but the only way seemingly left available. This is what happens when people do not of their own volition make amends and change for the better when they were previously in the wrong. Sure the consequences now are poor, but the consequences of reaching breaking point are so obviously worse.

I agree with your general point: nobody else made a religion that proclaimed it the natural and correct state of the world that one whole race be subjugated beneath one whole other race as chattel. Even India did not take it's racial castes so far.

You not choosing to be Muslim does not equal you didn't have the choice. Anyway, I've been proven wrong. The European style of slavery is not unique.

'not choosing to be'... Belief does not work that way. I cannot decide to believe something. I either believe something or I don't.

 

[Gospel]

You not choosing to be Muslim does not equal you didn't have the choice. Anyway, I've been proven wrong. The European style of slavery is not unique.

'not choosing to be'... Belief does not work that way. I cannot decide to believe something. I either believe something or I don't.

Not all Muslims have brown skin.

 

[Jarhyn]

You not choosing to be Muslim does not equal you didn't have the choice. Anyway, I've been proven wrong. The European style of slavery is not unique.

'not choosing to be'... Belief does not work that way. I cannot decide to believe something. I either believe something or I don't.

Not all Muslims have brown skin.

Absolutely true. But all actual Muslims are Muslim because they believe in Islam. And people cannot choose to believe. It just ...happens. generally you can STOP believing something, but when you stop, it's really hard to come to believe it again. Unless it's you believing I'm an idiot. I'm sure that's been an on-again-off-again thing, I'm sure. And don't answer that, except maybe in PM.

 

[J842P]

Ok if that's the case then the European type of slavery was not unique. Was that so hard?

But it was unique.
It was on the largest scale the world has ever seen. It was intercontinental. It was unique.

Race had little to do with any of that. Had Iberians been as willing to enslave and sell other Iberians as Africans were the history might be very different.
Tom

Yeah, the intercontinental nature, particularly, the transatlantic nature, did make it unique.

 

[J842P]

Not all Muslims have brown skin.

Absolutely true. But all actual Muslims are Muslim because they believe in Islam. And people cannot choose to believe. It just ...happens. generally you can STOP believing something, but when you stop, it's really hard to come to believe it again. Unless it's you believing I'm an idiot. I'm sure that's been an on-again-off-again thing, I'm sure. And don't answer that, except maybe in PM.

Yeah, and also, it doesn't help you much if you are, say, an East African man who is not Muslim, who is then sold into slavery into the Muslim world, then is castrated and put to work as a eunuch. I guess it's great that maybe eventually you could become a highly valued slave that at some point finagles your slave status into a relatively good one after a conversion to Islam. But in the Islamic slave system, just because you converted to Islam did not mean you were required to be freed.

I mean, you could also be a Stephen Warren in the Southern states of the USA.

 

[Derec]

Not all Muslims have brown skin.

Are you really that ignorant of the woke American Left?

A Muslim is automatically considered "brown" no matter how light their skin is. As Linda "the Cockroach" Sarsour said, before she put on the hijab, she was just another white woman.
'Before wearing a hijab, I was just an ordinary white girl'

 

[Bomb#20]

What is that quality they lack? If they happen to have not lacked this quality would they have not been enslaved? When the Europeans enslaved Africans is there a quality an African would have had that would have caused the Europeans to not enslave said African? And I'm not talking about missing Arms/legs (but if you want to be the typical semantic prick I'll accept that answer then ignore you).

The "quality" is being an Emerati Muslim. That is the entirety of it. It is racial, but of the "you are not *" rather than of the "you are *" variety. Most of the enslaved are, ironically, African afaik.

The quality that would have spared Africans? Being a white European probably would have done it.

Have you thought about why the word for "slave" in so many European languages is some variation on "slave"? In ancient Latin it was "servus"; in Old English it was "thraell". But during the intervening centuries the vernacular word became "slave".

Did the Europeans Enslave people from India &/or Asia (that did not happen to have brown enough skin to be mistaken for African?).

Yes. Not only that, Europeans enslaved so many other white Europeans they named the institution after them.

 

[Derec]

Similar in what way? I said European slavery was uniquely evil because no other nation has done it the way they did. Which was to enslave people based on the color of their skin.

Arab Muslims enslaved black Africans as well. In fact, slavery was legal in the Arab world well into the 20th century. Which is why it is so ridiculous when black supremacists/nationalists convert to Islam for ideological reasons.

Malcolm the 10th visited Saudi Arabia only a year after the Kingdom abolished slavery.


However, what does this slavery derail have to do with black supremacist militias and one of their members shooting a police officer in the head?
By the way, Othal Wallace was caught in a treehouse on a NFAC compound situated pretty much exactly on the eastern corner of DeKalb County.

