http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad...ng/2016/08/bosses-pay-the-rights-problem.html
Bring on the revolution.
Bring on the revolution.
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Bosses pay: the right's problem
- Thread starter ksen
- Start date
If a company is doing well enough to raise its CEO's pay, then wouldn't the smart thing be to find out what industry the company is in and tap into that same market? Companies only profit when consumers exchange money for goods and services. Companies are not guaranteed a profit. Instead of envying someone else's success, maybe take risks yourself to increase your income.
That's probably news to them.
Lol, it's cute there are people out there that still think we are some sort of meritocracy.
The trick would seem to be to start a company where you pay your CEO very little and pocket the difference.
Nice Squirrel
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Hahahahahaha
Performance does not equal pay.
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Tell us how that works.
You a) start a company; b) pay the CEO less; and c) pocket the difference.
Where do you think companies get their money? If you think CEOs make too much, then start your own business and pay what you think is reasonable.
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Just because you can't handle the risk of starting your own business doesn't mean others should be punished for taking the chance.
Which of these FTSE 100 CEOs started their corporation?
Jimmy Higgins
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CEO's appear to get paid well regardless of performance.
Anyone can start a business, ksen. You're in Florida, here you go: http://dos.myflorida.com/library-archives/research/florida-information/business/starting-a-business-in-florida/
All the companies on the FTSE, or NYSE, or Nasdaq, and all private companies, from corporations to LLCs, were created by someone. At one time none of them existed. Instead of interloping on others' success, start your own business and run it as you like.
Right, it's the capitalists that start the companies and hire the CEOs. Time for capitalists to start paying CEOs less so capitalists can have more.
Thanks! I've helped start quite a few corporations using that site.
This is true. What's also true is that the people that started these businesses didn't pay themselves 300 times what they paid their lower level employees. Unlike today where a guy comes in that has nothing to do with starting the business and manages to negotiate for himself a pay differential of that much.
Again, what do the CEO's in the OP article have to do with guys that started these businesses? Best as I can tell nothing. They leeched onto someone else's success and are milking it for as much as they can before moving on to their next
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There's always room for you in the reloveution buddy!
untermensche
Contributor
The success of most corporations has something to do with passing some of their bills to the government or avoiding legal tax obligation through manipulation of one kind or another.
The oil industry gets huge legal tax breaks all over the place. The government spends massively to ensure the oil market includes US interests. The government spends massively to defend the oil interests and governments that give US corporations access to oil profits and some control over where oil goes. Governments like the Saudi government.
The US has spent massively to disrupt Venezuela to regain profits for US corporations.
There really is no need for these oil corporations. The government could do everything they do cheaper.
But they exist as a wealthy ruling class because they control the process, they control elections and the government.
Not just the oil corporations but the banking corporations and the defense manufacturing corporations and the pharmaceutical corporations.
The banking corporations save billions because they do not buy insurance the same way everyone else has to buy insurance for the things that could effect others.
A little condo owner has to have full insurance to rebuild just to sustain property values but the banks rely on the government as the insurance policy when they fail.
This story of parasitical corporations living in some way off the government goes on and on. This barely scratches the surface.
The issue in not the pay of bosses.
The issue is the destructive nature of bosses and the fact that we don't need them.
We can easily manage without bosses.
They cannot manage without those they boss around and live as a parasite off.
The oil industry gets huge legal tax breaks all over the place. The government spends massively to ensure the oil market includes US interests. The government spends massively to defend the oil interests and governments that give US corporations access to oil profits and some control over where oil goes. Governments like the Saudi government.
The US has spent massively to disrupt Venezuela to regain profits for US corporations.
There really is no need for these oil corporations. The government could do everything they do cheaper.
But they exist as a wealthy ruling class because they control the process, they control elections and the government.
Not just the oil corporations but the banking corporations and the defense manufacturing corporations and the pharmaceutical corporations.
The banking corporations save billions because they do not buy insurance the same way everyone else has to buy insurance for the things that could effect others.
A little condo owner has to have full insurance to rebuild just to sustain property values but the banks rely on the government as the insurance policy when they fail.
This story of parasitical corporations living in some way off the government goes on and on. This barely scratches the surface.
The issue in not the pay of bosses.
The issue is the destructive nature of bosses and the fact that we don't need them.
We can easily manage without bosses.
They cannot manage without those they boss around and live as a parasite off.
