• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Calling all Swedes

DrZoidberg said:
Sweden has a system to encourage people to move away from big cities. Sweden has zero housing shortage outside the big cities. I have no clue why Sweden has this policy, but it's by design. Yes, I hate it to.
Click to expand...

It's not design, it's just that not enough apartments get built. Might have something to do with that there are many rules surrounding it, and that certain people get upset whenever anything changes in the city.

DrZoidberg said:
When it comes to eduction... we're fine. We're somewhere above France and Spain and below the UK and USA. And we're all below Japan and Russia. Russia inherited and excellent educational system from USSR, one of the few things communist countries do right. And Japan has a culture where you're fucked if you don't get a uni degree. I don't get the fixation with being best in the world. I'm happy as long as we're not way below. We're mid-field. We've been mid-field since they started measuring in the 70'ies. I'm happy about that. We do have something to be proud of though. Education is free. So whether or not you have a degree is not a class-marker in Sweden. I think that is awesome.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about our elemntary education, which regularly gets trashed by PISA and OECD. Our university education is mostly fine.

DrZoidberg said:
I'll give you poor integration of immigrants. We suck at that.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

DrZoidberg said:
And our unemployment rate is 7.9 which is bad. But it's not a disaster. Also, easily fixed by liberalising employment laws IMHO.
Click to expand...

It's not a disaster. However among young people and immigrants, unemployment is among the highest in northern Europe.

DrZoidberg said:
Tammuz said:
And I don't have faith in our politicians, I despise them.
Click to expand...

Maybe not you, but Swedes in general obviously do. Faith in politicians can be measured in how healthy public debate is. People who despise politicians give up and stop discussing politics... because there's no point.

And faith in our financial system is not the same thing as faith in our politicians.
Click to expand...

Ehm, you think our public debate is sane?:eek:

And yes, of course financial sytem is not the same as politicians.
 
barbos said:
And another thing which swedes suck at is catching russian submarines :)
Click to expand...
They are focused on deterrence.

img_0738.jpg
 
Tammuz said:
It's not design, it's just that not enough apartments get built. Might have something to do with that there are many rules surrounding it, and that certain people get upset whenever anything changes in the city.
Click to expand...

"Hyrestaket". Rent control is idiotic. It has never worked in any city it has been implemented. It's a money-for-nothing law where house builders are supposed to build houses out of generosity, rather than for profit. It's retarded. If that law is removed Stockholm, Malmö and Gothemburg will start building like crazy. Eventually we'll get past capacity and rents will fall to below what they are now. It always happens whenever rent controls are removed.

If there's a type of regulation that always leads to a pattern of behaviour then that behaviour is the desired result. Anything else is being dishonest.

Tammuz said:
DrZoidberg said:
When it comes to eduction... we're fine. We're somewhere above France and Spain and below the UK and USA. And we're all below Japan and Russia. Russia inherited and excellent educational system from USSR, one of the few things communist countries do right. And Japan has a culture where you're fucked if you don't get a uni degree. I don't get the fixation with being best in the world. I'm happy as long as we're not way below. We're mid-field. We've been mid-field since they started measuring in the 70'ies. I'm happy about that. We do have something to be proud of though. Education is free. So whether or not you have a degree is not a class-marker in Sweden. I think that is awesome.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about our elemntary education, which regularly gets trashed by PISA and OECD. Our university education is mostly fine.
Click to expand...

https://data.oecd.org/pisa/mathematics-performance-pisa.htm

Yes, it could be better. But it could also be a lot worse. in fact, nearly all western countries score about the same for PISA. The scores are more similar than different. Let's just be happy we're not Turkey or Israel.

Tammuz said:
Ehm, you think our public debate is sane?:eek:
Click to expand...

Too long and boring. Listened to the first minute. I'm not sure what your point is?
 
fromderinside said:
DrZoidberg said:
"Hyrestaket". Rent control is idiotic. It has never worked in any city it has been implemented. It's a money-for-nothing law where house builders are supposed to build houses out of generosity, rather than for profit. It's retarded.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Berkeley and Santa Monica are wastelands/Oops
Click to expand...

I never claimed it turns cities into wastelands. There are regulations that could be better or worse. Rent controls do not fix the problem they're designed to fix. Rent control has always been a short term solution when it is implemented. But it always leads to a drop-off in new building projects. It moves production to other types of houses that aren't rent controlled. It just creates pointless weirdness and asymmetry in the market without adding any benefit to anybody. Just makes it a head-ache to find a place to live. Cities without rent control don't have that problem.
 
DrZoidberg said:
fromderinside said:
Yeah. Berkeley and Santa Monica are wastelands/Oops
Click to expand...

I never claimed it turns cities into wastelands. There are regulations that could be better or worse. Rent controls do not fix the problem they're designed to fix. Rent control has always been a short term solution when it is implemented. But it always leads to a drop-off in new building projects. It moves production to other types of houses that aren't rent controlled. It just creates pointless weirdness and asymmetry in the market without adding any benefit to anybody. Just makes it a head-ache to find a place to live. Cities without rent control don't have that problem.
Click to expand...

