Can you answer the most fundamental question about time?

[fast]

So what are units on frisbee scale of time? Remember it has to compensate for all change of direction over interval.

I don’t understand your question.

 

[steve_bank]

Space exists and meters are units of measure of space.

Objects change position in space, time as in seconds, is a measure of change.

What is evidence that time is a 'dimension' unto itself?

Fast appears to be on the woo woo choo choo. All aboard. Now departing track 9.

The second is an identity, lok it up on the net. The second is defined as the period for a number of particles radiated from a radioactive substance. A simple description. A pile of radioactive material. Use a particle detector to count particles. When it reaches a count that is the reference period. It is more complicated but that is it.

Duration of time is measured by clocks, mechanical or electrical.

Someone starts running around a track and starts a stopwatch. After one lap he stops the stopwatch. He has traversed space of xx meters in tt time in seconds for a velocity in xxmeters/tt seconds. Time and space are arbitrary units. What is the 'time dimension;' when the runner is moving? It is ticks on a clock, Distance is ticks on a meter stick.

 

[fast]

Space exists and meters are units of measure of space.

Yeah, and seconds is to time as a meter is to length. Length is a dimension (a spacial dimension) whereas time is also a dimension (but rather a temporal dimension).

Take two rocks and place them a meter apart. Then, destroy all forms of manmade measurement, and then rid the world of man. Finally, erase all historical records. The distance between the rocks remain. Take away the rocks, and the distance between where they used to be doesn’t change. That unit of measurement that refers to a particular distance is a segment of length.

It’s like the intangible number lines of the world. Science uses the perfect tool, language of math, to map the universe and all it holds, and all I’m asking is to mentally separate the concrete from the abstract.

An idea is abstract, and through abstraction, we can conceive of and grasp an idea, but when what an idea is an idea of isn’t concrete, it’s merely abstract, yet not an abstraction. Dimensions are abstract, but they are not themselves an abstraction; it’s through abstraction we grasp the idea of a dimension.

Mental concept of a dimension: abstract (requires abstraction)
A dimension: abstract (doesn’t require abstraction)

Concept of a dimension: (mind dependent)
Dimension: (mind independent)

Concept of length: a mind is required
Length: no mind needed

 

[steve_bank]

Space exists and meters are units of measure of space.

Yeah, and seconds is to time as a meter is to length. Length is a dimension (a spacial dimension) whereas time is also a dimension (but rather a temporal dimension).

Take two rocks and place them a meter apart. Then, destroy all forms of manmade measurement, and then rid the world of man. Finally, erase all historical records. The distance between the rocks remain. Take away the rocks, and the distance between where they used to be doesn’t change. That unit of measurement that refers to a particular distance is a segment of length.

It’s like the intangible number lines of the world. Science uses the perfect tool, language of math, to map the universe and all it holds, and all I’m asking is to mentally separate the concrete from the abstract.

An idea is abstract, and through abstraction, we can conceive of and grasp an idea, but when what an idea is an idea of isn’t concrete, it’s merely abstract, yet not an abstraction. Dimensions are abstract, but they are not themselves an abstraction; it’s through abstraction we grasp the idea of a dimension.

Mental concept of a dimension: abstract (requires abstraction)
A dimension: abstract (doesn’t require abstraction)

Concept of a dimension: (mind dependent)
Dimension: (mind independent)

Concept of length: a mind is required
Length: no mind needed

Huh? Sounds like somebody needs a time out. Jabberwocky to me. Have n idea what the point is.

 

[fromderinside]

So what are units on frisbee scale of time? Remember it has to compensate for all change of direction over interval.

I don’t understand your question.

Try relating time relative to frisbee trajectories (space) only. You need to specify the gravity field in which you launch it.

 

[steve_bank]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time

Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in an apparently irreversible succession from the past, through the present, to the future.[1][2][3] Time is a component quantity of various measurements used to sequence events, to compare the duration of events or the intervals between them, and to quantify rates of change of quantities in material reality or in the conscious experience.[4][5][6][7] Time is often referred to as a fourth dimension, along with three spatial dimensions.[8]

Time has long been an important subject of study in religion, philosophy, and science, but defining it in a manner applicable to all fields without circularity has consistently eluded scholars.[2][6][7][9][10][11] Nevertheless, diverse fields such as business, industry, sports, the sciences, and the performing arts all incorporate some notion of time into their respective measuring systems.[12][13][14]

Time in physics is unambiguously operationally defined as "what a clock reads".[6][15][16] See Units of Time. Time is one of the seven fundamental physical quantities in both the International System of Units and International System of Quantities. Time is used to define other quantities – such as velocity – so defining time in terms of such quantities would result in circularity of definition.[17] An operational definition of time, wherein one says that observing a certain number of repetitions of one or another standard cyclical event (such as the passage of a free-swinging pendulum) constitutes one standard unit such as the second, is highly useful in the conduct of both advanced experiments and everyday affairs of life. The operational definition leaves aside the question whether there is something called time, apart from the counting activity just mentioned, that flows and that can be measured. Investigations of a single continuum called spacetime bring questions about space into questions about time, questions that have their roots in the works of early students of natural philosophy.

Temporal measurement has occupied scientists and technologists, and was a prime motivation in navigation and astronomy. Periodic events and periodic motion have long served as standards for units of time. Examples include the apparent motion of the sun across the sky, the phases of the moon, the swing of a pendulum, and the beat of a heart. Currently, the international unit of time, the second, is defined by measuring the electronic transition frequency of caesium atoms (see below). Time is also of significant social importance, having economic value ("time is money") as well as personal value, due to an awareness of the limited time in each day and in human life spans:

Time perception

Philosopher and psychologist William James
Main article: Time perception
The specious present refers to the time duration wherein one's perceptions are considered to be in the present. The experienced present is said to be 'specious' in that, unlike the objective present, it is an interval and not a durationless instant. The term specious present was first introduced by the psychologist E.R. Clay, and later developed by William James.[86]

Biopsychology
The brain's judgment of time is known to be a highly distributed system, including at least the cerebral cortex, cerebellum and basal ganglia as its components. One particular component, the suprachiasmatic nuclei, is responsible for the circadian (or daily) rhythm, while other cell clusters appear capable of shorter-range (ultradian) timekeeping.

Psychoactive drugs can impair the judgment of time. Stimulants can lead both humans and rats to overestimate time intervals,[87][88] while depressants can have the opposite effect.[89] The level of activity in the brain of neurotransmitters such as dopamine and norepinephrine may be the reason for this.[90] Such chemicals will either excite or inhibit the firing of neurons in the brain, with a greater firing rate allowing the brain to register the occurrence of more events within a given interval (speed up time) and a decreased firing rate reducing the brain's capacity to distinguish events occurring within a given interval (slow down time).[91]

Mental chronometry is the use of response time in perceptual-motor tasks to infer the content, duration, and temporal sequencing of cognitive operations.

Development of awareness and understanding of time in children
Children's expanding cognitive abilities allow them to understand time more clearly. Two- and three-year-olds' understanding of time is mainly limited to "now and not now." Five- and six-year-olds can grasp the ideas of past, present, and future. Seven- to ten-year-olds can use clocks and calendars.[92]

Alterations
In addition to psychoactive drugs, judgments of time can be altered by temporal illusions (like the kappa effect),[93] age,[94] and hypnosis.[95] The sense of time is impaired in some people with neurological diseases such as Parkinson's disease and attention deficit disorder.

Psychologists assert that time seems to go faster with age, but the literature on this age-related perception of time remains controversial.[96] Those who support this notion argue that young people, having more excitatory neurotransmitters, are able to cope with faster external events.[91]

 

[jab]

This is the most fundamental question concerning time:

If time doesn't exist as such, if the only reality of time is to be a mere convention, a convenience to ensure the necessary synchronisation of our activities across society, including the synchronisation of our machines and of our scientific instruments, then how is it at all possible to durably synchronise different clocks, among other things? Assuming a number of clocks are set to read the same as some master clock, and assuming time doesn't exist, why would the clocks stay synchronised at all?
EB

Not the most fundamental question for at least 2 reason.
2 questions are posed,
Altogether too many ifs and assumings for the question to be fundamental.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

This is the most fundamental question concerning time:

If time doesn't exist as such, if the only reality of time is to be a mere convention, a convenience to ensure the necessary synchronisation of our activities across society, including the synchronisation of our machines and of our scientific instruments, then how is it at all possible to durably synchronise different clocks, among other things? Assuming a number of clocks are set to read the same as some master clock, and assuming time doesn't exist, why would the clocks stay synchronised at all?
EB

I simply don't have the time to give a fuck about the synchronisation of societal instruments of wealth extraction or eurocentric impulses of controlling others through meticulously synchronised clocks via which we are all to stay "on schedule".

 

[Playball40]

Ouch.

We observe change. The moon, animals. Today time is clock ticks to measure chage and relative motion.

in physics

s = distance in meters
v = velocity
a = acceleration or rate of chime of velocity
t = time in seconds
d is calculus notation for change or a delta

s = distance
v = ds/dt meters per second
a = dv/dt

Distance, velocity, and accretion define how change is measured to a reference point. All based on the SI second and meter.

Outside of that objectivwe feinition you gave to explitly define what you mean by time.

It makes more sense in discussion to say change instead of time because time has a specific scientific definition. Instead of 'time travel' say is it possibly to travel to future changes or past changes.

Psychology time is subjective ad passage of time as we experience it varies with our emotional stae and the state of our brain chemistry.

'It has been a long day' means subjectively time passed slowly. 'Time flies when you are having fun' means time seems to pass too quickly when having a good time.

Scientifically time is a dimensions as is three special dimensions in meters. Dominion here means a unit of measure, not a scifi multi dimensional reality. Time is not a reality, it is a unit of measure.

I'd say science has supersede any metaphysical discussion about time along with psychology and neuro science as to subjective experience of rate of change.

The word time is a loaded word.

Before you start talking using the word time define precisely what you mean, otherwise you are just babbling.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Ouch.

We observe change. The moon, animals. Today time is clock ticks to measure chage and relative motion.

in physics

s = distance in meters
v = velocity
a = acceleration or rate of chime of velocity
t = time in seconds
d is calculus notation for change or a delta

s = distance
v = ds/dt meters per second
a = dv/dt

Distance, velocity, and accretion define how change is measured to a reference point. All based on the SI second and meter.

Outside of that objectivwe feinition you gave to explitly define what you mean by time.

It makes more sense in discussion to say change instead of time because time has a specific scientific definition. Instead of 'time travel' say is it possibly to travel to future changes or past changes.

Psychology time is subjective ad passage of time as we experience it varies with our emotional stae and the state of our brain chemistry.

'It has been a long day' means subjectively time passed slowly. 'Time flies when you are having fun' means time seems to pass too quickly when having a good time.

Scientifically time is a dimensions as is three special dimensions in meters. Dominion here means a unit of measure, not a scifi multi dimensional reality. Time is not a reality, it is a unit of measure.

I'd say science has supersede any metaphysical discussion about time along with psychology and neuro science as to subjective experience of rate of change.

The word time is a loaded word.

Before you start talking using the word time define precisely what you mean, otherwise you are just babbling.

What was it Einstein said?

 

[steve_bank]

Uncle Al said a lot, in general he said everything is relative inclosing time. The fact that time was relative and not fixed across interval frames was a philosophical as well as a scientific bombshell. Most today do not realize how big it was. It was shocking to many.

Don't know why people have such philosophical problems with time refusing to recognize the obvious and trying to find some deep truth.

Time is events tied to reference points. Meet me here after the second sunrise from now, or meet me here 48 hours from now. Time is duration between events.

Reference points to meaure duration
Sun,
Moon
Water Clocks
Sand Clocks
Mechanical Clocks
Electronic Clocks
Atomic Clocks
Sidewall time, duration between objects position in the sky repeating.



Accident structures gave a signal when it was time to plant crops. Sunlight passing through a slit illuminating a spot on only one day of the year.

 

[fromderinside]

We do not perceive moment by moment, that is a subjective emotional view.

Our brans (sic) continuously respond to stimulus. Like a computer our brains have a processing latency, response always lags behind stimulus.

Yeah, but is the brain more or less behind an acoustic stimulus than it is behind a photic stimulus or a mechanical stimulus or an olfactory stimulus. What about whether these stimuli had they been initiated simultaneously be appreciated simultaneously? huh, huh, huh?

Then there's what about time's arrow? There might be an argument about space's arrow, expanding, or whether there is a counter force, repulsion of matter, but is there an argument about whether there is a force counter to time? Or is it the case that time and space reflect counter conditions (forward and expansion).

 

[steve_bank]

If you want to be technical we never perceive in real time. The finite speed of light and relativity defines that. Add to thyat the neural processing time.

We are always behind events.

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

Time is the movement of quarks on a grid. The minimum distance is the hodon. The minimum time is the chronon. Quarks make up matter. No matter, no time.

Eldarion Lathria

 

[aupmanyav]

The moon persists even if humans never lived. The meter is a human concept that dies when humans do.

Yeah, not Moon, but that lump of molecules that we call Moon.

 

[fromderinside]

Time is a relative of mine.... and yours.... which we need to get us to a moment from now else .... no more time for us.

 

[DBT]

Then we have Wheeler's retrocausal observer created universe where time loops back on itself.

 

[fromderinside]

We? Mouse in pocket?

 

[DBT]

We? Mouse in pocket?

Yeah, I'm not endorsing the idea or arguing for it, just looking at it as a curiosity;

Quote:
''Wheeler suggested that reality is created by observers and that: “no phenomenon is a real phenomenon until it is an observed phenomenon.” He coined the term “Participatory Anthropic Principle” (PAP) from the Greek “anthropos”, or human. He went further to suggest that “we are participants in bringing into being not only the near and here, but the far away and long ago.” [Reference: Radio Interview With Martin Redfern]

This claim was considered rather outlandish until his thought experiment, known as the “delayed-choice experiment,” was tested in a laboratory in 1984. This experiment was a variation on the famous “double-slit experiment” in which the dual nature of light was exposed (depending on how the experiment was measured and observed, the light behaved like a particle (a photon) or like a wave).

Unlike the original “double-slit experiment”, in Wheeler’s version, the method of detection was changed AFTER a photon had passed the double slit. The experiment showed that the path of the photon was not fixed until the physicists made their measurements. The results of this experiment, as well as another conducted in 2007, proved what Wheeler had always suspected – observers’ consciousness is required to bring the universe into existence. This means that a pre-life Earth would have existed in an undetermined state, and a pre-life universe could only exist retroactively.''

 

[ruby sparks]

If you want to be technical we never perceive in real time. The finite speed of light and relativity defines that. Add to thyat the neural processing time.

We are always behind events.

And the various routes the inputs take to reach the brain mean that they arrive at different times, but I read that our brain 'tampers' with the conscious perception of the inputs, so that they all feel as if they happen at the same time. So if you hit the tip of your shoe with a stick, you see it, feel it and hear it at the same 'time' even though the news arrived in 3 ways at different times.

Then there's the flash-lag effect, for which one explanation (it's not fully explained) is that we see the moving dot ahead of the static one because our conscious perception of the moving dot is actually a prediction of where it will be rather than where it is. If true, that would make us early rather than late, for some things.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Flash_lag.gif