How about a simple fix to ensure that the companies are getting appropriate value for their money:
Instead of attempting to cap pay which will result in all sort of market distortions, lets tie it to how the company performs:
Any pay in excess of $1m/yr must be in the form of shares of company stock to be delivered at the rate of $1m of current value per year. (The guy is going to get $5m, the current share price is $20. He gets $1m, in each of the next 4 years he gets 50k shares.) To prevent shenanigans it is illegal to willingly engage in any transaction where you benefit when the value of such pending shares goes down. If you do so inadvertently (for example, you invested in a mutual fund that shorted the company) then all profit from the transaction is forfeited. Each year is treated independently, you can get shares from multiple past years at the same time.
This makes the top people care about the long term performance of the company rather than aiming to get the share price as high as possible now, screw the future.
Instead of attempting to cap pay which will result in all sort of market distortions, lets tie it to how the company performs:
Any pay in excess of $1m/yr must be in the form of shares of company stock to be delivered at the rate of $1m of current value per year. (The guy is going to get $5m, the current share price is $20. He gets $1m, in each of the next 4 years he gets 50k shares.) To prevent shenanigans it is illegal to willingly engage in any transaction where you benefit when the value of such pending shares goes down. If you do so inadvertently (for example, you invested in a mutual fund that shorted the company) then all profit from the transaction is forfeited. Each year is treated independently, you can get shares from multiple past years at the same time.
This makes the top people care about the long term performance of the company rather than aiming to get the share price as high as possible now, screw the future.
Your bible says this must be because it couldn't have collapsed on its own. That doesn't make it so.
Government rarely manages to do things cheaper.
No law requires you to ensure anything but your car. The only time home insurance is required is by the mortgage lender--while you're free to take risks they won't let you take risks with their collateral.
You continue to assert this, always without evidence. I've seen what happens when the boss isn't doing the job and it's not pretty. People optimize their own aspect of the job even if that causes the overall system to be less efficient. (For example, doing the job that's right there rather than hunting down the job at the top of their schedule. The result being if a job became even slightly hidden it would get stuck.)
untermensche
Contributor
It doesn't do things that are outsourced to some corporation cheaper. Like defense spending to some corporate entity.
But when you eliminate the profit motive you do things cheaper, like government Medicare.
You ever heard of a HOA? Many of them require you maintain enough insurance to rebuild to make sure the value of all isn't effected by one.
But the banks just put the costs of their government insurance policy (Too big to fail) onto the government.
It happens every day all over the globe. The Spanish Anarchists proved it could work on a large industrial scale.
The future is worker ownership and control.
Or there is no future.
The bosses are driving us towards a cliff.
Canard DuJour
Veteran Member
"Across the board, the more CEOs get paid, the worse their companies do over the next three years, according to extensive new research. This is true whether they’re CEOs at the highest end of the pay spectrum or the lowest."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanad...worst-performers-new-study-says/#4eaad0e8293a
There are umpteen other ways to profit : pumping up share prices, mergers and acquisitions, asset stripping, raiding pension funds, externalising costs, bidding down wages..
When you eliminate the competition you remove the drive to improve efficiency and thus costs go up.
And Medicare is "cheaper" because of off-the-books costs (the IRS provides most of their revenue side) and because they can use the government hammer to force doctors to do things that would be lawsuit city if done by a private company. Not to mention how Medicare coverage is increasingly about checking off the boxes rather than delivering care.
Ok, but that's still a private entity.
They weren't doing it long enough for things to run off the rails too badly.
No, you keep trying to take the wheel and run us in a straight line, never mind the cliff there.
Medicine Man
Member
Ya' might want to double-check those companies' compensation-packages....before you "tap into" anything!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_parachute
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...of-100-million-for-fired-ceos-outlive-outrage
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http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1848501,00.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_parachute
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...of-100-million-for-fired-ceos-outlive-outrage
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http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1848501,00.html
Medicine Man
Member
BIG 10-4!!!!!
March 29, 2007
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-the-influence/
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-forget-the-lessons-of-Bush-s-Medicare-reform
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http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/002818.htm
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http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000285.htm
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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/lessons_from_the_medicare_pres.html
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-Medicare-D-Rollout-Glitches-Neither-does-GOP
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http://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/cent...ntegrity/medicare-drug-bill.html#.V6x8faLSmMJ
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http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Thomas_A._Scully
March 29, 2007
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-the-influence/
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-forget-the-lessons-of-Bush-s-Medicare-reform
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http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/002818.htm
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http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000285.htm
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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/lessons_from_the_medicare_pres.html
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-Medicare-D-Rollout-Glitches-Neither-does-GOP
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http://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/cent...ntegrity/medicare-drug-bill.html#.V6x8faLSmMJ
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http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Thomas_A._Scully