Bring Back the Draft

[Colonel Sanders]

One of the many complaints people have here in the U.S. is that we're always at war. For the most part, that's been true since WW1. It finally reached a head during the Vietnam War, when the people declared that they'd had enough.

The foundational question was, "Why should I have to go fight in a war I don't believe in?" Families asked the same questions with respect to their children and other young relatives.

It was Nixon that ended the draft. Does anyone believe it was because he had a kind heart and cared for the suffering of others? Hell, it was one of the most cynical moves in American history. He was fed up with protests and decided to quell the anger by implementing the all volunteer military. And it worked. It also served to raise tax dollars to build an enormous military industrial complex. More spending and benefits for soldiers, and more money for defense contractors.

We were in Afghanistan and Iraq for what, 20+ years? The public didn't give a fuck because if someone they knew was in the military, they were "heroes who chose to serve their country."

The only people who have skin in the game are the military members who actually have to go, whether the cause is good or not. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is insulated from conflict, and if it goes on long enough, nobody cares.

Starting a draft would quickly wipe away the apathy that so many people have towards what the U.S. does overseas. People, particularly young people are super insulated from the reality of world affairs. The machine they rage against is McDonald's charging $12 for a Big Mac meal. Oh, and they don't show up to vote. That's because the majority aren't negatively affected by much.

Put them in a uniform to go fight somewhere though? Suddenly those petty grievances will fall by the wayside. Suddenly they'll care about a lot more than getting upvotes on Reddit.

I believe a new draft would transform the nation from tens of millions of apathetic know-nothings into a much more politically active and united citizenry, while at the same time making our government a lot more cautious about getting into wars we don't need.

I understand the likelihood of this is infinitesimal, but I do think it would be good.

Okay, hit me upside the head.

 

[Patooka]

Civil service > military service. Fuck the draft.

 

[bilby]

The military is what the US has instead of a proper welfare state.

In the civilised world, families that have no work get paid by the nation so they don't starve.

In the USA, they send a child or two to join the military.

With luck, those kids get to spend a decade or so painting rocks white and policing up the filter tips at a base in Bumfuck, AK. Less lucky are the ones who end up in Thule, Greenland, preparing for the invasion. Least lucky are the ones who get shot in some Middle Eastern shithole for incomprehensible reasons.

But all of them send a paycheck home to mom and pop.

It's a very inefficient way to transfer wealth from the taxpayers to the poor and unemployed. The US doesn't need the vast military it has built. It uses almost none of it in actual war fighting. But it stops vast numbers of (mostly rural) Americans from starving. And it can be spun by politicians as patriotism, rather than socialism.

And it results in lots of people with no real hope or prospects, who know how to shoot a rifle. This may not be ideal.

Of course, once you have a big military, there's a tendency to want to use it. To a politician with a hammer, every foreign policy problem looks like a nail.

 

[TV and credit cards]

But setting aside whether or not one world cop is needed and the least bad option for world peace, there are benefits to bringing back the draft. Of course it would have to be without out waiver, that is, the rich and powerful not being able to buy their kids out of it or having any influence in their kid's assignment. Doing so would help with exhausting every diplomatic avenue to settling disputes between nations. A draft with GI Bill would do away with student college/voc tech debt and train a nation in the process, a win/win. I think high school kids serving their country in the military or civil service would have more mature adults entering college and decrease the attrition rate. Two years of civil service in an impoverished nation will not just help the impoverished nation but the young civil servant seeing how the actual other half lives. It might just keep fewer impoverished individuals from trekking to the US southern border. Boy, another win/win. Why aren't we doing this already?

 

[bilby]

Why aren't we doing this already?

Because freedom is not just a right-wing slogan, but an actual thing, wherein people are not forced to do stuff they wouldn't voluntarily do.

If you want young Americans to do service - civil or military - but they don't want to do it, then that is a sign that you ain't offering enough in exchange.

There are two solutions - provide better pay and conditions (and pay the taxes to fund them), or be a totalitarian shithole that enslaves its youth.

Or just stick with a voluntary military. One volunteer is worth three pressed men, as the Royal Navy observed more than two centuries ago.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Why aren't we doing this already?

Because freedom is not just a right-wing slogan, but an actual thing, wherein people are not forced to do stuff they wouldn't voluntarily do.

If you want young Americans to do service - civil or military - but they don't want to do it, then that is a sign that you ain't offering enough in exchange.

There are two solutions - provide better pay and conditions (and pay the taxes to fund them), or be a totalitarian shithole that enslaves its youth.

Or just stick with a voluntary military. One volunteer is worth three pressed men, as the Royal Navy observed more than two centuries ago.

I can get on the civil service boat, but that doesn't stop military aggression and overspending.

I think it was Rousseau who talked about not just what a government owed its citizens, but just as importantly, what the citizenry's obligations to its government. I agree with that concept. A citizenry with no skin in the most important games is an apathetic and easily manipulated one.

I'm unsure what you're talking about with respect to better pay, etc. If it's about the military, even a private straight out of boot camp is paid relatively well. Free housing, free food, free medical benefits, and even a clothing allowance each year. I blew all my paychecks in the army until I was about 6 months away from ETS'ing. Then I went into hermit mode and saved nearly 5K. That was back in 1994 or so.

Draftees now vs. Draftees then is apples and oranges. See immediately above.

The military signs up about 150,000 people per year. If just 10% of those were draftees, it would make a huge difference in the public's attention to foreign policy and military expenditures.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

FREEDOMMMMM.

Anyway, draft.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

The best way to ensure a competent military is by forcing people to be in the military.