To bring the thread back on topic, here is more about "O Zone".
Man arrested in cop shooting had history with extremism

The bit about him becoming a "martyr" (or should I say "shaheed") for black supremacists/nationalists is very true. That piece of racist shit has become very popular on Black Twitter.

 

[Derec]

Name one Modern European nation that did not enslave African's and we can talk.

Enslave African's what? And which African do you have in mind?
Oh, you must mean "Africans". Apostrophes indicate possessives, NOT plurals.

And to answer your question, how about the nations of the Balkans? During the relevant historical period, they were busy fighting off the yoke of Muslim Turks to do anything at all to Africans (or "African's" as you wrote).

 

[Derec]

You're sure making amends for that "mistake" now, though.

Hardly. I can be against Trump and against #BLM and Antifa. Pox on all their houses!
.

Trying to equate Property Damage caused in the course of protest

You still keep minimizing the left-wing insurrections. Yes, there was property damage, but there also have been murders like that of David Dorn, Aaron Danielson and Secoriea Turner.
And the rioters also attacked and sometimes destroyed government buildings - police stations, courthouses, ICE offices.
It is a big deal and Democrats and mainstream media downplaying the left-wing insurrections is a scandal frankly.

by people who have been dying by the score at the hands of police,

Vast majority of police shootings are justified. For example the recent shooting in Chicago.
Man killed in Chicago police shooting in West Garfield Park ID'd: CPD

And people of all races get killed by police. Black people constitute less than a fourth of the total.

and who have suffered for hundreds of years at the hands of privileged white people

What are they? Vampires? To have suffered for hundreds of years, I mean.

Most of the people involved in #BLM riots are under 30. That means they were born after 1990, long after Civil Rights Act was passed. They were 18 or younger when Obama was elected president. So how have they "suffered" exactly? By having preferential admissions to colleges, universities and professional schools on account of their skin color maybe?
And a lot of them are white anyway, esp. in places with relatively small black population like Portland, which has suffered ongoing riots since last year.

- equating that with a violent, murderous mob of privileged white people

Sure, a violent, murderous mob of left-wing black and white people is very different.

attempting to end American democracy, kill duly elected representatives and institute an autocracy -

That was pretty much the goal of Black Panthers and related left-wing extremist groups that still enjoy high popularity on the left.
And note that the Communist feminist "May 19th Organization" actually bombed the Senate in the 80s. But I guess when leftists do it, it's just "property damage".
A black supremacist Noah Green attacked the Capitol in April, killing a Capitol police officer, but that attack disappeared down the memory hole quick.

all because the murderous orang psychopath they favored LOST AN ELECTION!

And had he won, there'd be rioting on the other side, I guarantee it.
Capitol would have probably been attacked too. Or at least the White House.

That kind of false equivalence is sheer scumbaggery by any measure.
tRump would be beaming with pride to know you're out there "fighting" for him so stridently.

I am not fighting for him. The 1/6 rioters need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But so should the #BLM/Antifa rioters who caused a lot more deaths and yes, property damage, over the long months of rioting since last June, not even to mention all the riots since they burned down Ferguson twice in 2014.
"Burn this bitch down!" indeed.

 

[Derec]

That was an armed insurgency intended to topple the democratically elected government of the country by invading the seat of government. And they succeeded in disrupting our lawmakers from doing their job for several hours. That's why it gets brought up all the time. Because its a pretty big fucking deal.

I am not saying January 6th wasn't bad. It was. But so were the (often armed) left-wing (#BLM and Antifa) insurrections in multiple cities over many months that resulted in murders, businesses destroyed, government buildings vandalized or burned down, territory occupied and so on. Posters in this forum are downplaying and dismissing these insurrections as well as heavily armed black supremacist militias like Othal Wallace belonged to.

Most reasonable people agree that ALL forms of violent extremism are bad.

Yes, but reasonable people are in short supply these days.

I don't think you will find many people here rejecting this basic premise.

Black and/or left-wing extremism is routinely getting downplayed. Not only here, but also in the media.

I do wonder why you only highlight bad acts committed by black people. Where is your outrage when white gunmen go on shooting rampages and kill people? Where are all the threads you have started to express your outrage at these incidents?

Elixir et al are quick to start threads on those incidents. Do you ever chastise them for doing so?

 

[Gospel]

Not all Muslims have brown skin.

Are you really that ignorant of the woke American Left?

A Muslim is automatically considered "brown" no matter how light their skin is. As Linda "the Cockroach" Sarsour said, before she put on the hijab, she was just another white woman.
'Before wearing a hijab, I was just an ordinary white girl'

Bruh you're late to the party. As were all your other replies. The only thing valuable you added to the derail was getting back on topic.