It depends. New York has had RC since WWII, tho the system is shrinking. Here it's still a housing emergency, with something like 2% vacancy. Without it, no middle or lower income people could live in Manhattan. Real estate is the number one investment here, and the landlord lobby is very powerful.
 
Horatio Parker said:
DrZoidberg said:
I never claimed it turns cities into wastelands. There are regulations that could be better or worse. Rent controls do not fix the problem they're designed to fix. Rent control has always been a short term solution when it is implemented. But it always leads to a drop-off in new building projects. It moves production to other types of houses that aren't rent controlled. It just creates pointless weirdness and asymmetry in the market without adding any benefit to anybody. Just makes it a head-ache to find a place to live. Cities without rent control don't have that problem.
Click to expand...

It depends. New York has had RC since WWII, tho the system is shrinking. Here it's still a housing emergency, with something like 2% vacancy. Without it, no middle or lower income people could live in Manhattan. Real estate is the number one investment here, and the landlord lobby is very powerful.
Click to expand...

New York is the poster-child for the dysfunctionality of rent-control, with key money being standard when moving in. Why should we create a system where people who can't afford the actual value of a thing get it for less so they can afford it? The geography of a flat has actual value. Cities without rent-control are more dynamic. People more around more. They develop different centers depending on what jobs you have. Yes, the poor get the shittest apartment in the worst geographical areas, but that's mostly true in a rent-controlled system as well. The poor can't pay required money under the table.

I live in a rent controlled flat in the centre of Stockholm. I had to pay 300 000 SEK (35 000 USD) to the previous tenants to get the contract. That is standard in Stockholm. I'm not poor. Not at all.

I'd argue that rent control does nothing for equality. If a commodity has limited availability people are going to pay what it's worth, one way or another. Every system with rent control has figured out ways around it for people to pay what a flat is worth anyway.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Horatio Parker said:
It depends. New York has had RC since WWII, tho the system is shrinking. Here it's still a housing emergency, with something like 2% vacancy. Without it, no middle or lower income people could live in Manhattan. Real estate is the number one investment here, and the landlord lobby is very powerful.
Click to expand...

New York is the poster-child for the dysfunctionality of rent-control, with key money being standard when moving in. Why should we create a system where people who can't afford the actual value of a thing get it for less so they can afford it? The geography of a flat has actual value. Cities without rent-control are more dynamic. People more around more. They develop different centers depending on what jobs you have. Yes, the poor get the shittest apartment in the worst geographical areas, but that's mostly true in a rent-controlled system as well. The poor can't pay required money under the table.

I live in a rent controlled flat in the centre of Stockholm. I had to pay 300 000 SEK (35 000 USD) to the previous tenants to get the contract. That is standard in Stockholm. I'm not poor. Not at all.

I'd argue that rent control does nothing for equality. If a commodity has limited availability people are going to pay what it's worth, one way or another. Every system with rent control has figured out ways around it for people to pay what a flat is worth anyway.
Click to expand...

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

I've lived here for 30 years, and granted I'm on the lower end of the socio-economic scale, but I've never paid key money, and don't know anyone who has, except one friend who once slipped a super $50 to take over a studio(and on 31st st and Brdwy).

You may be confused over rent control and rent stabilization. There are very few apts left in full RC. I would expect key money to be common in those situations, because those rents are very low. OTOH, they would pretty much all be scamming, because technically RC apts can only legally go to family members.

There's plenty of construction going on, and it's quite a dynamic place. I suggest picking another poster child.
 
Horatio Parker said:
DrZoidberg said:
New York is the poster-child for the dysfunctionality of rent-control, with key money being standard when moving in. Why should we create a system where people who can't afford the actual value of a thing get it for less so they can afford it? The geography of a flat has actual value. Cities without rent-control are more dynamic. People more around more. They develop different centers depending on what jobs you have. Yes, the poor get the shittest apartment in the worst geographical areas, but that's mostly true in a rent-controlled system as well. The poor can't pay required money under the table.

I live in a rent controlled flat in the centre of Stockholm. I had to pay 300 000 SEK (35 000 USD) to the previous tenants to get the contract. That is standard in Stockholm. I'm not poor. Not at all.

I'd argue that rent control does nothing for equality. If a commodity has limited availability people are going to pay what it's worth, one way or another. Every system with rent control has figured out ways around it for people to pay what a flat is worth anyway.
Click to expand...

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

I've lived here for 30 years, and granted I'm on the lower end of the socio-economic scale, but I've never paid key money, and don't know anyone who has, except one friend who once slipped a super $50 to take over a studio(and on 31st st and Brdwy).

You may be confused over rent control and rent stabilization. There are very few apts left in full RC. I would expect key money to be common in those situations, because those rents are very low. OTOH, they would pretty much all be scamming, because technically RC apts can only legally go to family members.

There's plenty of construction going on, and it's quite a dynamic place. I suggest picking another poster child.
Click to expand...

Hmm... seems like you're right. I may have confused the dates of it. They did have rent control in New York and then they stopped because it sucked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_control_in_New_York

But even so, rent stabilisation incentivises people not to move. That's not good. Seems to be a mess of things in general.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom